UKIP... what do you know about them?

[la bala]

...but we don't have the people to go down the mines...unless you mean the eu migrants?

now thats an idea.

[Mungler]

Beware the evil CO2 fairy.

 

What we do makes not a jot of difference globally; we are a small island and should fill our boots with whatever we can.

 

If nuclear means cheaper long term leccy bills then lets 'ave it

[FalconFN]

So Germany is not bothered then? how many coal stations are being built there NOW? since they ditched nuclear, fact is coal can and should be a part of our energy production, modern clean burn systems and Desulphurisation plants are light years away from the old coal burners,we could have economic pits again and a teenie bit of industry, but no we would rather pander to the gullible who fantasize that we can hold back the tide, and that every clap of thunder is man made and hence taxable.

 

KW

A UKIP supported using Europe as a shining example of what to do, surely not?

 

As I said, they are cleaner (5% still goes up the chimney) but they are less efficient than gas, produce vast amounts of CO₂, use vast amounts of water and are more expensive than gas and on-shore wind.

[castletyne]

...but we don't have the people to go down the mines...unless you mean the eu migrants?

Really

Edited December 10, 2013 by castletyne

[FalconFN]

Beware the evil CO2 fairy.

 

What we do makes not a jot of difference globally; we are a small island and should fill our boots with whatever we can.

 

If nuclear means cheaper long term leccy bills then lets 'ave it

It also makes no difference to Tesco if I walk out of their shop with armfuls of shopping and that will make my grocery bill smaller too, win-win. 1 person voting for UKIP will make no difference either but if many people do it will. We are 9th biggest CO₂ emitter, so hardly insubstantial, and when you consider that we have an opportunity to be a world leader in technologies and generation techniques it makes sense.

[Mungler]

Errrr 9th is inconsequential when I bet the top 3 when added together add up to more than the whole of the rest if the list put together.

 

9th is nowhere city.

 

Edit

 

I just looked at the list, and I'm right. The top 3 are more than the rest of the list added together. Accordingly if every country on the list (all 157 of them) not in the top 3 cut their CO2 emissions by 50% (which in real terms would be a Herculean effort) it wouldn't make any significant difference.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Mungler

[kdubya]

...but we don't have the people to go down the mines...unless you mean the eu migrants?

there's more than a few people my way who would argue that point.

 

KW

A UKIP supported using Europe as a shining example of what to do, surely not?

 

As I said, they are cleaner (5% still goes up the chimney) but they are less efficient than gas, produce vast amounts of CO₂, use vast amounts of water and are more expensive than gas and on-shore wind.

clean coal more expensive than useless onshore wind, :lol: give it a shake it needs a clear out.

 

KW

[FalconFN]

clean coal more expensive than useless onshore wind, :lol: give it a shake it needs a clear out.

 

KW

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

Plus factor in the inevitable future price rises in coal as it becomes more scarce and the added cost of 'cleaning' poorer quality coals as high carbon coals are depleted.....

[Sprackles]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

Plus factor in the inevitable future price rises in coal as it becomes more scarce and the added cost of 'cleaning' poorer quality coals as high carbon coals are depleted.....

You do know how much coal is still underneath us don't you..??................3196 million tonnes in total is the latest figure.

Plus under the sea just off the coast is another 2 Billion tonnes.....we aint gonna run out in many lifetimes and in fact since the industrial revolution and our years of heavy coal use..we have only used an estimated 25% of our reserves.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22432130

 

It just seems strange that it is cheaper to import than to mine our own.......still....when everywhere else starts running out....off we go again.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Sprackles

[FalconFN]

Just having coal underground isn't enough, it's to do with recoverability as most of the easy to get at coal has been mined in this country leaving the rest difficult, dangerous and expensive to recover, whereas places like China have huge open cast mines and they don't care about relocating whole communities to get it.

 

The article was mainly talking about gasifing coal, presumably in situ, to extract the energy and capture CO₂ before combustion, it is currently expensive but as the carbon price goes up (yes, I know, carbon is fine and safe in the atmosphere) the cost of extraction will be acceptable. Either way digging up and burning domestic coal should be left in the past in favour of newer, cleaner technologies (gasification, hydrogen production etc) that have been designed and developed in Britain and exported worldwide.

Edited December 10, 2013 by FalconFN

[Blunderbuss]

My inner greenie wants to embrace renewables. But... Wind farms are a bad advert for green energy. Bady sited, over subsidised and ineffecient. At some stage in the future we might crack renewable energy. Until then, fracking, nuclear, oil and gas are the only viable options. ***** on.

[maxus77]

just about to read through this thread .......(makes large cup of tea)

 

but can anyone sum up where UKIP sit in terms of country sports and shooting etc ? had quick look on there site last night and couldn't really find much

Edited December 10, 2013 by maxus77

[Penelope]

£28 million paid to 5 Scottish wind farms to dump, yes, dump surplus energy produced during a period of low demand (August 2013) if I remember the piece on R4 from a few weeks back.

 

there's more than a few people my way who would argue that point.

 

KW

clean coal more expensive than useless onshore wind, :lol: give it a shake it needs a clear out.

 

KW

[old rooster]

just about to read through this thread .......(makes large cup of tea)

 

but can anyone sum up where UKIP sit in terms of country sports and shooting etc ? had quick look on there site last night and couldn't really find much

Farage is deffo a fishing man at least!

[henry d]

there's more than a few people my way who would argue that point.

 

KW

 

May be so, but compared to those who were around 30+ years ago and the distinct lack of motivation for today`s young people to go down mines it would take high rates of pay to get them down there. Most of my family were in either the iron or coal industries and there is just one of them left alive now, for us to be a nation that was driven by coal, as wew were, then it takes a 180` turn around.

[old rooster]

How do you motivate people who get enough money to live on for doing nothing?? People who want more from life will always look to do more but those prepared to just jog along will just carry on doing that. Idleness has become a lifestyle for some and will be a very difficult thing to change in those people.

 

To strike a workable, fair balance is a right juggling act but the welfare state at the moment just isn't sustainable in the longer term. Too many taking out and not enough putting in. Trouble is when those who have spent their whole loves putting in come to the stage where they need to take out he cupboard will be bare!

[Nial]

We are 9th biggest CO₂ emitter, so hardly insubstantial, and when you consider that we have an opportunity to be a world leader in technologies and generation techniques it makes sense.

 

The world has not warmed in >15 years, yet CO2 concentration has continued to increase.

 

The world warmed as much between 1910 and 1940 as between 1970 and 2000.

 

The is _no_ empirical evidence that CO2 has driven the recent warming (it's ALL model based, and the models haven't predicted the halt in warming).

 

The only technology that we should be concentrating on is Thorium using coal gas and nuclear until that's sorted.

 

 

Nial.

[keg]

Wind does not stack up as a renewable. Take away the subsidy and the business case stinks.

 

It cannot be relied upon to perform if needed. Tidal is the solution.

 

I'm with KW on the Co2 capture. It's a long way off and as Nial has just pointed out, there has been no warming for some time. Someone in power needs to smell the roses and do something.

 

I'm all for being greener, recycling etc but the Greens " We need renewables" do not live in the real world. When faced with a logical argument they just go into " the science is proven" mode or shut up and smile smugly.

[FalconFN]

 

The world has not warmed in >15 years, yet CO2 concentration has continued to increase.

 

The world warmed as much between 1910 and 1940 as between 1970 and 2000.

 

The is _no_ empirical evidence that CO2 has driven the recent warming (it's ALL model based, and the models haven't predicted the halt in warming).

 

The only technology that we should be concentrating on is Thorium using coal gas and nuclear until that's sorted.

 

 

Nial.

We're going off topic a bit with climate change but I do have to answer this.

 

Your post shows that you really don't understand the debate on climate change at all, you simply cannot take any 15 year period and extrapolate the data as evidence for or against climate change, look at 1000 years instead. The Earth is warming, there is no debate about that, the debate is whether the rise in temperature and associated changes in seal level, weather systems, droughts, floods etc, is man made or part of a natural cycle. The empirical evidence that you say is missing is easily found online but to sum it up the rise in atmospheric CO₂ and the rise in global average temperature seem to go hand in hand and it has been known that CO₂ traps more heat from the sun for 150 years, but as correlation is not causation more evidence is needed. One important bit of evidence is that the wavelength of the extra radiation that is being trapped in our atmosphere is the same wavelength that CO₂ traps so it is likely CO₂ is the culprit and in the last 200 years we have increased the amount in the atmosphere by 50%. Almost all of the worlds climate scientists agree that man is likely to be the major contributing factor - that doesn't mean it is a fact, it just means that until the data says something different then that is the most likely cause.

[Cottonseed]

We're in more debt now because of the deficit not because of an increase in borrowing. One thing I do agree with the cons on is cutting the size of government and that is also a main policy of UKIPs. Having said we still have to leave the EU for us to be able to cut the ridiculous level of bureaucracy we now have.

The Conservatives have borrowed more since 2010 than Labour did in its years in office. I think you're mixed up between the deficit and the national debt.

[Dekers]

Farage is deffo a fishing man at least!

 

 

......and shooting man!

[Cottonseed]

LMAO

 

I do love the "keeping Great Britain British & protecting our heritage and culture" people think GB popped into existence around 1979, here is some news little Englanders

 

We are a mongrel nation we are the result of peoples travelling across the European land mass and beyond for 5000 years plus, in recent history we are made up from mass colonising and breeding from Scandinavian, Germany, Italian & French regions, we have a diverse mix of Jewish, Muslim, Hindu cultures, that spreads back hundreds of years. we are a melting pot

 

Another old chestnut I'm sick of hearing. This immigration happened over more than thousands of years. Existing and new populations assimilated very gradually. Immigration into Britain and a wider Europe since 1980 makes up the biggest mass migration ever--some 30 million over a relatively short period. It has been encouraged by those like the unelected Marxist Kommissars of the EU who want the breakdown of national and cultural identities. It was sold to us after two World Wars as an end to war, but has evolved to suit the social engineering ambitions of a small group who envisage obedient masses beneath a privileged, corporate elite--rather like Soviet Russia, a system much admired by people like, for example, Angela Merkel, who started her career as an informer for the East German security forces, snitching to her Stasi bosses about people bad-mouthing the party.

[poontang]

Angela Merkel, who started her career as an informer for the East German security forces, snitching to her Stasi bosses about people bad-mouthing the party.

 

Not sure that's quite right?

[Fisherman Mike]

This is bound to start a hot debate I'm sure but I'm looking for some advice and insight so hopefully we can keep this thread polite.

 

I was just reading their manifesto bullet points on their site and aside from the nuclear power and shale plans which worry me for environmental reasons I can't argue with anything else they wish to implement. Nuclear is the only way forward to satisfy the power demands of the burgeoning world population and protect the environment. We are so utterly dependant on oil there really is no other viable alternative. If there was we would be using it by now.

 

I am disillusioned with this wet and greedy Conservative government and I'm looking for someone who can rebuild this country. Do you think UKIP are looking in the right direction? No I don't ....personally I think they are just the National Front in a silk shirt....and its a coalition by the way.

My only concern is that they are a carefully crafted political front for a racist, EDL, Enoch Powell type party. I don't know enough about them to know if I'm well off the mark. There is a massive difference between sensible immigration policy and racism, from what I've read their immigration policy seems spot-on. Yes I agree you are spot on

 

I know policies are rarely implemented in the way they are promised pre-election but I'm holding out some hope here as I'm starting to think they are the party for me. You are entitled as a British citizen to vote for who you like if you feel their manifesto is the best for you then join them but I should perhaps consider what's best for the majority and UKIP always seem to come across as being rather self centred.

 

If you are pro-UKIP I'm keen to hear why and if you are anti I'm even more intrigued in case you know something about them that I should know!

[Cottonseed]

 

Not sure that's quite right?

 

Why not? Check it out.