12bore vs 10bore

[Barls2-9-12]

Just having a think to myself which is best?

 

over the past few years the 12b 3^1/2 chambered semi auto has improved considerably in my opinion along with the variety of shells available from most the gun shop. but can it rival the 10b.

 

I don't think it still can measure up to the ten for goose flighting out on the marsh due to patterning of the gun but as an overall all round wildfowling gun I think it surpasses the 10 now especially as the loads and chokes have improved the killing capabilities considerably.

 

 

If you could just choose one gun to use which would you pick....

 

 

 

[B B]

The ten is dedicated goose reacher reload for it and gain its full pottential and a 3.5 inch 12 wont get near it on the shores. The 3.5 inch 12 is versatile but it only plays at doing what the ten does properly. The 3.5 inch 12s case capacity is largly a waste even though we all buy them, 3 inch 12s even when loaded with steel shot still get by to very close to the 3.5s pottential performance wise, The generaly stronger and higher proof pressures of the 3.5 inch 12ga release a certain advantage to the reloader but not nearly as much as you would think in the field. Of the two the 10 is hands down the best performer esspecialy on geese at ranges around 50 or 60 yards.

[motty]

The 10 wins in regards of reloading steel etc - bigger payloads if you like and generally much higher velocities can be achieved than with the 12.

If i was expecting only geese on the marsh, i may well take the 10, but for general use the 12 wins for me.

Some of the best goose shots on the marsh i shoot only use 12s, and they can bring down pinks with the best of them.

[DerbyshireDale.]

At the same speeds and using the same size pellets the killing range of both guns are equal, the only difference being that the 10 bore can throw more shot per cartridge..(fuller pattern) but as you increase the pay-load you decrease the powder load..."therefore the speed"....the 8 Bore will throw up to 3 ozs but you will only achieve around 10-1100 fps...but you can load it with BB's and still have a good pattern with good striking power....conclusion...if BBshot is fired from a 12G, 10G, 8 or 4G at identical speeds, they all strike the target with the same energy....its how much shot is left in the pattern when it gets there that counts!!......I shot a printed Duck "pattern sheet" the other day with the 8 Bore, with 2.5ozs of number 1's...at 50 yds....141 pellets hit the 3ft square sheet....what "you" have to do now is try your 3.5 12G at this distance and compare....you might be dissapointed but it will give you a good understanding of your gun and load...I also use a 3.5 12G.

Cheers..Dale.

[shakin stevens]

Had a couple of 10bs over the years and found them on the day on the marsh very good for flighting geese, but did swap to a berreta extrema which i found for my shooting very good, what i liked about the 12b auto is i could swap out cartridges for ducks if ducks looked like a better option on the day and the gun handled better for fast teal when snap shooting, where the 10b struggled for me, plus cartridges could prove expensive, Then i got my hands on a Browning Gold Light 10b this year so this year going to try the 10b, plus i load all my own ammo so cartridges are not a problem for feeding the 10b.

For me i think the 10s soak up the recoil better than the 12bs and pattern better, even though over the years i have shot some good geese and ducks with a 3inch magnum aya number 3 it loved them early hevi shot rounds but the cartridges got way to expensive.

[Donkey]

I've never used a 3.5 12 gauge but use my sp10 on a regular basis

I could never see myself changing from a 10 bore as a dedicated goose gun

[wildfowler.250]

As a general wildfowling gun the 12 bore pees over the 10 bore. The ten is good for geese but teal and so on aren't really practical. Although the last time I took my ten out i shot a mallard, a wigeon and 3 teal but its expensive shooting

 

 

If I was going out purely for geese though I'd take the 10.

[kent]

The quicker, lighter 12 wins in some circumstances but you cannot compare a 3 1/2" 12 with a similar manufacture shell in a ten, patterns better and hits a lot harder. Now the 3 1/2" 12 is normally an auto, if you are talking double against double the 12 will beat you about a bit like for like, just like putting std 12 bore loads through a lighter 20 will.

 

you might think" but load for load performance is equal", its not. Using Nitro steel in both the 10 will strike most of the pellets clean through 12mm ply @ 50 yards yet the same load in 12 will put an odd one through with a far gappier pattern to boot, surprised me.

 

For many a double ten is a bit too much heft, was outside last night at dusk dreaming of September and practicing mounting on the swallows- by crickey I could feel it in my shoulders after 50 or 60 dry runs and I am not a little fella

[TJ91]

[quote name="kent" post="2206131" timestamp="1372170819"

 

For many a double ten is a bit too much heft, was outside last night at dusk dreaming of September and practicing mounting on the swallows- by crickey I could feel it in my shoulders after 50 or 60 dry runs and I am not a little fella

 

I hope the neighbours wernt watching!!

I feel it after 5 or 6 dry runs haha, bit I am abit on the weedy side! I can't see me stopping using the ten bore though, when the geese come the 10 comes out!

[motty]

The quicker, lighter 12 wins in some circumstances but you cannot compare a 3 1/2" 12 with a similar manufacture shell in a ten, patterns better and hits a lot harder. Now the 3 1/2" 12 is normally an auto, if you are talking double against double the 12 will beat you about a bit like for like, just like putting std 12 bore loads through a lighter 20 will.

 

you might think" but load for load performance is equal", its not. Using Nitro steel in both the 10 will strike most of the pellets clean through 12mm ply @ 50 yards yet the same load in 12 will put an odd one through with a far gappier pattern to boot, surprised me.

 

For many a double ten is a bit too much heft, was outside last night at dusk dreaming of September and practicing mounting on the swallows- by crickey I could feel it in my shoulders after 50 or 60 dry runs and I am not a little fella

Though i'm not disagreeing with what you say, the pattern will have a lot to do with what chokes are in both guns. Also, the penetration should be the same for 10 and 12 if the velocity and shot size is equal.

[ayano3]

If you could say your only going to see geese then either a ten or even an eight would be my choice. But as we know there is some great sport to be had on duck at the same time as goose flighting so a good compromise is a twelve with a few heavier loads at the ready for the geese. If you only went for particular quarry then the choice is yours. Its not wrong to shoot duck with a big bore if you let them get far enough away that you e dont blow them to bits but you have to be a very good shot and judge of distance....something I feel is lacking at times from what I have witnessed.

Edited June 25, 2013 by ayano3

[UK fowler]

10g auto all the way for me the browning gold light only tips the scales at 9lb and they are proofed to 1370 bar the same as a 12g31/2" with reloads the 12 cant touch the 10 when loaded to the same pressure . a 1 3/8oz of 2# steel shot is a killer on duck and very sweet to shoot through a 9lb gun up the load to 1 5/8oz of BBB or T and geese can be folded up with ease at longer ranges the bigger shot brings the 10 into its own

[joknob]

10g auto all the way for me the browning gold light only tips the scales at 9lb and they are proofed to 1370 bar the same as a 12g31/2" with reloads the 12 cant touch the 10 when loaded to the same pressure . a 1 3/8oz of 2# steel shot is a killer on duck and very sweet to shoot through a 9lb gun up the load to 1 5/8oz of BBB or T and geese can be folded up with ease at longer ranges the bigger shot brings the 10 into its own

or F shot. craig

[aister]

I had an old 2 5/8 hammer 10 bore for a while which I loved, I used it for both ducks and geese. I got it with a few boxes of old paper eley kynoch no4 and BB which worked fine but mostly at normal 12 bore ranges. The other 10 bore I have used was my friends purdey using 3 1/2 BB which was mustard on geese. Going on my little experience with 10 bores I would have one over the 12 anytime IF feeding it was easier and as cheap as the 12. I suppose reloading is the answer, a nice light load for duck at night, a heavier duck load for flighting duck and a good thumper for stopping geese. I would like a gun along the lines of my friends purdey, heavy enough to soak up a lot of the recoil of the heavy shells but light enough to not be a burden like some his bigger guns.

[B B]

A little practical illustration here to show just why the 10ga should be on your wish list if you have not allready got one.

10ga 1 1/2 oz of T steel at 1550fps and thats from published data available to everyone the world over with generaly available wads and powders and all this at 10700psi . Let any 3.5 inch 12ga user or reloader show me a 1 1/2oz load that is doing a faster speed and still be under 11200psi thats giving the 12 a 500psi advantage if you like. Now on T steel at1550fps it is a 100fps vellocity advantage over where the 3.5inch 12 will be using any data i have ever seen, now 100fps with T steel at lower pressure going through a bigger bore has to be significant, well thats what my science teacher told me anyway.

Edited June 25, 2013 by B B

[subsonicnat]

Nobody seems to have noticed the COST prohibitive part of Big Loads:

3oz`s of shot is very expensive to say the least, if you can shoot properly within your given ranges The 3.5" will do the Job:

Sky busting is thinking you have greater fire power, seen blokes bring high duck down with a 20 Bore, it`s all about your ability to put the shot where it counts. ALWAYS:

[B B]

Cost is relative to personal financial circumstances nothing to do with shotgun performance and even if taken in to account the saving on factory 3.5 inch over 10ga is negligable and even when reloading the savings are relatively small when compared to lets say diesel, not as odd as it first sounds i spend far more on diesel with regards wildfowling than ever i do on ammunition.

And skybusting again is an individual personal thing, having a 10ga is not a prerequisite for a skybusters armoury, this can happen regardless of the Gauge of shotgun used, i dare say if it were ever possible to work out what percentage of skybusters were using tens or twelves more would be using 12s because they are far more common.

10s do deliver better patterns than 12s regardless if the 12s are backbored or not and to expand on my above statement on the 1 1/2 oz 12ga T steel load the 10 will deliver better patterns generaly with equivelent choke constriction.

The only thing the 12 3.5 inch wins at is versatility of use, and a few more bar to play with if you reload. Plain facts are the 10 handles the loads better than a 3.5 inch can this is not realy debatable.

[motty]

Nobody seems to have noticed the COST prohibitive part of Big Loads:

3oz`s of shot is very expensive to say the least, if you can shoot properly within your given ranges The 3.5" will do the Job:

Sky busting is thinking you have greater fire power, seen blokes bring high duck down with a 20 Bore, it`s all about your ability to put the shot where it counts. ALWAYS:

?

 

Cost is relative to personal financial circumstances nothing to do with shotgun performance and even if taken in to account the saving on factory 3.5 inch over 10ga is negligable and even when reloading the savings are relatively small when compared to lets say diesel, not as odd as it first sounds i spend far more on diesel with regards wildfowling than ever i do on ammunition.

And skybusting again is an individual personal thing, having a 10ga is not a prerequisite for a skybusters armoury, this can happen regardless of the Gauge of shotgun used, i dare say if it were ever possible to work out what percentage of skybusters were using tens or twelves more would be using 12s because they are far more common.

10s do deliver better patterns than 12s regardless if the 12s are backbored or not and to expand on my above statement on the 1 1/2 oz 12ga T steel load the 10 will deliver better patterns generaly with equivelent choke constriction.

The only thing the 12 3.5 inch wins at is versatility of use, and a few more bar to play with if you reload. Plain facts are the 10 handles the loads better than a 3.5 inch can this is not realy debatable.

I'm not sure that steel patterns better through a 10 than a 12. Lead is generally accepted to pattern better through a 10 because of less barrel contact and less flyers etc.

 

All of the above posts seem to be concentrating on steel. There are other non toxic options out there.

[motty]

10g auto all the way for me the browning gold light only tips the scales at 9lb and they are proofed to 1370 bar the same as a 12g31/2" with reloads the 12 cant touch the 10 when loaded to the same pressure . a 1 3/8oz of 2# steel shot is a killer on duck and very sweet to shoot through a 9lb gun up the load to 1 5/8oz of BBB or T and geese can be folded up with ease at longer ranges the bigger shot brings the 10 into its own

What choke do you use in your Browning? I've killed a few geese with 1 5/8 T through my old Browning Gold, but i don't seem to get a great pattern at 50 yards. This is using both factory chokes and a Wadwizard stud10.

[joknob]

What choke do you use in your Browning? I've killed a few geese with 1 5/8 T through my old Browning Gold, but i don't seem to get a great pattern at 50 yards. This is using both factory chokes and a Wadwizard stud10.

im using a briley IM choke,with T and F shot it patterns superb at ranges between 40 and 60 yards.with T shot i can manage 46 grams, but with F i can only get 44.5 grams. craig

[B B]

I have three aftermarket chokes and the factory three, i have a Briley IM a terror 720 and a terror 705. I have had good results with the Terror 720 and the briley IM, but have done little work yet with the 705 i got it while i still could as Terrors new are no more.

[henry d]

The only thing the 12 3.5 inch wins at is versatility of use, and a few more bar to play with if you reload. Plain facts are the 10 handles the loads better than a 3.5 inch can this is not realy debatable.

 

In what way? I had a Greylag in 10 and have an Xtrema 2 now and I much prefer the latter for firing 2 1/4 oz by a country mile.

[B B]

 

In what way? I had a Greylag in 10 and have an Xtrema 2 now and I much prefer the latter for firing 2 1/4 oz by a country mile.

Thats down to your preference not physics, i dont know what loads you are using and you have to compare like with like to be fair perhaps the 2 1/4 oz load will be considerably slower than the equivelent 10ga load you use.

A more practical comparison here would be your greylag with a 2 1/4 oz load of lead at 1335 fps and my 425 waterfowl with a 2 1./4 lead load propeled by for the sake of debate a powder that could make 1335fps and yet still remain in the pressure limits i dont know of such a powder but if one existed the weight mass of your greylag would reduce the felt recoil considerably and you would know this after you shot them both.

In the same seam compare your extrema 2 with a SP10 or a gold 10 semi auto and again the same 2 1/4oz loads both at 1335fps the extrewma even with the kick off would kick you harder.

Now if to debate you stick to 2 1/4 oz factory 3.5 inch load and reload a 10 to work at the 12s vellocity the ten again will have less felt recoil where action types are the same. Like i said practicaly the ten handles equivelent loads both on recoil and generaly on the pattern plate if properly choked better than a 3.5 inch 12.

[Guest cookoff013]

pressure is just that, its either safe, or not.

 

the 10gauge will undoubted will be better with big steel shot than the 12. just because you can use more shot, bigger shot, and drive it with atleast some speed.

 

as a dedicated goose gun, 10gauge wins. as a general gauge, the 12 wins.

 

i cant see anyone trying to decoy pigeons with a 10gauge.

[henry d]

Yeah but shooting the odd one is fun...