Wrestling with my conscience

[Daks]

It's a very personal matter, we all ratonalise and justify making a kill based on what we believe, at the core of it is a love for the sport. I mean you wouldn't think twice about making a kill if you were truly hungry, but the truth is you likely have a fridge full of food from tesco at home.

 

Personally at this point in my life I don't have an issue with making a kill and the fact that you do just validates your skill set and experience. I like to think we all face this dilemma at some point, after all we are all human.

 

Interesting thread and an important subject.

[team tractor]

I used to shoot everything I could ( except garden birds obviously) all the time but if its not a clear shot I don't bother and I also have pleasure in watching a rabbit sitting their washing but that's called enjoying the countryside .

Our last rough shoot we had seen 6 pheasant but shot 4 as it leaves a few for future sport

[sitsinhedges]

You just got bored

[kent]

Yes, I do have these thoughts regards deer. I have killed a good number over the years, some were for the right reasons some were for the wrong reasons. I have done cull plans with the instruction similar to "if its brown its down" or "if its got a mouth shoot it" etc. I have also shot foxes in a vacuum area (like adjacent to a sewage works or other source of rich pickings) no other reason to kill than I could. Couldn't ever get the numbers down as I couldn't do all the outside areas, so talk of conservation or control was mute. If a Hunter don't respect his quarry and cannot justify the shot he shouldn't take it, however the current pay for the day or rent the cull systems that exist do not encourage the correct attitude. Many stalkers now look more towards the annual venison yield and paid days than they do the deer, this is wrong. Head shooting park deer is the knacker mans job- not that of a sportsman and certainly not one who is paying for the so called "privilege". I used to shoot with an old fowler who no longer shot geese- quoting the fact that they pair up for life and he had in his time exceeded his quota of the amount one man should shoot, I sort of wonder if this is the angle that Sir Peter Scott came from. With knowledge comes respect. Renew your ticket but stick to that which is justified and righteous.

[drone]

I used to go wildfowling a lot and quite successfully. Then I started going out with a guide in the .leven area. 1st time no geese then got more success. I have an old wc scott double ten and I got a right and left into a flock and took out to many I hung my gun up then (1988) . My youngest son wanted to go shooting so I joined the Folkestone and district club last year and find I can kill pigeons, just don't hit them all that often!

I also had no compunction with mallard, rabbits and squirrels so I guess it's a phase. I'm nearly 70 now and don't regret taking the break, I didn't let my certs lapse though and neither did I sell my guns. So I have a few hundred 10 and 12 magnums in lead that'll be used up on pigeons I guess.

[robbiep]

Very interesting reading all the posts here.

I've never really been into game shooting, for me it has almost always been vermin and pest control. I must have shot hundreds of magpies, jackdaws, crow, rabbits, pigeons, squirrels, and only ever 2 pheasants. Never taken a deer, though I would like to go on a proper scottish stalking day - if only to know what it is like, whether I enjoy the day enough to want to repeat it or not.

To be honest, I don't even think about the foxes I shoot - most of mine are dispatched in a cage trap at a range of 2 feet or less. To me, it's a necessity.

But then again, I own livestock. If I don't kill foxes, my chickens and lambs are at risk. Corvids its the same, especially with newborn lambs.

We all do what we feel we can justify to ourselves, if that is culling deer, then so be it. If you prefer to go out and just get grey squirrels, then I'm going to be the last person to criticise you for passing up a shot at a magpie.

 

You have to look in the mirror, and be happy with what looks back at you. That is all that matters

[Dekers]

Time has arrived to renew my Firearms Certificate. However, over the past few years I have stalked less and less and now find it increasingly difficult to take kill shots at deer. I have been stalking for the past 20 years and it has never been an issue until the last few years.

 

Anyone else been through the same emotion?? I wasn't expecting a test of my conscience at 46 years old!! :-(

 

Do you only have the one rifle?

 

If you have others then simply renew your Stalking rifle with the rest and decide over time, if not the decision can only be yours!

[Beretta06]

I have two rifles - .308 and .22lr for vermin. I have no intention of stopping shooting rabbits etc, just the deer. Also shoot pigeons, partridge, grouse, pheasants & ducks. No intention of giving up my shotguns, just the deer pricking at my conscience.

 

I had a mail from a PW member with a useful idea. I will get a couple of guys in to introduce to stalking, then they can cull the animals. I'm happy to have the ******* shot - we eat venison almost every week - so my wife wouldn't like me cutting off a source of good quality and free meat!! :-)

[Dekers]

I have two rifles - .308 and .22lr for vermin. I have no intention of stopping shooting rabbits etc, just the deer. Also shoot pigeons, partridge, grouse, pheasants & ducks. No intention of giving up my shotguns, just the deer pricking at my conscience.

 

I had a mail from a PW member with a useful idea. I will get a couple of guys in to introduce to stalking, then they can cull the animals. I'm happy to have the ******* shot - we eat venison almost every week - so my wife wouldn't like me cutting off a source of good quality and free meat!! :-)

 

Seems to me the answer is simple then, renew everything, it isn't going to cost anything more, and then you have 5 years to use or loose the .308.

[dadioles]

How nice to hear that there are other thoughtful sensitive people out there....

 

I too have often sat and watched something rather than shoot it - it gave me the pleasure of the moment - I let it go on its way. Nice.

[thepasty]

If it doesnt feel right anymore give it a miss, no biggy... I have no shame in saying I couldnt and wouldnt shoot a deer, same goes for fox, I have no issues or whatever with others doing it but persoanlly its not for me. Its normal to show compasion and emotion for other living creatures, I'm worried for the people that dont

 

I shoot to eat (I do all I can not to buy mass farmed meat), if I've got enough food for the time being I'll shoot some clays or the like... I will shoot non eating pest/vermin upon request from my farmer mate but thats part of the agreement between us, I help him he helps me.

 

When shooting I enjoy being out with nature just as much as the shooting part, more often than not what makes the day is what I didnt shoot e.g. I have a winter visitor in the form of a male Hen Harrier on my permission at the moment, never seen one before but I'm regularly seeing him at the moment, its awesome to watch him screaming around doing his thing.

[Greymaster]

Sounds like Deerhunter Syndrome. Best go to Vietnam and rescue your buddy from Russian Roulette for Kicks addiction.

[robbiep]

Just a random thought : the antis that are on here will probably be in shock that any of us have any sort of conscience, that we actually consider what we do.

 

Twice last week while I was out checking my fox traps I found myself within a few feet of a rabbit that was oblivious to me, hopping through the snow. The first one I just stood silently until it had gone by, about 4 feet away from me at the closest.

The second one I said 'hello' to, when it was about 6 feet away. It stopped, looked at me for about 5 seconds, then scarpered into the hedgerow.

 

Funny, but with snow on the ground, my vermin shooting list seems to shrink down further : greys, foxes and corvids. Foxes and corvids becaues it is absolutely necessary - like I would view fixing a fence as necessary. Greys because, like so many others, I hope to see the day when reds can re-colonise all of the UK.

[subsonicnat]

All sounds familiar,, Do you go on the marsh look at the sky, and forget what you are there for.?.

I have many times, or see the duck swerve to miss you in the fog, I have many views of things happening in my library in the head:

its what draws you back I think, not the actual killing of the animal or bird:

Proud of the blokes on here being able to put pen to paper so to speak, Old age will probably be the master in the end,

Not our consciences:

[ordnance]

I stoped shooting creatures years ago. I enjoyed shootings pigeons etc but when i got home the conscience kicked i started thinking what have i achieved today kill things that were doing me no harm. Eventually the excuses pest control vermin didn't work so i stopped. If i needed to shoot something to eat i would but i can go to Tesco instead.

Edited February 13, 2013 by ordnance

[thepasty]

If i needed to shoot something to eat i would but i can go to Tesco instead.

 

I have a clearer conscience shooting to eat (which is most of my shooting), by doing so I know where my food has come from and that it has lead a totally free life... I stopped eating mass farmed meat a few years back, my conscience wouldnt let me support what in some cases is animal cruelty.

Edited February 15, 2013 by thepasty

[Gilberts1989]

 

 

I have a clearer conscience shooting to eat (which is most of my shooting), by doing so I know where my food has come from and that it has lead a totally free life... I stopped eating mass farmed meat a few years back, my conscience wouldnt let me support what in some cases is animal cruelty.

 

Completely agree with you there. There is too many people these days that don't actually know how their food is raise, slaughtered and prepared for sale. It seams to be mostly people of my age group (23) that find eating fresh, organic, free range wild meat disgusting. It's funny seeing peoples faces when I tell people how much protein pigeon has got in it and how it should be 'gym food'

 

Lets hope that this horse meat scandal changes the way people choose their food and not processed frozen ****

[anser2]

I went through a period when I all but stopped shooting. My old gundog had died and I was unable to keep another for several years. So for me the magic had gone. During this time I got into bird ringing in a big way so I still got the enjoyment of watching wildlife and being out in the countryside , but when my partner insisted I got another dog ( it was going to have be a gundog ) the urge to shoot returned and even though I still spend a lot of time watching wildlife I enjoy it more when I have my dog and a gun under my arm.

 

As for shooting deer , I have had the chance ( my boss asked me to undertake deer control ) , but never felt the need to go deer stalking and rarely shoot any type of mammal. However from a conservation point of view deer are one of the bigest threats to woodland wildlife in this country , we have far too many and shooting females is the best method of exerting some control. The guy who does the stalking on my reserve once proudly said to me he had shot 17 stags one winter looked a bit crest fallen when i said thats a waste of time you would have done a lot more good shooting 17 hinds. If you are trying to control a herd you only need a couple of stags , but take the females out and you are taking a conservation measure that will have a real effect on the numbers and benifit the woodland ecology.

Edited February 15, 2013 by anser2

[andrewluke]

quite often when i'm out on the marsh and i hear a pack of geese coming towards me i think to myself "i hope they will pass out of range",strange but true!

 

 

andrew

[ordnance]

I have a clearer conscience shooting to eat (which is most of my shooting), by doing so I know where my food has come from and that it has lead a totally free life... I stopped eating mass farmed meat a few years back, my conscience wouldnt let me support what in some cases is animal cruelty.

 

Fair enough its a individual decision. The way i look at it is there is no need to shoot to eat so i would rather let them lead a totally free life without being shot.

[Gimlet]

I went through a period when I all but stopped shooting. My old gundog had died and I was unable to keep another for several years. So for me the magic had gone. During this time I got into bird ringing in a big way so I still got the enjoyment of watching wildlife and being out in the countryside , but when my partner insisted I got another dog ( it was going to have be a gundog ) the urge to shoot returned and even though I still spend a lot of time watching wildlife I enjoy it more when I have my dog and a gun under my arm.

 

As for shooting deer , I have had the chance ( my boss asked me to undertake deer control ) , but never felt the need to go deer stalking and rarely shoot any type of mammal. However from a conservation point of view deer are one of the bigest threats to woodland wildlife in this country , we have far too many and shooting females is the best method of exerting some control. The guy who does the stalking on my reserve once proudly said to me he had shot 17 stags one winter looked a bit crest fallen when i said thats a waste of time you would have done a lot more good shooting 17 hinds. If you are trying to control a herd you only need a couple of stags , but take the females out and you are taking a conservation measure that will have a real effect on the numbers and benifit the woodland ecology.

 

Hooray! Someone who gets it.

Its the same with rabbits. Some people feel guilty about shooting pregnant does, but its them you need to kill to control the population. Rabbits are the only species I would happily exterminate entirely if it were possible. They're natives to a more mediterranean climate where the scarcer availability of food naturally supresses numbers. Over here in our cool fertile climate they do terrible damage.

I visited an unihabited inshore island off the coast Harris once with a local ghillie I'd got friendly with. I was struck by the lush and varied flora. There were plants I hadn't seen before. I asked the ghillie if someone had planted it this way and he said no it was because there had never been rabbits on the island, ever. I've always wondered since what our landscape would look like without the rabbit. I never feel guilty about killing one species to give something else a chance, provided its cleanly done. The meat is an added bonus and I try never to let anything go to waste. Basically, you don't need to kid yourself about the rabbit or feel guilty: killing them humanely is doing a service to the balance of nature.

[ordnance]

Hooray! Someone who gets it.

Its the same with rabbits. Some people feel guilty about shooting pregnant does, but its them you need to kill to control the population. Rabbits are the only species I would happily exterminate entirely if it were possible.

 

So people shoot to control populations. Why does controlling the wildlife population concern shooters so much unless its affecting them. I have no problem with people shooting but stop all the bull about control as if they are responsible for wildlife control in the countryside. Be honest they like hunting and shooting animals birds etc.

[Reece]

Rabbits are the only species I would happily exterminate entirely if it were possible.

 

For me, there's a number of species which I would happily exterminate from the UK

 

I would definitely get rid of grey squirrels, american mink, american crayfish, etc. In other words, every alien invasive species which is seriously threatening wildlife.

[Gimlet]

So people shoot to control populations. Why does controlling the wildlife population concern shooters so much unless its affecting them. I have no problem with people shooting but stop all the bull about control as if they are responsible for wildlife control in the countryside. Be honest they like hunting and shooting animals birds etc.

 

Its not bull and it does effect me. I live on a farm where rabbits have done thousands of pounds worth of damage to crops and they wreck the botanical diversity of field margins, which are a last refuge for wild species amoung the monocultural fields needed to feed 65/70 million increasingly over weight people.

Before I started shooting this particular farm there had been a free-for-all. Numerous people roamed the farm having an unsystematic bang at more or less anything they happened to trip over or blunder into. Plenty of lead flew but no useful control took place and rabbits numbers were at epidemic proportions. Nothing grew under the hedges but nettles and dozens of acres of prime crops were lost to rabbits every year. The present owners put a stop to that. The farm was ferreted out and now I shoot an avaerage of 500 rabbits a year to keep it that way and when required the ferreters come back to mop up problem areas that can't be shot. The hedgrows are in better health than they have been for years. This winter I laid some which hopefully will be continued in future years. The collapse in rabbit numbers from disease and the abnormally wet conditions, if anything comes as a relief. 500 a year doesn't sound many, but when its a continual mopping up process those 500 are hard won. I'm quite glad to have the pressure off rather than disappointed by the lack of targets. I've had time instead to assess fox numbers. We have a couple of covies of wild grey partridge which the owners are very keen to encourage and protect. So I have been catching up on the fox control and I'm even trying to identify and leave the dominant dogs and shoot the rest rather than shoot indiscriminately. I'm probably whistling in the wind in that respect, but either way more of these scarce and vulnerable birds will survive because of my efforts.

Yes I do enjoy hunting. Its a genetic impulse which I am not ashamed of. But that is not the same thing as using animals for target practise. We are supposed to hunt our protein not rear it in barns. And if man survived by hunting alone as he should, there would not be 7 billion rapacious human beings devouring the Earth and causing by their very presence the mass extinction of other creatures and the landscape would revert to wilderness. If I could push a button and make that happen tomorrow I wouldn't hesitate for a second. But I can't, so I do my little bit to live as independantly as I can and to try and restore some semblance of balance and redress a tiny bit of the damage that we do with our interference. I enjoy it because it both satisfies the urge to hunt and does a little bit of good. I eat well out of it, I try to waste as little as possible, and if it wasn't for the risk of being stoned to death by fat angry vegetarian lesbians every time I showed my face in town, I'd even turn the fox skins into a hat.

[ordnance]

In other words, every alien invasive species which is seriously threatening wildlife.

 

The uk is full of them they are eating all the coarse fish and the odd swan.

Edited February 15, 2013 by ordnance