Dave-G Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Or you could look at other organisations who have the cover in place already for £35 and ask could BASC have covered the cost in the £70 already charged to keep members. Yep - I is looking... at the media and parliamentary presence BASC get involved in whenever some oik looses it and risks causing more knee jerk reactions to further restrict our shooting freedoms, or some righteous group or individual feels civilians should not be allowed to keep guns and ammo at home. I can't remember the exact wording of the (preface?) of the newest firearms guidance but the bloke with his picture on the front claiming that shooting is a privilege - rather than a right - with good reason unless there is good reason not to allow it - spoke volumes to me about the mindset of the government on it's subjects firearms usage. Edited December 18, 2013 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yep - I is looking... at the media and parliamentary presence BASC get involved in whenever some oik looses it and risks causing more knee jerk reactions to further restrict our shooting freedoms, or some righteous group or individual feels civilians should not be allowed to keep guns and ammo at home. I can't remember the exact wording of the (preface?) of the newest firearms guidance but the bloke with his picture on the front claiming that shooting is a privilege - rather than a right unless there is good reason not to allow it - spoke volumes to me about the mindset of the government on it's subjects firearms usage. I am not arguing about what BASC do for shooters,all i have pointed out is that others offer cover cheaper,and while they may not have the presence of BASC seem to cover all the legal aspects that we as shooters may come across. Basc had an golden opportunity to announce that fees would remain the same but would also include all the new cover,all they are doing is responding on the back foot to all the people who never realised they did not have the cover and decided that other organisations did. To then announce that they were now providing the cover was great,but to then add as a side that the fees were increasing was hardly inspiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Of course there will always be a similar , not the same, insurance offering for less by some organisation or the other. But then again BASC delivers a lot more than just insurance. Some, in fact most, who join a shooting organisation see the clear benefit of paying that extra 80p or so a week to access all the other membership benefits, and support the political and media campaigns BASC delivers on. Even with the far below inflationary rise in membership fees that comes into effect o n1st March , the cost of full membership is still going to be below the £70 you (mis) quoted. Best wishes David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) My apologies to David the fee is £66 But if you pay over 10 months it is £4 extra You do the maths. Edited December 18, 2013 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) After my last disagreement with a head of firearms I will be joining BASC again this year their team spoke to him the same day still no result brought it up with the Chief Constable in a prep planned meeting that week. Problem solved in under 5 days in my favour as the FEO didn't know the law!!!! This insurance will help as well. I'm also a member of 2 other shooting organisations who did not offer to get involved only give advice. Edited December 18, 2013 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Great news!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Very well done BASC ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I am pleased to see that legal expenses cover will now be included "for appeals against firearms licensing decisions" as it is a logical move and necessary in the light of the competition from SACS and others who already offer it. Given that virtually all disagreements in this area get sorted by the firearms team in discussion with the police and without incurring legal costs, it should not be a costly overhead. My guess is that the rights and wrongs of issues about firearms licensing disputes are pretty obvious and resolved by the application of common sense and reason, particularly as the law in this area is so "grey" and open to interpretation. Does anyone know if BASC are incurring significant increases in their costs to provide this cover? At one point it was suggested that providing the additional cover would cost BASC around £3 per member which would make it a very nice little earner for the insurance company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I know the initial outlay is very steep, but if I planned on shooting for the next 20 years or more, I would look seriously at Life Membership. I did over 20 years ago at a cost of ............wait for it £150, paid in 2 instalments. Probably one of my better investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Dear All, Just to clarify a point that has been asked on another forum, the BASC legal expenses policy only covers firearms issues and does not offer a defence against accusations of wildlife crime. I am also lead to believe that SACS have dropped their legal expenses policy... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Dear All, Just to clarify a point that has been asked on another forum, the BASC legal expenses policy only covers firearms issues and does not offer a defence against accusations of wildlife crime. I am also lead to believe that SACS have dropped their legal expenses policy... David Sacs are still covering for legal expenses, only they have made the decision to cover it themselves, reading between the lines my understanding is that this is because; the insurance provider increased the fee greatly, the insurance provider would pick and choose which case to support, the time taken in making that decision was precious to the relevant licence holder They should now be able to act more quickly and precisely with a specialist solicitor (or whatever) It'll be interesting to see what experiences the BASC members will have of the policy provided by BASC in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Agreed they are self insuring from a 'pot' of money as I believe that they are going to build up on saved premiums. It seems the cost of claims was high, much higher than the premiums being paid up to now, hence the proposed massive rise which made it unviable to continue as I understand? Self insurance is all well and good and its what BASC have been doing for years, ( and criticised by some for doing so!) but it all depends on how large your pot is. An appeal you win could cost around £6000, and appeal you loose may run to over £30,000. So if you self insure you need a large pot in play from day 1, or run the risk of not being able to run cases to law. Having an insurer in play gives you that extra protection as the 'pot' already exists, and there is no reason at all why an insurer would delay the process, as the case is dependent on how viable it is in law as assessed by an expert lawyer. No one, insured or self insured would look to take a case you are most likely to loose, so decisions can and are made very quickly. Having this extra support and extra resource is exactly why BASC have launched this cover for our members. The BASC firearms team will still be the first point of contact, they will, with the support of the regional and country teams keep working with members to try and over come issues that cause refusals etc, and we will keep pressure on the licencing teams to improve their services, the legal expenses policy gives us an opportunity to significantly increase the services we offer to protect or members rights and interests. When discussions with licencing teams break down and the licensing teams are wrong in law, if they wont back down then the only alternative is to run an appeal in court. I am somewhat intrigued by the decision taken by SACS to drop their policy as for years they have made such a big issue of it saying they are the only origination with £100,000 of legal cover in place, this has been a key selling point for their membership as we have seen debated on this and other forums over the years, and just as the licencing teams around the UK are becoming more risk averse and far more likely to refuse or revoke and let the courts decide, SACS drop it...and of course BASC include it.... Yes it will be interesting how members and prospective members of both associations see this over the coming months. David Edited January 3, 2014 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Nice one David and good news it will be included in fees handy to have in the back pocket with some of the odd decisions there have been coming out of some firearms departments recently. is it, ain't owt for nowt these days, how much extra will it cost! I would genuinely like to see some figures attached to this...like, just how many may benefit, (these figures are known/researched in order to quote an appropriate premium) and how much the BASC fees are going up for this!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 If memory serves correctly, I believe David said a £3 -£3.50 increase in an earlier post on this thread. is it, ain't owt for nowt these days, how much extra will it cost! I would genuinely like to see some figures attached to this...like, just how many may benefit, (these figures are known/researched in order to quote an appropriate premium) and how much the BASC fees are going up for this!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 If memory serves correctly, I believe David said a £3 -£3.50 increase in an earlier post on this thread. I would genuinely like to see some figures attached to this...like, just how many may benefit, (these figures are known/researched in order to quote an appropriate premium) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I find it hard to believe a policy for this is going to cost 400k ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I find it hard to believe a policy for this is going to cost 400k ? Quite so, but I suspect the BASC will put the case the expected membership fee increase is to also cover many other things, hence why I would like to know the real figures attached to this, in all respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I would gladly part with £3.00 a year , to know that I have the financial means and to be represented in defending myself against a dodgy decision against me , made by my firearms licencing dept. Edited January 3, 2014 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm also very happy to pay an extra £3 for this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm also very happy to pay an extra £3 for this reason. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I'm NOT, and I cannot believe this is the actual cost, it will be pennies, not pounds. Hence why I asked the question in #38 I would genuinely like to see some figures attached to this...like, just how many may benefit, (these figures are known/researched in order to quote an appropriate premium) and how much the BASC fees are going up for this!? The risk is small, the vast majority of these problems are resolved by discussion, so what is the risk, what is the likelihood of the event, how much is the membership going up as a DIRECT result of this increase in insurance cover? Edit To be honest it may well be the BASC have actually negotiated this as a NO COST option, and are just promoting it as an increase in BASC Membership benefit, don't get me wrong here, I have no issue with that, its business. But don't expect me to be happy about paying more for Membership for something that is VERY VERY VERY VERY unlikely I will ever need! Edited January 3, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I'm NOT, and I cannot believe this is the actual cost, it will be pennies, not pounds. Hence why I asked the question in #38 I would genuinely like to see some figures attached to this...like, just how many may benefit, (these figures are known/researched in order to quote an appropriate premium) and how much the BASC fees are going up for this!? The risk is small, the vast majority of these problems are resolved by discussion, so what is the risk, what is the likelihood of the event, how much is the membership going up as a DIRECT result of this increase in insurance cover? Then don't pay it mate ! simple I don't like the idea that some has to go up in cost , no doubt the same as everyone else , however if it does I want to see something else on the table for my money . I am only speaking for myself now , but I think £3.00 per yr is nothing , plus it may , and I say MAY just shake up Firearms depts. regarding some of the stupid decisions they make , like the ones we all read about . If they know that now we have proper means of fighting our corner . just like the way the No win No fee days did , everyone was crapping themselves lol who knows ...... Edited January 3, 2014 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Then don't pay it mate ! simple I don't like the idea that some has to go up in cost , no doubt the same as everyone else , however if it does I want to see something else on the table for my money . I am only speaking for myself now , but I think £3.00 per yr is nothing , plus it may , and I say MAY just shake up Firearms depts. regarding some of the stupid decisions they make , like the ones we all read about . If they know that now we have proper means of fighting our corner . just like the way the No win No fee days did , everyone was crapping themselves lol who knows ...... You are not following me, if the cost is FREE to the BASC or even 50p-£1 per head just why am I meant to be happy? HOW MANY MEMBERS will benefit from this, I have asked the question, is it 1-100, 1-10000. 1-100000000000, what are the odds, where do you draw the line, would you be happy to pay BASC if they said we are adding £3 to the membership to cover you if you get run over by a bus, would you be happy, especially if they then said ...the odds are around 1-15,000,000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Supposedly it is costing nothing,but subs are going up £3 as they have not been raised since 2010,which is a bit of a coincidence. So membership will now cost £73 And for David that is £66 +£3 split over 10 months +£4 for the privilege =£73, in effect making it more expensive for the poorest members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 You are not following me, if the cost is FREE to the BASC or even 50p-£1 per head just why am I meant to be happy? HOW MANY MEMBERS will benefit from this, I have asked the question, is it 1-100, 1-10000. 1-100000000000, what are the odds, where do you draw the line, would you be happy to pay BASC if they said we are adding £3 to the membership to cover you if you get run over by a bus, would you be happy, especially if they then said ...the odds are around 1-15,000,000? I don't think bus would fit down the tracks where I shoot ;-) look real world , I know what your saying and if your not happy then you have every right to ask the question . as for the chances of wheather or not ,what if , whatever . I hope and prey I don't have to use it , that's for sure however for £3.00 IF I ever do , its would be great to know that I have some back up , and someone else is gonna pick you the bill . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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