Why do airgun owners seem to think different laws apply?

[lewis2012]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting fed up of people with airguns poaching on land ( your permissions ) shooting tiny baby rabbits, leaving gates open etc? They seem to think that theyre able to just shoot anywhere and the same rules do not apply. All theyre doing is giving us fellow shooting enthusiasts a bad name to the land owners etc!

I know its not all airgun owners but a small majority but they seem to either be unaware of the country side code and to respect all land, livestock etc or they just dont care

What are your views on this all

Cheers

Lewis

[silver pigeon 3]

Like you said it is a small minority of airgun owners that do this, but it is a problem. This year i have twice had to shoot ducks that were swimming around and around in a circle on a lake on one of my permissions and both had airgun pellets in the lower neck.

I have seen the lads twice who i think did this but both times i have not manged to catch up with them. Personally i think air guns are too easy to get hold of and i can't see no reason why they shouldn't come under some kind of licence/register, i am not saying that it should be the same as SGC or FAC but something that would require a bit of effort and thought for people to get hold of them. The main problem with this is trying to apply it retrospectively to the airguns out there already.

[Mikaveli]

Like you said it is a small minority of airgun owners that do this, but it is a problem. This year i have twice had to shoot ducks that were swimming around and around in a circle on a lake on one of my permissions and both had airgun pellets in the lower neck.

I have seen the lads twice who i think did this but both times i have not manged to catch up with them. Personally i think air guns are too easy to get hold of and i can't see no reason why they shouldn't come under some kind of licence/register, i am not saying that it should be the same as SGC or FAC but something that would require a bit of effort and thought for people to get hold of them. The main problem with this is trying to apply it retrospectively to the airguns out there already.

 

Agreed - the few idiots with airguns give other airgunners (and shooters in general) a bad name.

 

Every time some plonker shoots a cat, that's another 'gun crime' statistic for the anti's.

[kent]

If .22 lr was off ticket it would be that they used, it was in the past. its just down to decent sentencing when detected, ticketing sounds good and a quick fix but will harm recruitment to shooting.

[woody walloper]

process thousands of pigeons a year get more withold air rifle pellet wounds than we do with shot wounds

[bikemad24]

it doesn't matter what hobby or interest you have there will always be idiots. Most times iv come across airgun plonkers they been 14 -16 year old lads. im 29 and remember doing things that make me cringe now. The best thing in my opinion is to try and educate and help them understand what they can and cant do. we have all done things we shouldn't.

the worst hunter iv ever met was a bloke who had permission (to shoot his 223) at my mates 800 acre farm but not long after would bring his mates with him and there dogs! (lurches) they were told not to shoot the white rabbits because my mates wife likes looking at them, needless to say they were all shot. they just completely stripped the fields of anything they could catch or shoot. what the farmer thought would be one man and one gun turned out to be one big free for all. i don't think the farmer would give anyone permission again. and its a pity because hes one of the nicest farmers iv ever met. like i said good and bad in all.

[kiffy]

its unfortunate but i wouldnt target airgunners in particular, ok theres more issues with airguns as their licensing means anyone can have one but i see problems everywhere.. one that really bugs me and has done since before i got my sgc was old carts left hanging around.. for me its not the gun thats used but how its used... and theres idiots all round us

[Reece]

The number of these incidents is tiny compared to the number of airguns and airgunners out there, and It tends to be the poaching types who misuse them. There are plenty of existing laws to deal with incidents like this when enforced properly.

 

There's **** and gold in all walks of life.

[chrispti]

Caught 2 lads once, they didn't mean any harm, just wanted to shoot a few rabbits, like I did at their age.

 

Just explained things to them and the point that other shooters who have permission on that particular ground, may be out shooting one day, when they poke their heads through the headge!!!

 

Haven't seen them since.

[old rooster]

The number of these incidents is tiny compared to the number of airguns and airgunners out there, and It tends to be the poaching types who misuse them. There are plenty of existing laws to deal with incidents like this when enforced properly.

 

There's **** and gold in all walks of life.

 

Got to agree totally with this. Having owned and used air guns since I were a wee lad I'd hate to see more legislation forced upon us. I have a good collection of air rifles as well as my shotguns and use them for vermin control and teaching the kids basic gun use and safety.

 

The existing laws regarding the illegal use of these and any other guns should be enforced properly rather than introducing yet more in unenforceable ones.

[demonwolf444]

This annoys me a little because sooo many people go through such lengths to develop positive relationships with land owners and get our permissions. This isnt a problem on any of my permissions, however i experience a similar thing with dog men coursing for hares and rabbits without any authority to do so. Land near public foot paths is just too much of a temptation for owners of greyhounds, ive had a few conversations with people and you cant talk sense into them. "oh its in their nature" - yeh but not if they are on a lead or well trained. Stick to the paths, not the fields you have no right to be on. Get a propper lead instead of a slip lead.

 

There are plenty of already unenforceable laws regarding hunting/ shooting/ gun ownership and poaching, and if they were enforced as suggested i wonder how many people living in villages would be happy with police driving around all the lanes and "checking" fields, You can see why the laws are not enforceable, i think its our job whenever the oppertunity arises to explain the possible consequences to these people, and remind them that they have no right to be there, and that they are breaking the law.

 

I hope you find your poachers and can give them a friendly reminder of the law, If they are persistant, just call the police, i know noone wants to do it but its best not to get involved as far as is possible.

 

just my 2p's worth.

[oscarsdad]

This annoys me a little because sooo many people go through such lengths to develop positive relationships with land owners and get our permissions. This isnt a problem on any of my permissions, however i experience a similar thing with dog men coursing for hares and rabbits without any authority to do so. Land near public foot paths is just too much of a temptation for owners of greyhounds, ive had a few conversations with people and you cant talk sense into them. "oh its in their nature" - yeh but not if they are on a lead or well trained. Stick to the paths, not the fields you have no right to be on. Get a propper lead instead of a slip lead.

 

There are plenty of already unenforceable laws regarding hunting/ shooting/ gun ownership and poaching, and if they were enforced as suggested i wonder how many people living in villages would be happy with police driving around all the lanes and "checking" fields, You can see why the laws are not enforceable, i think its our job whenever the oppertunity arises to explain the possible consequences to these people, and remind them that they have no right to be there, and that they are breaking the law.

 

I hope you find your poachers and can give them a friendly reminder of the law, If they are persistant, just call the police, i know noone wants to do it but its best not to get involved as far as is possible.

 

just my 2p's worth.

 

Whilst I agree with your post, it is not very practical or sensible in many cases to try to educate ****** running their dogs on hare or deer. Especially if you have a rifle or shotgun with you...but then on the flip side, since they inhabit caravans the police are terrified of upsetting a "minority" group so may not be of any help.

[Cranfield]

Any comment on this subject can easily be misunderstood and I will state first that I have no anti airgunner feelings at all.

 

The fact that airguns can be obtained without a licence, suggests to some owners that they have no liabilities.

Their name and address is not held by the Police, nobody has had to sign a reference form, they have nothing to "lose" if caught offending.

The guns and ammunition are relatively cheap and there is a perception that airguns aren't dangerous.

 

The attitude of some airgunners is much the same as some bicycle riders (and for the same reasons).

 

I have frequently asked people with airguns to leave private property they had no right to be on and the, "its only an airgun" reply comes out every time.

Whilst some knew they were chancing their arm, others actually looked quite confused when told they could not just wander where they liked.

 

I think attitudes would change if airguns were subject to licence and penalties also brought up to SGC levels.

 

You will always get the criminal element poaching, running dogs, using FAC and SGC weapons and no doubt after licensing, you could add airguns to that list.

However, I believe it would create a different ethos and bring offending levels down dramatically.

[brian28]

Any comment on this subject can easily be misunderstood and I will state first that I have no anti airgunner feelings at all.

 

The fact that airguns can be obtained without a licence, suggests to some owners that they have no liabilities.

Their name and address is not held by the Police, nobody has had to sign a reference form, they have nothing to "lose" if caught offending.

The guns and ammunition are relatively cheap and there is a perception that airguns aren't dangerous.

 

The attitude of some airgunners is much the same as some bicycle riders (and for the same reasons).

 

I have frequently asked people with airguns to leave private property they had no right to be on and the, "its only an airgun" reply comes out every time.

Whilst some knew they were chancing their arm, others actually looked quite confused when told they could not just wander where they liked.

 

I think attitudes would change if airguns were subject to licence and penalties also brought up to SGC levels.

 

You will always get the criminal element poaching, running dogs, using FAC and SGC weapons and no doubt after licensing, you could add airguns to that list.

However, I believe it would create a different ethos and bring offending levels down dramatically.

The penaltys are there, if caught with an airgun you can be done for armed trespass with a firearm

[old rooster]

All any additional licensing will do is yet again add liability and inevitably cost to the genuine owners, there are enough air rifles out and about to make it impossible to round them all up so why would any additional legislation create a safer environment than the existing, largely unused legislation?

 

We don't live in an ideal world, there will always be the richard cranium element in society, adding more and more complex rools in a country already overburdened with them won't help one jot I'm afraid.

 

(Sorry Cranners, not a dig at you personally)

[VikingRebel]

To be fair its not just air rifles. I find plenty of used shotgun cartridges and .22lr shells around here in places where they ought not to be.

 

Licensing won't make a difference. Okay it might prevent a few who are merely ignorant of the laws, but it won't stop determined poachers. Licencing aiguns i think would do far more damage to shooting in the long term than the minority of rogue elements ever would.

[HDAV]

There does seem to be a very different "attitude" amongst certain groups you will always get the people who have no regard for the law. Just look at motoring issues on and off road, the people out shooting sub 12ft/lbs at anything that moves are likely the same sort of people who ride trials bikes over private land, along foot paths, throw fast food litter into hedges and generally abuse their freedom. The penalties are already there but dont act as a deterrent, i do think the tightening of commercial sellers is a good idea (if ratehr pointless) i saw a right couple of plonkers in a local RFD trying to buy an airgun a few years ago and the staff were nervous about them asking what they were going to be shooting at and where, to which they got very very vague answers. I saw the same plonkers 2 hours later walking out of a none RFD shop (random goods, army surplus, hardware etc) carrying an airgun in a cardboard box............ I would expect them to have been down the local boating lake that evening shooting at anything that stood still!

 

I don't feel licencing is the answer, education can only go so far. Some people just can't live within a civilised society (for a variety of reasons).

Edited March 23, 2013 by HDAV

[old rooster]

There does seem to be a very different "attitude" amongst certain groups you will always get the people who have no regard for the law. Just look at motoring issues on and off road, the people out shooting sub 12ft/lbs at anything that moves are likely the same sort of people who ride trials bikes over private land, along foot paths, throw fast food litter into hedges and generally abuse their freedom. The penalties are already there but dont act as a deterrent, i do think the tightening of commercial sellers is a good idea (if ratehr pointless) i saw a right couple of plonkers in a local RFD trying to buy an airgun a few years ago and the staff were nervous about them asking what they were going to be shooting at and where, to which they got very very vague answers. I saw the same plonkers 2 hours later walking out of a none RFD shop (random goods, army surplus, hardware etc) carrying an airgun in a cardboard box............ I would expect them to have been down the local boating lake that evening shooting at anything that stood still!

 

I don't feel licencing is the answer, education can only go so far. Some people just can't live within a civilised society (for a variety of reasons).

Pretty much sums it up, if the idiots you saw buying the air gun did indeed go to the local boating lake to shoot anything that stood still they would clearly be breaking several existing regulations.

[Reece]

As has been said, the existing laws are more than sufficient when enforced properly, and airgun offences are in significant decline due to enforcement of existing laws and education campaigns. Introducing more gun control to prevent misuse is like trying to solve drink driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Reece

[bruno22rf]

Walking on private land with an Airgun with a pellet in the breach,even if the gun is not cocked,is Tresspassing with a firearm so laws do exist,but so do speed limits on motorways and who,on this forum,has never gone over 70mph?There are,most likely,quite a few members on here who,in their younger days,strayed onto private land with an Airgun to pot a few bunnies,so this problem is by no means new.In my experience some landowners themselves are to blame when they let little jimmy,who happens to be a friends son,wander around their land with what is "only an air rifle"-not realising just how destructive a youngster can be when armed.But, on the other hand,I believe that for every single idiot with a puffgun there are very many dedicated Airgun users out there who take great pride in mastering the skills demanded in both marksmanship and fieldcraft to become a successful hunter with the rifles that they choose to use.

[demonwolf444]

 

Whilst I agree with your post, it is not very practical or sensible in many cases to try to educate ****** running their dogs on hare or deer. Especially if you have a rifle or shotgun with you...but then on the flip side, since they inhabit caravans the police are terrified of upsetting a "minority" group so may not be of any help.

There is truth in that. I try, ( dogs out of controll, most people will put it on a lead in embarrasment after a quiet word. ****** coursing will tell you where to go and as you say you cant educate them) if people persist and what they are doing is illegal ill call the police. Enforcement is key, but the question is really how?

Edited March 24, 2013 by demonwolf444

[Salop Matt]

Brining in licensing will only punish the responsible owners of air gunners ! And if they cant get hold of air weapons it would be the crosbows and cross bow pistols etc that we already see, failing that there will the retun usage of catapults and there are so many air rifles out there already it would be impossible to police !

 

Education is the key point here, or so i belive ! Although you will never stop the Diddy`s and the like of the traveller community !

[stubby]

its not only a case of airgun shooting on land without permission, but also, knowing the law,

those of us with shotguns and firearms cert's, tend to be a bit more knowledgeable on what we can or cant do,

my main gripe is shooting in the garden, some people seem to think that because an animal or bird is on the pest species list, then it can be shot anytime,anywhere, rather than understanding that ALL IS PROTECTED, but in certain circumstances were allowed to control them, firstly by non lethal means, and then if that has not worked, then lethal control

I've lost count on the amount of posts I see on here, telling of the wood pigeon shot from the garden/bird table, try and leave an informative reply, and get jumped on by the air gunners, you only have to look at my past posts,

I understand that air gunners are no different from cert holders in as much as they want to post about their antics, but where as a pigeon shooter with a shotgun, standing in a field can post pictures and tell of the days shooting, an air gunner needs to cover himself more by including a short description of why it was necessary to shoot that pigeon in the garden, ie health and safety reasons perhaps?, rather than thinking its not needed

[Reece]

some people seem to think that because an animal or bird is on the pest species list, then it can be shot anytime,anywhere, rather than understanding that ALL IS PROTECTED, but in certain circumstances were allowed to control them, firstly by non lethal means, and then if that has not worked, then lethal control

Good post, but I should point out that a lot of it only applies to birds. The thing about trying non lethal methods and using lethal methods if they fail is off the general license, which only covers birds.

All wild birds in the UK are protected, except for specific named birds such as those on the general licenses and game birds which can be shot during the season, although the latter doesn't really affect airgun shooting.

With mammals, it's the other way round - only specific named mammals are protected.

That means you can shoot grey squirrels, rabbits, etc as long as it is safe and you are not breaking any other laws. It's with birds like pigeons and crows where things are a bit awkward with the circumstances where you can and can't shoot.

[Phil9]

Like you said it is a small minority of airgun owners that do this, but it is a problem. This year i have twice had to shoot ducks that were swimming around and around in a circle on a lake on one of my permissions and both had airgun pellets in the lower neck.

I have seen the lads twice who i think did this but both times i have not manged to catch up with them. Personally i think air guns are too easy to get hold of and i can't see no reason why they shouldn't come under some kind of licence/register, i am not saying that it should be the same as SGC or FAC but something that would require a bit of effort and thought for people to get hold of them. The main problem with this is trying to apply it retrospectively to the airguns out there already.

 

I TOTALY AGREE JUST EARLYER THIS WEEK A LURCHER WAS FOUND IN MY HOME TOWN OV WIGAN THAT HAD BEEN SHOT 17 TIMES WITH AN AIRGUN THAT CAUSED IT TO HAVE A PUNCHERD LUNG AND A CRACKED LEG BONE,, LITTLE IDIOTS WHO DO THAT ARE GIVING US SAFE COMPETENT SHOOTERS A SERIOUS BAD NAME .