What rifle for rabbit and another for deer?

[gameshooter09]

Hi

 

My shotgun license is coming up for renewal and I'm thinking of getting a firearms license to accompany it.

I've been told I need to list all the guns / accessories I need prior to making the application?

 

I'd be intended to shoot rabbits, foxes and deer..

I'm currently debating whether to go for a .22 or .17 hmr for rabbits - what are the main differences in accuracy / range?

 

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[bicykillgaz]

I would go for both .22 and .17 but if your limited to just one get the .22 it's stupidly quiet and cheaper to run, accuracy depends on ammo choice but most .22 ammo is acceptable for field use, I've not had anything group worse than 1" at 50yrds but generally most brands are 1/2" or there abouts through mine. I'm currently using cci target ammo at £30/500 shoot pretty much the same as eley subs in mine, rabbits don't complain so it must be marginal.

 

Eley subs use to be cloverleaf groups but don't seem as good since they've changed packaging so I don't see the point spending £64/500 when cheap target rounds do the job. I only try to head shoot so hollow points aren't needed, if I'm not confident of a head shot I leave them now.

 

.22 out to 80yrds for me on live stuff, I don't own a hmr so can't comment on range, I use a .22hornet for longer range vermin or fox out to 200yrds. Hornets a good tool but as you've mentioned deer no good for you. Unless you have a hornet as a rabbit/fox gun and ask for .243 for fox and deer.

[gameshooter09]

Thanks for the reply, some great advice!

I suppose I would be looking at longer range rabbit shooting, can't get close to them down here!!

 

So perhaps as you mentioned a .22hornet for long range rabbit and then a .243 for fox and deer?

How quiet are they if I fit a silencer?

[moorvale55]

Don't go for the Hornet, apply for a .22LR and .17HMR, the .22 is really quiet with a mod and subsonics but the .17HMR comes into it's own at greater distances. If you want to shoot foxes a .223 is great but if you want deer as well apply for a .243 then you can use it for fox and deer without having to buy 2 rifles. The .17HMR is fine out to 200 yards and flies with a very flat trajectory, it really is point and fire. The .22LR is only used now if noise is a problem. ATB.

Edited December 25, 2013 by moorvale55

[bicykillgaz]

Thanks for the reply, some great advice!

I suppose I would be looking at longer range rabbit shooting, can't get close to them down here!!

 

So perhaps as you mentioned a .22hornet for long range rabbit and then a .243 for fox and deer?

How quiet are they if I fit a silencer?

The hornet is really quiet compared to other cf's but you don't want it as your sole bunny gun, .22lr is the ultimate bunny tool. The hornet is just a nice compromise between a fox and bunny gun it means I can go out with one gun, I shoot paddocks surrounding a house and can use it for lamping and the owner can't hear me so it is quiet. It depends on your land mines not very big so for fox the hornet is all I need, for me it's perfect but it's not everyone's cuppa.

 

I hope to end up with .22lr, .22hornet, .223 or .243 eventually to cover me for everything but .223/.243 will wait till I get more land.

 

Everyone should own a .22lr IMO but as for deer calibre I'm no expert, .243 is the smallest we can have in uk for larger deer and a demon fox round so makes sense to me to start there.

[Archie-fox]

.22 for rabbits then 243 for fox/deer

 

Simple.

[spandit]

50BMG should cope with most things...

 

Failing that, definitely apply for .22LR and .17HMR, you don't have to buy them both at once. .243 is minimum for deer in England, I'm hoping to get a .308 in due course

[everycal]

.17 & .270 job jobbed

[bicykillgaz]

50BMG should cope with most things...

Failing that, definitely apply for .22LR and .17HMR, you don't have to buy them both at once. .243 is minimum for deer in England, I'm hoping to get a .308 in due course

I think You can have .22-250 and .223 for muntjacs and Chinese water deer but anything bigger is .243 minimum.

[telf]

.22lr without doubt,have had 2 hmrs and sold them both,now have 2 .22s,1 daytime,1 nightshooting,daytime out to 120yds once you learn your holdover points,quiet, cheap to run and you will learn your feildcraft with a .22

 

hmr is flat, to about 125yds with a 100yds zero with little holdover to 150yds,but as said you learn feilcraft with .22 and is alot more rewarding stalking into a rabbit than shooting it at 150yds imo

[spandit]

I think You can have .22-250 and .223 for muntjacs and Chinese water deer but anything bigger is .243 minimum.

Yes, you can, but if you can get a .243 then you can save the cost of a lesser calibre

[bicykillgaz]

Yes, you can, but if you can get a .243 then you can save the cost of a lesser calibre

I thought that was the case, didn't mean to cross examin what you'd said it was more to clarify it for my self. I intend to get a .223 or .243 eventually for fox but fancy paying for the odd stalk. I figured as it would be the odd stalk I'd go .223 as it's cheaper to run then pay for a muntjac stalk.

[welshwarrior]

22LR and .243 for my money

[simon1979]

my be .22lr for rabbits, but only upto about 100yards range though, if you want langer ranger go for either .17hmr or possibliy .22 hornet.

for foxs and and deer .243 for both, but again if your stalkinging larger deer maybe go for a 65x55 swed.

apply for sounds mods for all your rifles to, and you will need a lockable ammo box to.

atb

simon

[Scrumbag]

I like the idea of .22lr and .270W

 

.22 is a great bunny gun and .270W shoots flat for fox and will handle deer and meets the guidelines for wild boar as well

 

ATB,

 

Scrummy

[Alanl50]

17HMR for me for the rabbits and a .243 for your deer or foxes.

Alan

[al4x]

17HMR for me for the rabbits and a .243 for your deer or foxes.

Alan

That combination is what I use covers pretty much everything you can shoot in the uk,

[spandit]

.22LR ammo is cheap, mind, and applying for both costs nothing extra. My entire .22LR setup was £125

[MAB1954]

I have 22LR and 270W that covers what I need which is vermin and deer.

[kent]

I use .22 lr (with subsonic ammo) its as quiet as a dry fire with even an average moderator- until it finds is mark when you hear the thump, it is at its very best upto 70-75 yds though in highly skilled hands double that can be achieved under good conditions and circumstance (just don't expect that to come in a year or two). Then I step up to .22 Hornet, the hornet is a very good walking foxer and is well capable to around to all normal fox ranges in the right hands. As regards long range rabbits a 40-45 grn bullet offers half the windage or less of a hmr and is a dream to re-load (the HMR never was the 200 yds rabbit gun it was billed as). The HMR cannot replace the .22 lr on rabbits (on stealth, cost of ammo grounds) but might complement it and is only really a fox gun by opportunity at somewhat limited range. As the hornet uses half the powder of say a .222 or .223 yet can be used with the larger more efficient centre fire moderators its as quiet as and rifle that pushes a bullet at supersonic speeds can ever be. I should say that my own hornet set up is quieter than the HMR was (this is because you can fit a far better moderator).

Now the above will cover all your rabbiting medium range crow shooting up to say 200 ish depending on the shooter.

Now I have had many different deer rifles yet today I own only one the .243 win, it makes a cracking long range / windy day foxer, is light in recoil compared to the others (which makes it easier to shoot from slightly more awkward stances). It needs CAREFULL bullet selection for purpose however all 100 grn bullets do not perform the same and neither do all 90 / 95/85 etc. This is its only downside and is the reason some choose to slate it as a deer rifle. If used on larger deer you do need slightly more experience in shot placement to get a fast drop down on the beast and minimum meat damage. On Big deer you often lack a good blood strike, that not an issue if you have a dog but is if your following a blood trail yourself. As such it has drawbacks for the new guy (who has less experience of bullet performance, tracking and placement) and as such I recommend something a tad bigger unless you only hunt the smaller deer -it is a brilliant rifle in any hands for deer up to roe. Its always going to be noisy even after moderation mine can be heard 1/2 mile away at the next farmhouse. at the end of the day its double the powder charge of a .223 rem and almost four times the hornet!

 

So my suggestion is two fold

.22 lr , .22 hornet, then any 6.5mm ( for deer but deer alone)

OR .22 lr and .243 win (the .243 for fox, deer)

[Dekers]

There is no information of land, distances, topography, type of deer etc etc., so a response has to be very general.

 

If I had to go for just 2 it would be.......

.22lr for rabbit and close fox

.243 for longer fox and Deer

[interlock]

In my view .22 or 17hmr for rabbits.

 

For the bigger rifle look at the biggest or toughest animal you will hunt. Then Think about what will kill that effectively and efficiently and go for a rifle that it is in the middle of it's performance envelope.

 

ie... a woodland fallow buck (pretty tough, you want to anchor it well so you dont spend the rest of the day blood tracking). 140 gr plus delivered at over 2800 fps... so really a 6.5 mm plus bore size. maybe a 6.5x 55, 260 rem, 270 win, 7mm08, 7x57 .308 win 30-06 sprg. Then look at whether you will reload or ammunition availability and choose from there. I use a .30-06 sprg with 165 gr bullets loaded myself at about 2900 fps (data alone). I know that will kill everything i need to, i won't need to change my zero. it is not very damaging. But i load my own. If i didn't i might go with .308 win.

 

A .243 is a very popular choice. try to make sure you have one with a fast twist rate. this way you can use heavier bullets (i liked hornady 100 gr interlocks when i used a 2430 If you are using .243 on deer (IMHO) take your dog with you.

 

7MM08 is a very potent and effective round

 

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[kent]

Might I just say in the big NZ gov. deer cull they were shooting some of the biggest reds on the planet with the issued .222 rem. Placement and experience will always win out over a bigger gun. A deer with a non functioning heart will run equally as short or far hit with anything. As far as twist rate goes bullet shape and type then load selection will answer that in a std twist .243 win which is well capable with 100 grn bullets.

Like I say though .243 win on bigger deer regular needs a bit more than a novice behind the Butt and a slightly bigger gun is not too harmful as long as the shooter can still place the shots! The advantage really being in a better blood strike to follow not a faster kill placement does that. A dog can follow foot scent alone and blood we cannot even detect

Our deer act allows more than enough tolerance for a poor user

[cleaner4hire]

Imo 17 Rem for fox and under and anything 25-06 upwards for deer. Regarding the deer rifle, I think its more important to get a rifle that you like and will suit your shooting style, calibres are pretty much irrelevant as they will all drop a deer with a correct shot.

[interlock]

Might I just say in the big NZ gov. deer cull they were shooting some of the biggest reds on the planet with the issued .222 rem. Placement and experience will always win out over a bigger gun. A deer with a non functioning heart will run equally as short or far hit with anything. As far as twist rate goes bullet shape and type then load selection will answer that in a std twist .243 win which is well capable with 100 grn bullets.

Like I say though .243 win on bigger deer regular needs a bit more than a novice behind the Butt and a slightly bigger gun is not too harmful as long as the shooter can still place the shots! The advantage really being in a better blood strike to follow not a faster kill placement does that. A dog can follow foot scent alone and blood we cannot even detect

Our deer act allows more than enough tolerance for a poor user

 

Hi Kent,

I am afraid we have to agree to differ on some of these points... but not massively! But what i definately agree on is the use of a dog.

 

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