Shooting over a road

[Will Poon]

Legal or not , when you shoot a weapon you look at the background to see if its safe to shoot at the target just in case you miss. Where a road is concerned even if it's clear and your focused on the kill across the road a car could come across your path of trajectory before you know it ... Too late then

If in doubt of your surroundings don't squeeze that trigger

[spandit]

Legal or not , when you shoot a weapon you look at the background to see if its safe to shoot at the target just in case you miss. Where a road is concerned even if it's clear and your focused on the kill across the road a car could come across your path of trajectory before you know it ... Too late then

If in doubt of your surroundings don't squeeze that trigger

Another good point. I'm also guessing a witness seeing a gun barrel pointing out of a window might not react well

[evo]

:lol: classic

[pstenson123]

Can't see this op having his ticket long !!!!!!! Dog walkers, ramblers WATCH OUT..... I think he's posted it in the wrong section! Joke section is further up.

Edited October 14, 2013 by pstenson123

[Kes]

In the case you pose of shooting over anothers land onto land on which you have permission - I personally would never do this - height distance or anything else, I would regard it as an unsafe shot and not even consider it, irrespective of interpretation of the LAW. However, there are highways which bisect shoots and even drives on shoots. They tend to be lanes 'c'class roads or footpaths.

Yes you can shoot over these highways but as the law stipulates and, to be honest, you wouldnt do it if you could place your shooters in some other way, I am sure the local police are aware of these situations or at least used to be.

Footpaths often run through fields and are at most usually 2.5-3.0m wide. Here the land under the footpath is OWNED by the landowner and if on a shoot, it is entirely legal to shoot over the footpath but with safety in mind and the legal stipulation of 50 feet does not apply and yet it is, 'strictly speaking' a 'highway'.

It is a 'trespass' if you allow shot to fall beyond your property on to another persons land on which you do not have permission to shoot. Trespass is a civil matter unless it is armed trespass.

 

In the case again which you specify, what would happen if something or someone (van or man on trailer) passed as you were shooting - I think its simply that you lose control of the safety of your shot and therefore would never do it. Just MPO

[spandit]

A good reasoned answer, thanks. I'd rather ask the questions now than after the event,

 

To clarify, for those of you who are taking this a little too seriously, I'm not going to do it, it was just a thought that popped into my head whilst looking at the bunnies playing in the field over the lane.

[thepasty]

Pigeon watch is renowned for its particular breed of poster, we have an unbalanced amount of the righteous, judgemental and given the chance they will belittle with great pleasure...

 

Please dont be put off from asking future questions, you need a combine to filter the amount of wheat from the chaff around this place.

[CharlieT]

It is not illegal and as with all things shooting, it comes down to reasoned common sense.

 

Would I shoot across a busy road, one where I could not see half a mile in either direction, most certainly not.

However, I do shoot across extremely rural roads where I am looking down onto them and know that it is safe to do so. Equally I fire a shotgun across a road when it is safe to do so. In fact we have a drive on the shoot intersected by a lane and with proper safety measures in place it is completely safe and legal.

 

You asked a good question and one that deserves an unbigoted answer. I hope I have given you just that.

[spandit]

Pigeon watch is renowned for its particular breed of poster, we have an unbalanced amount of the righteous, judgemental and given the chance they will belittle with great pleasure...

 

Please dont be put off from asking future questions, you need a combine to filter the amount of wheat from the chaff around this place.

 

I may be new to shooting, but I'm not new to Internet forums

 

You asked a good question and one that deserves an unbigoted answer. I hope I have given you just that.

Absolutely, thank you.

 

You will be pleased/displeased* to note that I can end my idle speculation as the post arrived this morning

 

 

* delete as applicable

[CharlieT]

 

 

* delete as applicable

 

That made me chuckle.

[deaquire]

I don't know the law inside out, but it sounds like some of you guys do. From what you've all said, it does sound like it could be interpreted that you could actually shoot over a road, as long as the bullet lands on ground you have permission for. Now obviously, anyone in their right wouldn't do this. But on the off chance that someone did, and they were caught - but noone was injured and the bullet landed within your boundaries, what would the court outcome be?

 

The thought of someone shooting over a road scares the bejesus out of me!

[CharlieT]

I don't know the law inside out, but it sounds like some of you guys do. From what you've all said, it does sound like it could be interpreted that you could actually shoot over a road, as long as the bullet lands on ground you have permission for. Now obviously, anyone in their right wouldn't do this. But on the off chance that someone did, and they were caught - but noone was injured and the bullet landed within your boundaries, what would the court outcome be?

 

The thought of someone shooting over a road scares the bejesus out of me!

Then you havnt read and understood the provisos that some have stated.

 

Why would a safe shot scare you.

[al4x]

Indeed I'm with Charlie we have roads you can shoot over but they are far lower than the hills either side and you can see well apart from the fact the bullet would always be 50 feet plus over the top and it would be dark

[deaquire]

Then you havnt read and understood the provisos that some have stated.

 

Why would a safe shot scare you.

 

 

A lot of people will not read this to it's fullest content and I don't really think that " a safe shot over a public road" are words that should be written down on a public forum. But that's just my opinion and my opinion alone and don't really wanna argue about it.

[Muddy Funker]

Just standing my ground. I'd hoped for a more reasoned response than the scolding I received, but it does appear there is some disagreement here. Might put that in my signature...

 

On a point of law, all the legislation I can find points to air guns, although some brief research found reference to trespass. Safety issues aside, I'm not convinced that a bullet passing over land without touching it counts as trespass - you might say the same about an aircraft - wouldn't want one landing in my garden, but it's not an offence to fly over it (albeit over 500' AGL). Obviously, the poster who enquired about shooting across my garden wouldn't discharge the shot if I was walking through the line of fire (or maybe he would after reading this thread )

You'll find that here mate, plenty of know it all, self righteous members that always have the right answer for everything. You're question is perfectly reasonable.

 

The first thing any of these people do is bring in to question someone's suitability for holding a firearms licence for various reasons, asking what they believe is a stupid question, going 1 mile an hour over the speed limit, showing any emotion other than perfect calm.

 

Must be tough being so perfect,,,,,

 

Edit:

 

I'm sure there are many roads in highland areas bisecting valleys with good visibility that would offer a safe shot from one side to the other.

 

I don't think anyone here is suggesting firing over a motorway a few feet above motorists heads is safe.

 

I actually despair at the replies to newer members questions sometimes.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Muddy Funker

[wymberley]

I was once a guest at a shoot and the captain placed me in the middle of a road. I stepped on to the verge where upon he came back and 'replaced' me. A couple of seconds later a car came along so I stepped on to the verge again and it passed by. Now I'm in real trouble as the captain is back and so am I - back in the middle of the road. OK, thinks I, I'll play. Within minutes I've got cars backed up either side of me and I'm missing pheasant in fine style as usual. At the end of the drive I get out of the road and wave my thanks and everyone smiles and waves back as they continue on their way.

 

Civilised country is Germany.

[dadioles]

Footpaths often run through fields and are at most usually 2.5-3.0m wide. Here the land under the footpath is OWNED by the landowner and if on a shoot, it is entirely legal to shoot over the footpath but with safety in mind and the legal stipulation of 50 feet does not apply and yet it is, 'strictly speaking' a 'highway'.

 

 

Unfortunately no-one has really clarified the legal situation whereby a shot leaves the boundary of one permission, enters the airspace where there is no permission (road) and lands beyond it where there is permission.

 

Be careful Kes, a "highway" is carefully defined in law and it does not include footpaths, a bridleway is the same as a footpath with the additional right to ride horses along it. As you said, the landowner owns the land and by defining part of it as a footpath it simple confers a right of passage "right of way". That is why shooting over or near a footpath is not a problem in law. That is quite different to a Highway as the Highway will (most likely) be "owned" by the County Council.

 

My understanding is that you must not overshoot any boundary that goes onto land not in your control or ownership. That means that you cannot legally shoot over a road (in my humble opinion).

 

Note added later.... I am wrong here, a highway is not carefully defined in law and common law accepts that any right of way, road, footpath, bridleway, whatever... is a highway. Sorry Kes. Replace the word "highway" with "carriageway" and it makes better sense.

Edited October 15, 2013 by dadioles

[kdubya]

I was told by the BASC firearms chap that it is technically legal to shoot across a road if you have authority to shoot both sides as long as the requirement to not injure, interrupt or endanger road users is observed but I think he was referring to shooting birds in the sky where the spent shot would land on the other side rather than firing bullets over it. Whether it would be wise is another thing entirely.

shoot I was in had one such stand,with guns in a field facing a wood at the other side of a road,if a car came gun was broken till it passed, never ever had one bit of bother.

 

KW

[Pole Star]

Not to many years ago I was at a driven shoot in Co Wicklow in Ireland & I was put on the edge of a grass verge on a narrow country road than went through a wood & I dropped a hen pheasant on the edge of the road , only then to notice a car coming up the road so I broke my gun till it passed .

 

When this car got to where the pheasant had fallen the car stopped & a man got out & said " this bird is still alive " , OK I said & I started to call one of the under keepers to deal with it, when this man picked up the pheasant & stated ranting . By this time the keeper had arrived & asked him to give him the bird & then the man said " what are you going to do with it ? " & the keeper said I will kill it , then this man shouted at me " I hope you are enjoying yourself you cruel ****** ! ".

 

They say its best if you don't take a dog to a driven shoot & leave it to the pickers up , well better if you take your own dog perhaps & avoid shooting near roads ? ,

I did notice the car had a Dublin number plate & the man had a Dublin accent , a townie ! , of course he gets his meet from Tescos .

Edited October 15, 2013 by Pole Star

[Kes]

Unfortunately no-one has really clarified the legal situation whereby a shot leaves the boundary of one permission, enters the airspace where there is no permission (road) and lands beyond it where there is permission.

 

Be careful Kes, a "highway" is carefully defined in law and it does not include footpaths, a bridleway is the same as a footpath with the additional right to ride horses along it. As you said, the landowner owns the land and by defining part of it as a footpath it simple confers a right of passage "right of way". That is why shooting over or near a footpath is not a problem in law. That is quite different to a Highway as the Highway will (most likely) be "owned" by the County Council.

 

My understanding is that you must not overshoot any boundary that goes onto land not in your control or ownership. That means that you cannot legally shoot over a road (in my humble opinion).[/size]

Thank you for the note of caution - here is the legal definition.

 

Public rights of way

Public rights of way are minor public highways that exist for the benefit of the community at large. They are made up of:

 

Footpaths - over which the right of way is on foot only.

Bridleways - for pedestrians, horse riders and bicyclists.

Restricted byways - for all types of traffic, except mechanically propelled vehicles. Most of these are former RUPPs (roads used as public paths).

Byways open to all traffic - for people on foot, horseback and for all vehicular traffic, including mechanically propelled vehicles, but which are used mainly by walkers and horse riders.

 

We know 'highways' are highways but you obviously did not know all public rights of way are highways -"the right for the public to pass and repass does not specify by what means. Highway law differs between Highway types but the definition is that it is a 'highway'. Perhaps you might be more careful ?

 

Sorry forgot to put that this definition is from the Gov. website. Cheers

Edited October 15, 2013 by Kes

[Dangerous Brian]

Just to add to the post from Kes, I did a quick search and cut and paste the following from the BASC website:

 

S

 

HOOTING NEAR HIGHWAYS (E.G. ROADS & CARRIAGEWAYS)

In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to

discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of

or comprises a carriageway,

 

and in consequence a user of the carriageway is

injured, interrupted or endangered.

 

[section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as

amended].

 

It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not

prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that

someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to

make a detour.

For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a

‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does

not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule

described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g.

footpaths.

 

Not sure what part of the highways act the post from Kes refers to but it reads a bit differently to what I found. Typical ambiguity from Government sources by the looks of it, yet we all still have to thread our way around it.

[Fisherman Mike]

see nothings changed since I've been away.

 

of course you can shoot over a road but only at Hares at night with a air pistol or a sawn off shotgun

[huntsman]

If I were you, I would really consider getting a mentor and going out shooting with someone experienced, competent and of mature age, thats even before you even handle a firearm

 

I would also familiarize yourself and get to know

1 the law

2 the safe areas of shooting

3 Highly recommend that you Join a shooting club and gain some practical experience

[Kes]

Re the post by Dangerous Brian, its a boiled down version of the Highways Act 1980. Also, Brians says " for the purposes of ..... That makes the following paragraphs refer only to those highways mentioned.

All routes over which the public has the right to pass and repass are highways, some are private some are maintainable at the public expense some are private and public at the same time, some are footpaths etc etc. But where the land is OWNED by different bodies is where the law changes and whilst the 'highway' is a right for all, the land belongs to the owner and he may do as he sees fit, well, almost.

[dadioles]

After giving it considerable thought I find myself agreeing with Kes (sorry Kes) and accept that the term Highway is not defined in law but that common law accepts it to be anywhere there is right of passage and therefore a footpath is indeed a highway.

 

A carriageway, on the other hand, is specifically for vehicles and that, by definition, excludes footpaths and bridleways. Hence the wording of section 161 of the Highways Act (1980) which narrows the offence of discharging firearms to "carriageway" and therefore does not apply to footpaths and bridleways. The much misquoted 50ft rule.

 

Dangerous Brian is also correct so we can all pat ourselves on the back and book a pint at the local..... cheers lads.

 

Oh..... it still does not answer the original post - do we agree that shooting over a road (in this case a "carriageway") is illegal as the bullet is leaving the boundary of the permission. Next topic "aerial trespass".