turbo33 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Theres much said about the hmr, laser accuracy, 5 shots in a 5p circle at 100 yards, cloverleafing at 100 yards, 165 yard head shots on rabbits.....easy etc,etc. What I would like to know is what the pw collective think is a reasonable grouping at say 100 yards in reasonably ideal field conditions. The reason I ask is I've had my CVZ455 hmr from new. Its had about 450 rounds through it and try as I might, I cannot get anywhere near the accuracy it seems others find easy to achieve. When new it was throwing shotgun type holes at the target, it was shocking!! This was with hornadays. I changed to remmingtons and the group tightened but was still pretty awful in my opinion. The best I could achieve was about a 4" group, but equally spread. I've tried 3 different scopes, and tonight I took the scope off my pinhole accurate FAC air and tried that. I took the remaining few remingtons and a couple of boxes of winchesters. I did further tests changing the mod thats on it, a wildcat whisper for a sak. There was a significant difference with the Sak, it opened the group right up!!! So Wildcat back on! The remingtons were all over the place. The winchesters, again, significantly different with tighter groups, but vstill un acceptable IMHO. I have tried it cleaned to within an inch of its life, and I mean clean. The groups were terrible until it had 40 or so shots though it then it settled down. And it wasn't because it was moving crud around inside the barrel.........it was CLEAN!! So tonight, winchesters, wildcat mod, perfect conditions, this is the best I could do using the truck door as a rest. The target has an inch centre for a measurement reference. I was as happy as you can be that all the shots were squeezed off at the bull, no snatches. Honest opinions and advice would be appreciated even if its confirmation that I'm a **** shot My next route is to get a someone else to see what they can do with the same combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Have you checked the barrel is free floating ? (common problem on a new cz ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Have you checked the barrel is free floating ? (common problem on a new cz ) Thanks for the re[ply. Yes BB, clearance all the way through with no tight spots even when its had a few through it and warm. I've checked the barrel to action grub screws.....they're tight. Its fast heading towards the transfer list as the Daystate FAC air shoots the nuts off it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 When i first got mine it grouped just like yours After a bit of sanding it was a bit better, but after fitting a new trigger spring and shim it was like a different gun The trigger kit was only about £13 or something and it honestly made a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 those getting 5 in a 5p circle at 100 yards i would guess are bench rest shooting for out in the field they will open up a bit more but that target you have is pretty poor if conditions were good so i would say there is something still wrong mate just my thoughts i am sure somone will soon be on to say they put 5 through the same hole free standing at 100 yards colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBS Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 That is a terrible group for hmr, I have cz455 and it shoots sub inch without concentrating if you bought it new I would suggest taking it back! Is it still that bad without a mod at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Have you tried it at 50yds to see how it groups.If it groups well at 50 yds it could be you just need more practice.I only ever zero off a bipod as that is what i use in the field. I do not expect to get 5 shots in a 5p circle at 100 yards, cloverleafing at 100 yards, 165 yard head shots on rabbits.....easy etc,etc. Not saying it cannot be done just do not believe that not everyone saying it can do it in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangey Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 try not cleaning the barrel.i havnt cleaned mine for over 300 rounds and its shooting better than ever and it wont get cleaned till it starts shooting off.also you need to set up on something better than car door,bags or rest to eliminate shooter error.i know most people say clean,clean,clean but that didnt work for my rifle... Theres much said about the hmr, laser accuracy, 5 shots in a 5p circle at 100 yards, cloverleafing at 100 yards, 165 yard head shots on rabbits.....easy etc,etc. What I would like to know is what the pw collective think is a reasonable grouping at say 100 yards in reasonably ideal field conditions. The reason I ask is I've had my CVZ455 hmr from new. Its had about 450 rounds through it and try as I might, I cannot get anywhere near the accuracy it seems others find easy to achieve. When new it was throwing shotgun type holes at the target, it was shocking!! This was with hornadays. I changed to remmingtons and the group tightened but was still pretty awful in my opinion. The best I could achieve was about a 4" group, but equally spread. I've tried 3 different scopes, and tonight I took the scope off my pinhole accurate FAC air and tried that. I took the remaining few remingtons and a couple of boxes of winchesters. I did further tests changing the mod thats on it, a wildcat whisper for a sak. There was a significant difference with the Sak, it opened the group right up!!! So Wildcat back on! The remingtons were all over the place. The winchesters, again, significantly different with tighter groups, but vstill un acceptable IMHO. I have tried it cleaned to within an inch of its life, and I mean clean. The groups were terrible until it had 40 or so shots though it then it settled down. And it wasn't because it was moving crud around inside the barrel.........it was CLEAN!! So tonight, winchesters, wildcat mod, perfect conditions, this is the best I could do using the truck door as a rest. The target has an inch centre for a measurement reference. I was as happy as you can be that all the shots were squeezed off at the bull, no snatches. Honest opinions and advice would be appreciated even if its confirmation that I'm a **** shot My next route is to get a someone else to see what they can do with the same combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I can shoot 10p groups in the field but I shoot off a folding chair & use a set of leg extensions with my Bipod - you really do have to compose yourself, take your time & stay on shot & as said above a trigger kit makes a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 When i first got mine it grouped just like yours After a bit of sanding it was a bit better, but after fitting a new trigger spring and shim it was like a different gun The trigger kit was only about £13 or something and it honestly made a world of difference. Done that! those getting 5 in a 5p circle at 100 yards i would guess are bench rest shooting for out in the field they will open up a bit more but that target you have is pretty poor if conditions were good so i would say there is something still wrong mate just my thoughts i am sure somone will soon be on to say they put 5 through the same hole free standing at 100 yards colin Totally agree Colin Have you tried it at 50yds to see how it groups.If it groups well at 50 yds it could be you just need more practice.I only ever zero off a bipod as that is what i use in the field. I do not expect to get 5 shots in a 5p circle at 100 yards, cloverleafing at 100 yards, 165 yard head shots on rabbits.....easy etc,etc. Not saying it cannot be done just do not believe that not everyone saying it can do it in the field. At 50 yards it will do 10p sized groups :o I CAN 1 hole at that distance with the FAC air! I appreciate the practice theory, but to be honest, 450+ shots is a lot of practise. I spent 2 hours last on tuesday evening with the bipod, same terrible grouping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangey Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 yep.agree with v8 90,trigger kit makes a big difference I can shoot 10p groups in the field but I shoot off a folding chair & use a set of leg extensions with my Bipod - you really do have to compose yourself, take your time & stay on shot & as said above a trigger kit makes a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonblasterian Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Have you got a mate who could try it for you to see if they get the same type of grouping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Have you got a mate who could try it for you to see if they get the same type of grouping. I've had one who is an ace shot and had worse groupings than me!! Made me feel a bit better. I'm going to try another guy tomorrow who is deadly with c/f's so that will be a good benchmark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) "Something" isn't right. HMR would be expected to deliver 1" or better, with reasonable barrel, ammo, shooter and weather. This is the best I have done, (yes, only 4 shots, I bottled out of a 5th, but 3 and 4 are about as close as you can get to in the same hole!) but would normally expect 1" or better as said. Silhouette off a Harris bipod, Hornady 17g V-Max! Edited April 25, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drut Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I have no experience of the 455 but some 452's(mine is one) are VERY sensitive to stock bolt torque and the amount that it can affect accuracy truly surprised me.I found good advice on the CZ section of Rimfire Central http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18 & hopefully they may be able to help you as well. Edited April 25, 2013 by drut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shropshire_Lad Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Hi,off twin sticks I have had the same group as Dekers with a 452 , not the norm but as said by many around the 1" in good conditions should be achievable at 100yds. If you are shooting off a rest 4" groups say something is not right. atvb Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Thanks for all the replies, suggestions and ideas chaps It seems flicking around the other forums too, that an inch group or slightly less seems to be the expected average. I would like to think I'm at least an average shot, so it seems something isn't right though I'm at a complete loss as to what it is. Will see if I can get my c/f guru to give it a go tomorrow. I will post the results on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 to be fair i was in the same boat as yourself with a 452 but the more it shot the better it got if i was to by another HMR it would be second hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 After reading the original post several times sevetral things come to mind. First of all you say that you have checked that the barrel is fully floating - Did you check it with the weight of the rifle on the forend? i.e. When the rifle is on a bipod or on a rest of some sort. It is sometimes the case that while the barrel is fully floating with the rifle in the upright position the weight of the rifle on the forend when resting on a bipod or car door can stop the barrel from fully floating and effect the accuracy. You have not mentioned what the results are when you try it without any moderator on! If the group is the same (Spread out) then I would be inclined to get the crown checked ny a reputable gun smith. You will be surprised how even the smallest flaw in the crown, sometimes not even visible to the naked eye can effect the accuracy of a rilfe in quite a big way. If however the group tightens up without any moderator on then I would throw suspicion towards the threading on the barrel not being cut properly. Just my thoughts but maybe worth looking in to mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Thanks FB. Yes tried the weight on the forend. Rifle on bipod, heel of stock supported, still plenty of floating clearance. Have even used a different stock. Mod off altogether is about the only thing I haven't tried, purely for noise issues at the time. I watched your video on zeroing the hmr for a fiend, mine is so far away from that!!! Asverything seems to have been tried or done, it can only be an issue with the crown or barrel machining. Edited April 25, 2013 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Is the mod screwed on properly? I would give it a go with the mod off mate,and see how you get on BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I tried mine earlier at 100 yards and can cover 5 shots in the wind off my wing mirror with a 2 pence piece . I've fired 150 rounds through mine now since new a month ago. I think I'm really interested in a trigger kit as this is the only reason my groups are this size thanks to the pull off pressure . As said try shooting without mod. Try a different grip nearer the mag and on a cushion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb79 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I've had very similar issues with my .17hmr Sako Quad albeit that I was also finding that my POI was shifting every time I went out. The problems I identified were - Wind - Bad (very old) ammo - Poor shooting on my part The POI shift was caused by cleaning the rifle after going out each time. As much as I was going to be keeping it clean after every shoot, I am now leaving it and it seems to be doing ok. As far as bad grouping goes, if you can rule out wind, ammunition and shooting technique, its going to be the scope, moderator, or pressure from bipod on forend i would think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 i went rabbit shooting the other night with the hmr...shot 9 rabbits then the ammo just dropped off, one round just fizzed then fired, the next just didnt sound right.. the ammo isnt old but it was obviarse it wasnt working well..just opened another box and that batch was fine.. could it be a bad batch of ammo?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 It needs looking at, groups got worse with a SAK? Thread/bore not concentric/crown? It does NOT take 40 rounds to get a HMR shooting straight after a clean if the bore is clean, so what would cause it to take 40 rounds of ammo to get it back to about 4" groups? Take it to a decent gunsmith, this whole thing just doesn't add up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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