Why am I missing ??

[Danoi99]

I am a pretty tidy shot with my old Hammer gun. I mainly shoot English Sporting Clays and my average score is around the 40 - 44 mark !! So I can shoot pretty good ( With my hammer gun choked Full & Full)

 

So why is it that I keep missing these bloody pigeons ?? The other day a pigeon came blasting past our hide at full tilt, left to right, 25 - 30 yds out, 15 ft off the deck........going like the clappers !!!

 

I stood up........shouldered the old Baikal..........swung through and pulled the trigger............poor old pigeon just completely folded and was dead before it hit the ground !! It was the first shot & first pigeon sighted that day............the kind of shot that makes it all worth while.

 

All I will say is that my accuracy had peaked at that point............rest of the day was un-real !! Pigeons virtually hovering were being missed !! My mojo has gone, my confidence is shot but the pigeons aint !!

 

What am I doing wrong ?? What is the normal hit ratio for us mere mortals ? What range are you lot most successful at ? Is there some common mistake that I am making ? too much lead or not enough?

I do tend to shoot with a maintained lead or pull away style?? I just don't know what is going on !!

 

On Sunday I came 3rd at our local clay shoot with a score of 42..............tuesday on the pigeons..........well, I am ashamed at the birds that got away.......!!

 

.The ones I hit have been processed by my lower intestine and colon and are winging their way towards our nearest sewage treatment works !!!

 

any advice or friendly banter is welcome !!!

 

ps. I am using felt wad 12g Gambore Clear Pigeon 32gm no.6 ( yes my gun kicks good )

Edited August 14, 2013 by Danoi99

[fenboy]

I am guessing with that first pigeon motoring so was your swing so you got well in front and bingo .

 

I am also guessing that on those easy "hovering" ones you are trying to "rifle shoot" them IE not swinging through the target , it is quite easy to miss even the simplest bird if you get into this habit , I have even been know to miss a couple myself

[bornfree]

I would say your infront.I shoot clays mostly but when I have a go at pigeons or crows I find I cut back my lead.

[fenboy]

I think its rare in any shotgun shooting that you would be missing in front, not that I doubt what your saying but its not common to miss in front.

[aga man]

no6 through full choke will throw a very tight patttern at 25yds. maybe a pattern test could help determine the optimun range/pattern for decoyed pigeons. pigeons at 30 yds generally don't need a lot of maintained lead.

having said all that i shot like a fool this afternoon. once you get into that pattern of missing you think/try too much and go round in circles.

[Cosd]

I would open your chokes to 1/4 and 1/2.

Side to side you know how to give the lead but coming to you they can be deceiving, if they're dropping you may be shooting above them but your chokes could well sort that.

[indio]

Wouldn't even begin to tell you what you are doing wrong (far more experienced guns on here can do that) but I would say that in my very limited experience of shooting pigeons is Welcome To Pigeon shooting !!

I've had days when I think how the - - - - did I hit that one and even more days when I think how the - - - - did I miss that one, even ones you would think would be stone dead certainties.

When I miss "dead certs" it does knock the old confidence a bit and you start to think what's the point of trying for that one or this one as I'll only miss it.

But then I think of the good shots that I've sometimes made, the fact that I've carted all my gear ,set up the hide ,wasted fags/coffee/ sarnies 'cos that's when the birds come in and decide that it's easier to give up than keep going so I keep going.

Never been a fan of clays but I did see on You tube a comment by George Digweed (?) that the clays tend to "fly" at a predictable trajectory and are only ever going to slow down.

From my very limited experience Pigeons though are obviously a bit different..........if we could tell them not to dink and weave, rise up or drop down, change direction in a split second, see you from miles away and generally not be such bad sports as all we want to do is blow them out of the sky then I would guess all our shots to kill ratio would be better.

 

Remember, it's only a "game", don't take it too seriously don't lose your sense of humour and if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.

How boring would it be if every time we lift the gun to our shoulder and pull the trigger we always win ??

 

good luck

[the pigeon man]

A lot of people can't shoot still things I miss shooting runners at times

[Kes]

The first difference is that pigeons can accelerate and change direction clays cant they just slow down and never change direction so you must factor that in. As said choke is for 40 yd birds and closer you do need rather less to enhance your chances. Also, when a pigeon sees you it changes direction maybe a couple of times in 5 seconds and then settles on a course, wait for a little and if its still in range then shoot - if its not wait for the next, no point in shooting where you think it will be !

Also as a good rule of thumb Archie Coats used to get 'half-price' i.e. 1 bird for 2 shots, thats a very good average unless you pick your shots carefully. Much more likely is 1 to 4, so, compared to clays you will miss a lot more even if you are doing well.

Final point choose a particular type of bird, maybe a crosser at 35 yds and vary your speed of swing to see what suits those birds and memorise the speed and swing. It is only practice after all that will up your scores at live quarry. Far better to miss and learn than injure many.

[thepasty]

Clays are predictable but birds arent?

 

Weirdly I miss in front more than I miss behind too....

 

You could always just wait for them to land

[dougall]

There are a few times when you just shoot straight at a pigeon,ie coming straight at you and momentarily 'stop' in the air when landing,but for most that look stationary they are not,you need to shoot just to the opposite side from whence they came,just swing with them and fire giving only small lead on those committed.If they are 35/40 yards out give 'em a body width. Cartridges/choke and all that pretty unimportant in my view.Once you have shot a few times you will have mental pictures for 95% of pigeon shots,these are all slightly different between different shooters(speed of swing etc) you just need to keep shooting and build your own mental picture library.

Whatever you read on here a cartridge/pigeon ratio of 2:1 is highly acceptable which means you will miss 50% of the time....pigeons aint totally daft and are good flyers/evaders...as with sporting clays there is no such thing as an easy target,all can be missed!

atb

[gilo17]

I started with a gun choked at full and was missing alot, bought a new gun with multi choke changed to 1/2 and 1/4 and noticed a change instantly.

[filzee]

I always find it really easy to "over think" when shooting pigeons, you get so used to clays maintaining a steady speed going in straight lines.

Pigeons sometimes look like they are flying straight across you but they often arn't.

As someone else has mentioned you might be shooting at some of them that are too close with a full choke and effectively trying to hit a pigeon with a tennis ball instead of a nice big pattern.

 

My advice, practice on the pigeons. When I first started shooting clays I got up to county standard but then started decoying and it took me a long time to get on top of them. I can now hit pigeons but im terrible at clays.

I think the best pigeon shooters out there are the instinctive shooters. See the bird let it come in, gun up in one full motion, bum belly beak BANG.

 

I always struggle for the first few days on the pheasants each year as they give me far too much time to think.

 

Good luck mate and get at them

[subsonicnat]

pigeons are by far harder to shoot than clays which are predictable to certain degree, try shooting clays as they drop or nearer the trap, you will find that your score will drop a lot:... pigeons coming in are dropping like a brick, or going away rising and twisting, you cannot compare like for like mate:

[motty]

The first difference is that pigeons can accelerate and change direction clays cant they just slow down and never change direction so you must factor that in. As said choke is for 40 yd birds and closer you do need rather less to enhance your chances. Also, when a pigeon sees you it changes direction maybe a couple of times in 5 seconds and then settles on a course, wait for a little and if its still in range then shoot - if its not wait for the next, no point in shooting where you think it will be !

Also as a good rule of thumb Archie Coats used to get 'half-price' i.e. 1 bird for 2 shots, thats a very good average unless you pick your shots carefully. Much more likely is 1 to 4, so, compared to clays you will miss a lot more even if you are doing well.

Final point choose a particular type of bird, maybe a crosser at 35 yds and vary your speed of swing to see what suits those birds and memorise the speed and swing. It is only practice after all that will up your scores at live quarry. Far better to miss and learn than injure many.

If i ever start only killing 1 pigeon for 4 shots, i would hope someone would shoot me! Getting 1 pigeon for 2 shots is more acceptable but still not great.

 

 

I still think a skeet range is a great place to practise for pigeons over decoys. If you can average 90%+ on skeet, i think pigeons in the decoys should be no problem. Then extend lead for further away shots.

Edited August 15, 2013 by motty

[ants]

I think it's all in the mind, that first shot you describe was instinct then you probably started watching the birds come in and over thinking it. Once you start missing and confidence throws a wobbler then you start trying harder and over thinking it more! Just write it off as a bad day and start fresh next time! I find if I start shooting like a vegetarian I carry on for the rest of the day ;-( but on that note one cracking shot can turn it all around ;-)

Atb ant

[-Mongrel-]

If i ever start only killing 1 pigeon for 4 shots, i would hope someone would shoot me! Getting 1 pigeon for 2 shots is more acceptable but still not great.

 

 

 

Bloody Hell, 1 for 2 is a very good average on pigeon I'd say, but at the same time I'd be upset with 1 for 4 too! In the middle seems to be my consistent average, I sometimes shoot a bit better and get closer to 1 for 2 but don't seem to drop off any more than 1 for 3.

 

I can of course get picky about what I take and jack up the percentages that way, but half the fun of shooting is when you hit that screaming, crossing/incoming bird!

Edited August 15, 2013 by -Mongrel-

[-Mongrel-]

I think it's all in the mind, that first shot you describe was instinct then you probably started watching the birds come in and over thinking it. Once you start missing and confidence throws a wobbler then you start trying harder and over thinking it more! Just write it off as a bad day and start fresh next time! I find if I start shooting like a vegetarian I carry on for the rest of the day ;-( but on that note one cracking shot can turn it all around ;-)

Atb ant

If I'm really shooting like a donkey, I put the gun down. Not to stop shooting but to reduce the amount of time I have! By the time you pick it up, mount it and get on the bird you don't have enough time left to over think it! Often works for me.

[Danoi99]

Clays are predictable but birds arent?

 

Weirdly I miss in front more than I miss behind too....

 

You could always just wait for them to land

Always a great comment from thepasty.

[Danoi99]

I must agree with most of the comments here

 

1. Over thinking it.

2. Putting too much lead on.

3. Expecting greater success. ( only really starting out at this lark ).

 

Every time I have shot a real cracker of a bird, it has been when I was eating a sarnie..........bird comes in..........I grab the gun, close it, pull the hammer back, stand up and kabooom !!! No thinking, just got on with it.

 

When I peek through the netting and spot the bandit at 2 o'clock........sweeping in nice and steady............starts his approach..........full flaps............about to touchdown.........I take aim, Kabooom !! Pigeon hits the afterburner, banks left and is gone !!!!!

 

This pigeon shooting is the most enjoyable type of shooting I have done for many years.....hit or miss..........every time I have gone out it has been memorable in some way !!! Well and truly hooked now !!!!

[Longbower]

I am very much a novice to Pigeon Shooting, so I cannot claim any experience or expertise.

I was told by a very experienced pigeon shooter , to "blot them out with the end of the barrel"

keep swinging until you see the some of the bird behind the trailing edge of the barrel, shoot

but don't stop the swing.

It never works but ,god it sounds good .

Only shot clays a couple of times , enjoyed it but i think it could become addictive (read expensive).

And I'm a pump action fan , Apparently not the" done thing "

I would advise to get out there and keep trying, there are worse places you could be , and pigeons

don't shoot back.

 

Someday's your the bug , someday's your the windscreen.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Longbower

[soontjen]

do you use the same cartridges for the clays as you do on the birds ?

it might be that the gun kicks that little bit more you'd only need it to lift 1/2 inch extra and youd be off with tight chokes

try the heavy cart's on the clay's see what happen's

sorry about the under lining ?

[motty]

do you use the same cartridges for the clays as you do on the birds ?

it might be that the gun kicks that little bit more you'd only need it to lift 1/2 inch extra and youd be off with tight chokes

try the heavy cart's on the clay's see what happen's

sorry about the under lining ?

I'm sorry, but that is absolute rubbish.

[-Mongrel-]

Saved me saying it.

[Greenhunter]

This 'sight picture' thing is all well and good but I think there is quite a difference in shooting clays and pigeons.

I feel that maybe you need two sets of them, if you understand me!

The simple fact that clays are always slowing and pigeon can speed up, stay constant or slow down makes them more difficult.

The ability to read the speed and direction is the key IMO and this only comes with practice.

Certainly, too much time to think about a shot can cause a miss, I agree, but if you are keeping still till the last second there shouldn't

be time to think too much.

A 3 to 1 kill ratio is about average I think.

 

GH