JonathanL Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Dennis - for someone who purports to support clay shooting, you have a very odd way of showing it. You criticise:- Pump-action users. Semi-automatic users. Straw bale shooters. Straw bale shooting ground owners. People who buy guns and have the nerve to inquire about shooting lessons. Shooters who haven't taken any courses. People from Haverhill. Shooters who don't belong to the CPSA. Shooters who hit women - but then again you did your best to sort that one. Not that it ever got sorted. Anyone who disagrees with you. Is there anyone who you do like - yourself aside? A bit of double standards here Dennis. You happily drink with people who are very drunk, but are happy to let them shoot the day after. No doubt you complained again. You don't seem very effective in your complaints. As for seeing numerous accidents at a club, you remained a member. You seem bent on destroying the very sport you claim to support. I question your motives. You may say it is to improve things. Forgive me - I see it the opposite way. Agreed totally with this. To be honest, I'm having trouble believing a lot of what Dennis comes out with. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 I have to say I can remember quite a few Sunday morning clay shoots in the past where people have turned up nursing enormous hangovers and looking like they have had a couple of hours kip at best. Nobody seemed to think it all that remarkable at the time. Hopefully it wouldn't happen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 The point being that the evidence suggests that it was many hours since he last drank. To get to three times the limit is one thing but the fact that he was three times the limit even though he hadn't drunk anything for hours suggests that he had consumed a very large amount. My description of how a roadside breath test is carried out is pretty accurate. Google it. The police can pull his cert if he has one. Perhaps they already have? Nothing to stop him from turning up at a clay ground and shooting though. However, one would hope, and expect, that he would be turned away if he turned up stinking of drink. J. I don't need to Google it - I do it for a living. That was my point - he does not need to be a cert holder. I would like to think he would be turned away but clearly wasn't on this occasion. The subsequent post where you ask what my point in was for Bedwards who didn't consider that non cert holders could shoot so would not prevent this loon from going again. I think I quoted him ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 saying that, i critisise people from haverhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDread Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Assuming the report is correct you cannot possibly legislate for this kind of muppet. He broke every rule in the book. As a shooter how does both competitions and straw bale shoots I feel I am obligated to point out to other shooters any action they are doing that makes me feel unsafe wether they like it or not. Accidents do not happen they are caused. My only thoughts on this is someone who is 3 times over the limit is definitely going to smell like they have had a drink and if you walked passed me I would be damn sure I pointed it out to the organiser. Safety always has to come first and we should all jump straight on anyone who is behaving in an unsafe manner. Had that been me he had shot sorry would not have been enough. No excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 The forensics say he had a faulty gun that could explain the unintended discharge. The rumours say he fled the scene and was breathalysed several hours later having got very drunk. The facts say he was not observing even basic safety awareness about where his gun was pointing. He was an experienced shooter at a ground he used regularly - thank God no-one was killed, I presume he will now be punished appropriately for his lack of muzzle awareness and the damage caused to three other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daks Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Id like to know if this guy retained hes SGC - I sure hope he didn't, I mean the fact no charges were brought forward makes you think, 101 Never point a gun - it's not difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I have to say I can remember quite a few Sunday morning clay shoots in the past where people have turned up nursing enormous hangovers and looking like they have had a couple of hours kip at best. Nobody seemed to think it all that remarkable at the time. Hopefully it wouldn't happen now. We used to have a sunday morning pub shoot and yes you'd get hungover people there but I can't ever remember it affecting anyones safety, even ****** as a newt it is fairly obvious you don't point the gun at anyone. This case either there is a lot more to it or he has got off incredibly lightly the general facts just don't add up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 This case either there is a lot more to it or he has got off incredibly lightly the general facts just don't add up though. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Id like to know if this guy retained hes SGC - I sure hope he didn't, I mean the fact no charges were brought forward makes you think, 101 Never point a gun - it's not difficult. Err, he was convicted of unlawful wounding. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daks Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Err, he was convicted of unlawful wounding. J. Yes he was, I guess in my mind the fact he walked from court just feels like he wasn't punished for such negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I don't think him walking free quite hacks it in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 The thing is though that we don't know the full details. It doesn't seem to suggest that he was anything other than merely negligent rather than having any criminal intent. That being the case, getting locked up was never on the cards, really. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniswebb Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I have been a member of the CPSA for 40 years, i almost only ever shoot registered shoots, but on the odd occasions i do shoot straw bale shoots, there is a cavalier attitude endemic in shoots such as these. It’s the reason that Sporting Shooters are treated poorly by some aspects of other shooting disciplines, sporting shooters do not get the respect of the shooting establishment because they are prone to incidents such as this. If you walked onto a registered shoot with a pump action shotgun, in all probability you would be told to leave. If you walked onto a shoot showing signs of drunkenness and continued to shoot you could be suspended or kicked out of the CPSA……There has to be self regulation in our sport, that the main reason the CPSA exists. BASC don’t want to get involved in that area although I suspect in the future they will have to. I have nothing against straw bales shoots and those that take part, it’s the nursery area for the whole of shooting and something to be encouraged, but there has to be standards to protect our whole sport, there has to be an induction process into the sport that involves some measure of competence before you are given a gun. Its far better if our existing organisations run such schemes rather than some government quango, that is why there are moves afoot for this to happen. My E Petition and letter to Downing Street was just anticipating what has to happen to preserve the future of our sport . Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) He hasn't walked free. He was found guilty and the Judge adjourned for a month for reports. He will be back next month for sentencing. The victims have stated they have no wish for him to be jailed so presumably he won't go down. It would be interesting to know if he keeps his SGC which I suppose is a possibility even if a very very slim one! I can imagine that he might not want to keep it in the circumstances! Edited November 30, 2012 by SakoQuad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 If we thought a shooting buddy was suffering some form of mental anguish, i would like to think that one way or another, we would ensure he was no harm to himself or others. Should we not do the same if we think someone is unfit by drink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoQuad Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) I have been a member of the CPSA for 40 years, i almost only ever shoot registered shoots, but on the odd occasions i do shoot straw bale shoots, there is a cavalier attitude endemic in shoots such as these. It’s the reason that Sporting Shooters are treated poorly by some aspects of other shooting disciplines, sporting shooters do not get the respect of the shooting establishment because they are prone to incidents such as this. If you walked onto a registered shoot with a pump action shotgun, in all probability you would be told to leave. If you walked onto a shoot showing signs of drunkenness and continued to shoot you could be suspended or kicked out of the CPSA……There has to be self regulation in our sport, that the main reason the CPSA exists. BASC don’t want to get involved in that area although I suspect in the future they will have to. I have nothing against straw bales shoots and those that take part, it’s the nursery area for the whole of shooting and something to be encouraged, but there has to be standards to protect our whole sport, there has to be an induction process into the sport that involves some measure of competence before you are given a gun. Its far better if our existing organisations run such schemes rather than some government quango, that is why there are moves afoot for this to happen. My E Petition and letter to Downing Street was just anticipating what has to happen to preserve the future of our sport . Dennis This wasn't a straw bale shoot and the evidence provided was that he was hungover (I understood he had opportunity to drink again prior to being breathalysed) so most of what you are implying above is irrelevant to this case. I'd be interested to see the figures and evidence that "sporting shooters are prone to incidents such as these". Edited November 30, 2012 by SakoQuad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I have been a member of the CPSA for 40 years, i almost only ever shoot registered shoots, but on the odd occasions i do shoot straw bale shoots, there is a cavalier attitude endemic in shoots such as these. It’s the reason that Sporting Shooters are treated poorly by some aspects of other shooting disciplines, sporting shooters do not get the respect of the shooting establishment because they are prone to incidents such as this. If you walked onto a registered shoot with a pump action shotgun, in all probability you would be told to leave. If you walked onto a shoot showing signs of drunkenness and continued to shoot you could be suspended or kicked out of the CPSA……There has to be self regulation in our sport, that the main reason the CPSA exists. BASC don’t want to get involved in that area although I suspect in the future they will have to. I have nothing against straw bales shoots and those that take part, it’s the nursery area for the whole of shooting and something to be encouraged, but there has to be standards to protect our whole sport, there has to be an induction process into the sport that involves some measure of competence before you are given a gun. Its far better if our existing organisations run such schemes rather than some government quango, that is why there are moves afoot for this to happen. My E Petition and letter to Downing Street was just anticipating what has to happen to preserve the future of our sport . Dennis I'm sure the e petition will expire soon and all the madness contained within will be forgotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Dennis - providing statistics to back up his rantings. Perish the thought. :lol: :lol: If anyone was thought to be drunk at a Registered shoot - Dennis would be there in a flash. If they had not attended any courses, didn't belong to the CPSA,lived in Haverhill or had a pump or semi auto - they would be given short shrift. However, if they had been getting blotto in Dennis' company the night before - perhaps a different story. :hmm: :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrQ Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I like to think that i would have been quite understanding.... If I were Mr, Wheeler, I would have shot the **** I can't quite believe just how understanding the victims are. One has umpteen pellets still inside him. I would want him jailed for a long time. The man was drunk, dangerous and still won't fully admit responsibility:- I can't quite believe just how understanding the victims are. One has umpteen pellets still inside him. I would want him jailed for a long time. The man was drunk, dangerous and still won't fully admit responsibility:- I like to think that i also would have been quite understanding.... If I were Mr Wheeler, I would have shot the **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Assuming the report is correct ...... Its the Daily Mail for **** sake! Of course it filled with inaccuracies and overblown tripe to make its sound worse than it is. lets not all get on the tub thumping band wagon. all manner of shooting accidents happen every year, I can't be ***** reading the tripe but no-where did I see it was his gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I really can't see what difference it makes who owns the gun. I don't care who owned the gun. This man was the idiot who was pointing it at people. If it was his own - he is responsible. If he borrowed it - he is still responsible. If he was drunk - he is a disgrace. If he was sober - he is a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I really can't see what difference it makes who owns the gun. I don't care who owned the gun. This man was the idiot who was pointing it at people. If it was his own - he is responsible. If he borrowed it - he is still responsible. If he was drunk - he is a disgrace. If he was sober - he is a disgrace. Well said Gordon, also the people around him are also in some way to blame too! if you were at a shoot and some one on the stand in front of you or stood waiting to shoot stank like a brewers apron would you say something? i know i would the last thing i woud like to see is some idiot who is drunk using a firearm of any sort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I have nothing against straw bales shoots and those that take part, it’s the nursery area for the whole of shooting and something to be encouraged, Yes you do, you said it yourself, you think they are a curse upon shooting or some such phrase. I don't care if you've been a CPSA member for 40 plus years, or that you only ever shoot registered shoots, or that you seem to think you have some part in changing the laws of this country. You have contradicted yourself and back tracked on your blatant attack on the grass roots of shooting, shown unprecedented snobbery to those who shoot at straw balers and those who shoot with gun you don't 'approve' of. In my books, you're no longer worth listening to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I think most people came to the same conclusion some time ago. Consistency is not really something which appears on Dennis' radar. He never, to my knowledge, backs up any argument with facts. He never answers a direct question, he contradicts himself, he merely flits in and out of debates, dispensing garbage with the ease of an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts