acupels .177 and woodies!

[Underdog]

I have a thousand of old acupels and tried them on woodies today but not done two well. Out of 6 birds only one dropped and me and the dog only managed to find two others. Then walking out I spy one stuck up a tree around 200yds away fro where he was shot!

.177 S200.

 

So, whats yer favourite pigeon pellet in 177?

 

U.

[oscarsdad]

Jsb exacts

[aga man]

air arms field are a good allround pellet. personally i use rws super h point but my s200 is in .22. i find my gun likes these pellets and is consistant with them.

with out teaching my granny to suck eggs pigeons generally won't drop unless they are head/neck shot with the air rifle

[Underdog]

air arms field are a good allround pellet. personally i use rws super h point but my s200 is in .22. i find my gun likes these pellets and is consistant with them.

with out teaching my granny to suck eggs pigeons generally won't drop unless they are head/neck shot with the air rifle

I agree about the not dropping instantly. Less than 50yds is ok but 200 or so is a bit of a pain.

 

 

I will have to check these JSB's out.

 

I was wondering about Bis' mags?

 

U.

[fenboy]

Pellet choice will make little difference , the accupel is a decent enough pellet but like any other needs putting in the right place to drop pigeons cleanly .

 

I only go for head / neck shots on pigeon , body shots leave too much room for error.

[Underdog]

Hmmm, maybe I need to adjust my ways !

 

I will do an autopsy tomorrow!

 

 

U.

[chrisjpainter]

As Fenboy said, get the placement right. If the pellets aren't going where they should, then change them. I had a lot of success with the Bis mags in my Air Arms S510 and it can pay to have a heavier pellet, particularly in breezy conditions, but the Daystate doesn't love em so much. If you want to try them, I've got a few left over though, so I can send you a tester packet of 30 or so to see how well they group in your gun.

[demonwolf444]

JSB exacts. Only drag the .177 out when it isnt too windy, also In my experience head or neck shots are usally always fatal, and if you miss you are unlikely to wound, aim small miss small and that. Im less selective with .22.

[IXI KARL IXI]

I find the acupels great in my pistol (cp99) but not so great in my HW97, in that I use JSB exacts. I was told its due to the skirts on the accupels.

[bruno22rf]

Some of the wiser guys are on the money here-dont blame the pellet.If the pellet shoots tight groups on paper and you are not dropping pigeons then you are not hitting them in the right place and need to reduce your range until you sort this out.With respect-this pellet and the S200 are a very capable combination so maybe the problem is closer to home?

[timmytree]

I use AA fields in 4.52 for my Prosport and S200.

The most accurate pellet is the only one to use so whatever groups best in your gun is the one to use.

As for where to hit a woodie for a clean kill? Yes in theory the brain shot should do it but realistically a woodies brain is a small target.

The area behind the eye is where the brain is and the brain is small!

I shoot a lot of pigeons with air rifles, sometimes over decoys, sometimes in sitty trees. I use different shots depending on where the bird is and how it's behaving.

Birds on the ground I try to take with a shot to the spine when they're facing away, headshots are ok at shorter range but birds tend to flap and leave feathers in your pattern, not good for incoming birds!

If the bird is facing me I'll go for neck if possible but never full on chest shots.

If the bird is in a tree I tend to go for the armpit, just below the wing, that pops a pellet into the engine room and most birds will just fall with wings still folded. Spine shots again will work but with the bird higher you'll need to aim lower down the back.

Again, chest shots generally don't work, a woodie has a very strong chest structure and will carry a pellet easily and then die later.

The last shot and one I rarely use is a bird very high, almost directly above you. A shot in the bum area or just forward between the legs will almost always drop a bird cleanly but placement has to be right. For that reason I rarely take these shots.

Regards

Tim

[NickB65]

In my HW100 I use JSB Exact 4.51 which are perfect. Head or body when I hit them they seem to drop there and then..... a chest shot near the shoulder does it for me every time.... just stay clear of the crop.

[secretagentmole]

I use Crosman Premier Ultra Magnums in .177 (Accupell 10.5 grains) in my BSA,

 

They work on woodies!

[shinybum]

I use AA fields in 4.52 for my Prosport and S200.

The most accurate pellet is the only one to use so whatever groups best in your gun is the one to use.

As for where to hit a woodie for a clean kill? Yes in theory the brain shot should do it but realistically a woodies brain is a small target.

The area behind the eye is where the brain is and the brain is small!

I shoot a lot of pigeons with air rifles, sometimes over decoys, sometimes in sitty trees. I use different shots depending on where the bird is and how it's behaving.

Birds on the ground I try to take with a shot to the spine when they're facing away, headshots are ok at shorter range but birds tend to flap and leave feathers in your pattern, not good for incoming birds!

If the bird is facing me I'll go for neck if possible but never full on chest shots.

If the bird is in a tree I tend to go for the armpit, just below the wing, that pops a pellet into the engine room and most birds will just fall with wings still folded. Spine shots again will work but with the bird higher you'll need to aim lower down the back.

Again, chest shots generally don't work, a woodie has a very strong chest structure and will carry a pellet easily and then die later.

The last shot and one I rarely use is a bird very high, almost directly above you. A shot in the bum area or just forward between the legs will almost always drop a bird cleanly but placement has to be right. For that reason I rarely take these shots.

Regards

Tim

my thoughts also, good advise

[Paul taylor]

Best advice I read was to know the anatomy of ur target. after looking under a woodies breast plate I was suprised how well the heart was protected right behind the centre of the breast plate and also how low in the body the lungs are, pretty much where the legs meet the body I now use this when looking at angle of shot, distance etc. Defo prefer shot from back though anywhere from head to half way down will kill clean

[Underdog]

Some excellent replies fellers, thankyou.

 

First, there is no issue with shot placement.

There is no lack in understanding the birds anatomy.

The grouping is fine.

Excellent photos too.

 

I did an autopsy of the bird that dropped and of the two I stumbled on.

 

All three were shot through the heart. The one that dropped was shot through the wing pinions too.

 

Interestingly I shot two rabbits also, one in the head and the other at 50yds or so through the neck. The pellet retrieved from the far side of the neck showed bone damage to the front only! The skirt is round. I believe these pellets are not tumbling or bumping up at all. Also they seem very hard!

 

Thanks for the offer of sample pellets chrisjpainter.

 

The JSB's sound interesting and I will have go get some.

 

Thanks fellers.

 

U.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Underdog

[aga man]

i know you are an experienced rifle shot. thats why i politly said about granny sucking eggs etc.

i use super h point pellets as they kill very well. granted i shoot more rabbits than pigeons, but i feel my pellets give more smack. i use empty 12g shells to find accuracy. this vid may be of some help. atb Aga man.

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/245594-acupels-177-and-woodies/?do=findComment&comment=2142650

not sureif it's let me upload so so fieldsports tv number 21 down the list.[ sometimes i hate computers].

.htm

Edited April 20, 2013 by aga man

[Underdog]

i know you are an experienced rifle shot. thats why i politly said about granny sucking eggs etc.

i use super h point pellets as they kill very well. granted i shoot more rabbits than pigeons, but i feel my pellets give more smack. i use empty 12g shells to find accuracy. this vid may be of some help. atb Aga man.

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/245594-acupels-177-and-woodies/?do=findComment&comment=2142650

not sureif it's let me upload so so fieldsports tv number 21 down the list.[ sometimes i hate computers].

It's ok Aga man, I am sure your pells are good.

I remember when I had a 177 a while back and I by the way love both cals' and with Bisley super fields they would mostly come straight down for the same shots made yesterday.

Superdomes did ok too and they were soft.

I do like signs of pellets wanting to tumble and mash up in game.

 

U.

[demonwolf444]

Heart shots will take longer to die. If the impact of the pellet doesnt disable it in any way ie take out a wing or some important nerves it probably wont drop, this is because;

While anything with a hole in its heart is effectively dead, the brain remains intact as will most of the nervous system, after being shot the pigeons response is probably going to be "fly away from whatever just hit me" and so with full gusto the pigeon will put the pedal to the metal. Following this it might feel lethargic, lay up in a tree untill its blood pressure finally drops to a fatal level and it falls from the tree dead. This sounds very drawn out but the likely hood is that this would happen very quickly, in under a minute or two.

 

The head or neck shot has the advantage of instantainioutly severing;

Nerves - Disabling the pigeon making it fall and most importantly not able to fly off wounded.

Blood supply to the brain - disabling the brain preventing it from flying off and also rapidly reducing blood pressure to fatal levels.

Brain - Taking out the ability to make any decisions, disabiling the pigeon, taking nerves and bloodsupply.

The benefit of this is that all this happenes in a matter of seconds not minutes and eliminates the margin for error that you might have with a heart shot.

 

This is why generally the prefered area to hit is the head.

Deformation of the pellet makes ZERO difference if the animal has a hole in its head.

 

My advice would be take head shots, and if your still hung up about pellets use jsb exacts because they are generally awesome, and i dont like crossman premier ( accupell rebranded ) either.

Edited April 21, 2013 by demonwolf444

[NIGHT SEARCHER]

My .177 BSA Super 10 bull barrel loves Bisley mags but for pigeons i use Bisley Premiers.

My .177 Logun Solo loves RWS Superdomes or Superfields but for pigeons and crows RWS Superpoints.

My .177 Daystate Huntsman FTR loves Verminpels very accurate but for pigeons and crows Bisley Premiers.

I have seen flat head. dome head. hollow points. literally bounce off a pigeons chest.

It is amazing what a pigeons chest will absorb it`s breast bone and breast just absorb a pellets kinetic energy.

I started using Bisley Premiers they are heavy at 11.57 gr and pointed and hit like a .22 cal and accurate.

So they have the weight and being pointed penetrate a pigeons chest no problem.

I also clean my barrels regular. And I use Napier Power Lube on my Pellets.

And all my guns are set around 11 ftlb to 11.8 ftlb.

 

Let`s not start on which pellets my .22 cal Rifles prefer.

 

Happy

Edited April 21, 2013 by NIGHT SEARCHER

[Underdog]

Heart shots will take longer to die. If the impact of the pellet doesnt disable it in any way ie take out a wing or some important nerves it probably wont drop, this is because;

While anything with a hole in its heart is effectively dead, the brain remains intact as will most of the nervous system, after being shot the pigeons response is probably going to be "fly away from whatever just hit me" and so with full gusto the pigeon will put the pedal to the metal. Following this it might feel lethargic, lay up in a tree untill its blood pressure finally drops to a fatal level and it falls from the tree dead. This sounds very drawn out but the likely hood is that this would happen very quickly, in under a minute or two.

 

The head or neck shot has the advantage of instantainioutly severing;

Nerves - Disabling the pigeon making it fall and most importantly not able to fly off wounded.

Blood supply to the brain - disabling the brain preventing it from flying off and also rapidly reducing blood pressure to fatal levels.

Brain - Taking out the ability to make any decisions, disabiling the pigeon, taking nerves and bloodsupply.

The benefit of this is that all this happenes in a matter of seconds not minutes and eliminates the margin for error that you might have with a heart shot.

 

This is why generally the prefered area to hit is the head.

Deformation of the pellet makes ZERO difference if the animal has a hole in its head.

 

My advice would be take head shots, and if your still hung up about pellets use jsb exacts because they are generally awesome, and i dont like crossman premier ( accupell rebranded ) either.

thanks, I wondered how it worked, and I will stop trying to get all hung up on pellets, sorry.

[NIGHT SEARCHER]

thanks, I wondered how it worked, and I will stop trying to get all hung up on pellets, sorry.

17 year old.

 

I take my hat off to you sir. Your cool.

 

I would be boiling and would have responded quite differently.

[demonwolf444]

My appologies if i came accross as an A hole.. It was not intended. You never know what people know, one guy i shoot with cant be told anything even when things go wrong.In my experience pcp's with decent barrels swallow up most decent pellets, so i was just trying to explain the rational behind taking a headshot.

 

 

Again appologies

 

James.

Edited April 21, 2013 by demonwolf444

[stoogey]

i tried soe mosquito's last time i went out, no probs at all out to 42yards.

[evo]

as was said earlier, experiment with different pellets till you find the right one for your rifle,once you have done this then you should not have a problem with dropping woodies,just as a point i never shoot live quarry beyond 40yrds eventho myself, my rifle and the pellets i use are more than capable of accurate shooting to 55yrds, i personally think the closer to your intended target you are, the more damage the pellet will do,

 

i use the jsb exacts but ONLY cos my rifle shoots very accurately with them, stick to 40yrds max and i think you,ll find 99% of everything you hit will drop like a stone

 

good luck with your hunting alb Evo