Steel or lead for pigeons?

[kitchrat]

What a load of bullshot you want to get out more

60 yards just a run of the mill range not a problem

I bow to you George! Let me know when you wake up!

[FatFreddysCat]

Yes us wildfowlers have killed some good birds with steel , would we use steel or any other non toxic if we did not have to, I think if we are being perfectly honest no would be the answer to that question.

 

Agree, yes I'd rather use lead but steel can be made to work as well. I used to use 1 1/2oz lead No.4 from my 1910 3" chamber 12 bore Tolley. To equal the performance of this combination I am now using a 3 1/2" 10 bore with 1 5/8 oz steel No.2. I am not getting noticeably more injured birds but have noticed that steel pellets often pass right through the bird. Hence, not all of the pellet energy is being absorbed by the bird. I have noticed that more birds fly on a short distance and then drop dead than when using lead. Whether this is due to pellets passing through the birds I'm not sure. Be interested to hear others thoughts on this

Another thought. Whereas lead pellets often drag a bunch of feathers into the bird, steel doesn't do this. Does this help the pellets carry on through the bird?

[pestcontrol1]

I bow to you George! Let me know when you wake up!

Lol How do you know my name

nowt much wrong with well made steel shells

Edited April 15, 2014 by pestcontrol1

[Catamong]

 

Agree, yes I'd rather use lead but steel can be made to work as well. I used to use 1 1/2oz lead No.4 from my 1910 3" chamber 12 bore Tolley. To equal the performance of this combination I am now using a 3 1/2" 10 bore with 1 5/8 oz steel No.2. I am not getting noticeably more injured birds but have noticed that steel pellets often pass right through the bird. Hence, not all of the pellet energy is being absorbed by the bird. I have noticed that more birds fly on a short distance and then drop dead than when using lead. Whether this is due to pellets passing through the birds I'm not sure. Be interested to hear others thoughts on this

Another thought. Whereas lead pellets often drag a bunch of feathers into the bird, steel doesn't do this. Does this help the pellets carry on through the bird?

 

You've come to exactly the same conclusion as me on this one, I do believe that the pellets will often pass straight through the bird, it's odd that others don't appear to have experienced this..?

 

Cat.

[Catamong]

You are perfectly correct, and no, it's not just you.

 

If you poop off a number 4 steel and a number 6 lead both having a MV of 1300 ft/sec, at 40 yards they will both have the same energy figure within 0.01 of a decimal place. If two pellets of differing sizes have the same energy, then the smaller of the two will be more lethally effective. We know that the lead 6 will kill pigeon beyond that range as will, probably, the steel 4 but for steel to be as equally effective as the lead at the 40 yards a No1 sized shot would be required.

 

Steel does work but your findings although limited, would enforce the fact that 'going up two shot sizes' is a load of old squit and does steel no favours at all. In this instance (40 yards) because we are not talking maximum range capability of either material, the consequences are not as severe as they would be if one was to go up 2 sizes from lead to use steel at the known maximum effective range of the given lead shot.

 

Edit: Missing word added.

 

I don't understand this post....

 

In your first paragraph, you appear to be saying that larger diameter steel shot needs to be used to deliver the same effect, yet in para 2 you appear to be contradicting yourself, please explain to us ballistic ignoramuses..?

 

Cat.

[anser2]

Over the weekend I thought I would try out steel on pigeons I found that in my experience this weekend it was not effective and I will not be using it again. It is ok for wild fowling as we have no choice, but, to say it is more environmentally friendly I would question it. The cartridges I used had a full plastic cup and not only were they not effective on the pigeons. I was scattering the field with plastic wads.

My friends and I normally use lead and felt wad. The cartridges were 30g size 4 steel, normally use size 6 lead.

What have other found or is it just me?

Cheers Mick

 

Mick what brand of steel were you useing , not Express by any chance ?

 

 

 

 

Steel is useless on wildfowl and should be banned as inhumane. Better to be shot dead than wounded to die later of blood poisoning as the steel goes rusty. .

 

 

What a stupid statement made by someone who does not know what they are talking about. The majority of game , pigeons and all my wildfowl are shot with steel these days. The majority of people have shot with old style loads or are shooters do not have the experience to shoot with it. Its true there some pretty rubbish steel on the Market , but RC or Gamebore loads are brilliant. Steel shoots differently to lead and I know when I started using it I did not do very well with it. Today it’s a different story indeed I find it hard tp hit stuff when I go back to lead now .

 

Steel wounds no more that lead unless people use it beyond is range of 45 yards for a quality load. To shoot steel go up 2 or 3 shot sizes , pick a fast load and if you are shooting at long range use a full choke afterchoke and you will not miss lead once you learn how to shoot it. My preferred steel load for pigeons is Gamebore 32 gr in 3s or 4s. Its cheaper than a lot of lead too.

[wymberley]

 

I don't understand this post....

 

In your first paragraph, you appear to be saying that larger diameter steel shot needs to be used to deliver the same effect, yet in para 2 you appear to be contradicting yourself, please explain to us ballistic ignoramuses..?

 

Cat.

Would it clarify it if, ' only just the' was inserted between, "up" and "2" in para' 2? Should you still not understand, then searching 'energy density' will no doubt turn up a reference with a better grasp of English prose than I possess.

[kent]

I don't really shoot pigeons, there are no crops here (got two in the tree outside the window at present nesting and they are very safe). I hate plastic wads but love steel I can when need be kill Geese with a number 3 or 4 steel duck shell and I shoot a lot of crows with steel (as I have more of it than I do lead and am used to it) , I cannot comprehend how it shouldn't work very well for woodies when it drops big geese out the sky and crows. The metal detector thing is a fair point mind though I don't know how those work. Perhaps a great factor using steel is in confidence, if you are not confident you will hesitate and shoot bad leading to wounders and misses.

[kitchrat]

 

Mick what brand of steel were you useing , not Express by any chance ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a stupid statement made by someone who does not know what they are talking about. The majority of game , pigeons and all my wildfowl are shot with steel these days. The majority of people have shot with old style loads or are shooters do not have the experience to shoot with it. Its true there some pretty rubbish steel on the Market , but RC or Gamebore loads are brilliant. Steel shoots differently to lead and I know when I started using it I did not do very well with it. Today it’s a different story indeed I find it hard tp hit stuff when I go back to lead now .

 

Steel wounds no more that lead unless people use it beyond is range of 45 yards for a quality load. To shoot steel go up 2 or 3 shot sizes , pick a fast load and if you are shooting at long range use a full choke afterchoke and you will not miss lead once you learn how to shoot it. My preferred steel load for pigeons is Gamebore 32 gr in 3s or 4s. Its cheaper than a lot of lead too.

Thank you for your (presumably) well-considered reply. This applies to "Pestcontrol1" too.

 

The killing power of shot depends on it's kinetic energy, given by the formula E = 1/2(m times v squared), where E is the enegry, m is the mass and v is the velocity. E being proportional to v squared means that if you halve the velocity, the energy is reduced bya factor of 4.

So we need a good high v and need to preserve v.

 

V is preserved by the momentum, m x v, but reduced by wind resistance. The only way to do keep mv high is to increase m, either by using a dense material (lead) or by using a bigger pellet. The bigger pellet is, to some extent, self defeating because it becomes larger and therefore increases the wind resistance.

A larger pellet will also penetrate less well, (try stabbing a raw potato with the sharp end then the blunt end of a pencil!)

Larger pellets mean less pellets for the same load, increasing the pellet count will reduce v unless you use more propellent.

Less pellets means a less dense pattern, so at higher ranges you are less likely to hit a lethal point and kill cleanly.

You can improve pellet density by using a tighter choke, but not with steel. It seems you are using tight choke, I don't know why we shouldn't but that's what the manufacturers tell me.

 

So, with steel shot at higher range, you end up with, slower. less dense, less energetic pellets in a less dense pattern. Not the sort of thing a sporting shooter should want to do.

 

George D can kill birds at massive ranges because:

a) he is the world's best shot

b) He's using good fast lead shot

c) He's using extra full choke

d) he's getting the bird in the middle of the pattern

 

In the USA, duck shooters are having to use steel, but have gone to 3 1/2 shells with magnum loads of 1 1/2 oz of, say No4 shot and good high velocities. They say this combination has partly overcome the handicap of steel but have had to reduce their range expectations too. I don't fancy shooting 200 of them in an afternoon!!

 

The Eley lightning is a step in the right direction but to achieve the 1600 fsp velocity can exceed the proof pressures of most guns. (f you can get them)

 

Most of the gun shops round here don't even stock steel, because they can't sell it.

 

Finally. yes, if you learn to use steel (different leads I guess, less ambitious on range) I expect you can do quite well.

 

So, that's my opinion, it may be different to yours but that doesn't make it wrong!! (or stupid)

[Penelope]

Kitchrat, have a look at 'A long one but a good watch', 2nd down on the right.

 

http://www.mpkcustomcallsandwoodwork.com/#!useful-links-and-videos/c8x4

[Onno]

I am quite surprised that even do you only have a lead ban for duck and gees you also use steel shot on other of game. In Holland we have a total lead ban for many years now and the majority of hunters use steel shot because of its low price. But many hunters agree that lead shot kills much better.

 

Regular steel shot is usable at distances up to 35, 40 yards but not much further. I have shot game at longer distances but it is (almost) impossible to kill it cleanly and in most cases you will end up with a wounded bird. Even at shorter distances you always end up with quite a lot of winged birds.

 

Shooting at 60 yards with standard steel shot cartridges I would certainly not advise because you will never be able to consistently kill game stone dead at such distances. Simply because the weight of a steel pellets is to light to retain enough energy. Maybe this will improve if you use some super magnum cartridges but I still have my doubts

 

The type of steel shot is use:

 

Pigeons and grows over decoys 28,32 grams of number 5 or 6

 

Pheasants, ducks 32 grams or more number 5,4,3

 

Gees 32 grams ore more number 4,3. (Most of the game I shoot are greylag and white fronted gees and normally I would prefer Winchester 34grams, number 4 or gamebore 36grams of number 3)

 

For hares and foxes I will always use bismuth or tungsten. Because steel shot has not enough shock effect, especially if you don’t hit it right they will just run for hundreds of meters before they die.

 

I hope you can understand my English as it is not of a very high level.

 

[kitchrat]

Kitchrat, have a look at 'A long one but a good watch', 2nd down on the right.

 

http://www.mpkcustomcallsandwoodwork.com/#!useful-links-and-videos/c8x4

Super-interesting Penelope!

I can't help thinking it shows what it set out to show and a couple of things surprise me -

halving the lead at close range at skeet for a 15% muzzle velocity increase Surely at close range most of the lead you need is for personal reaction time, hammer dropping, detonator ingnition and charge ignition/expansion. The muzzle-target time difference must be negligable.

Also, they could use Improved modified (3/4) and full chokes, we're not supposed to.

 

Living as I do much of the year in Canada, many of my comments come from local hunter's experience as well as mine. I admit to not have practised at the sporting clays range, but will this year!!

[kitchrat]

 

I am quite surprised that even do you only have a lead ban for duck and gees you also use steel shot on other of game. In Holland we have a total lead ban for many years now and the majority of hunters use steel shot because of its low price. But many hunters agree that lead shot kills much better.

 

Regular steel shot is usable at distances up to 35, 40 yards but not much further. I have shot game at longer distances but it is (almost) impossible to kill it cleanly and in most cases you will end up with a wounded bird. Even at shorter distances you always end up with quite a lot of winged birds.

 

Shooting at 60 yards with standard steel shot cartridges I would certainly not advise because you will never be able to consistently kill game stone dead at such distances. Simply because the weight of a steel pellets is to light to retain enough energy. Maybe this will improve if you use some super magnum cartridges but I still have my doubts

 

The type of steel shot is use:

 

Pigeons and grows over decoys 28,32 grams of number 5 or 6

 

Pheasants, ducks 32 grams or more number 5,4,3

 

Gees 32 grams ore more number 4,3. (Most of the game I shoot are greylag and white fronted gees and normally I would prefer Winchester 34grams, number 4 or gamebore 36grams of number 3)

 

For hares and foxes I will always use bismuth or tungsten. Because steel shot has not enough shock effect, especially if you don’t hit it right they will just run for hundreds of meters before they die.

 

I hope you can understand my English as it is not of a very high level.

 

 

Excellent post, many thanks for backing me up, support from a thinking shooter who has to face the lead ban is very valuable!!

Many thanks!!

[cocknee]

Thank you for your (presumably) well-considered reply. This applies to "Pestcontrol1" too.

 

The killing power of shot depends on it's kinetic energy, given by the formula E = 1/2(m times v squared), where E is the enegry, m is the mass and v is the velocity. E being proportional to v squared means that if you halve the velocity, the energy is reduced bya factor of 4.

So we need a good high v and need to preserve v.

 

V is preserved by the momentum, m x v, but reduced by wind resistance. The only way to do keep mv high is to increase m, either by using a dense material (lead) or by using a bigger pellet. The bigger pellet is, to some extent, self defeating because it becomes larger and therefore increases the wind resistance.

A larger pellet will also penetrate less well, (try stabbing a raw potato with the sharp end then the blunt end of a pencil!)

Larger pellets mean less pellets for the same load, increasing the pellet count will reduce v unless you use more propellent.

Less pellets means a less dense pattern, so at higher ranges you are less likely to hit a lethal point and kill cleanly.

You can improve pellet density by using a tighter choke, but not with steel. It seems you are using tight choke, I don't know why we shouldn't but that's what the manufacturers tell me.

 

So, with steel shot at higher range, you end up with, slower. less dense, less energetic pellets in a less dense pattern. Not the sort of thing a sporting shooter should want to do.

 

George D can kill birds at massive ranges because:

a) he is the world's best shot

B) He's using good fast lead shot

c) He's using extra full choke

d) he's getting the bird in the middle of the pattern

 

In the USA, duck shooters are having to use steel, but have gone to 3 1/2 shells with magnum loads of 1 1/2 oz of, say No4 shot and good high velocities. They say this combination has partly overcome the handicap of steel but have had to reduce their range expectations too. I don't fancy shooting 200 of them in an afternoon!!

 

The Eley lightning is a step in the right direction but to achieve the 1600 fsp velocity can exceed the proof pressures of most guns. (f you can get them)

 

Most of the gun shops round here don't even stock steel, because they can't sell it.

 

Finally. yes, if you learn to use steel (different leads I guess, less ambitious on range) I expect you can do quite well.

 

So, that's my opinion, it may be different to yours but that doesn't make it wrong!! (or stupid)

Agree and I don't know of anybody who would use to steel to shoot game.

[CaptainBeaky]

...

You can improve pellet density by using a tighter choke, but not with steel. It seems you are using tight choke, I don't know why we shouldn't but that's what the manufacturers tell me.

...

 

Tighter chokes do tighten the pattern with steel, but because steel doesn't compress going through the choke, the same constriction has a greater effect.

Full choke was originally designated as such because that was the point (40 thou) at which a tighter constriction gave no further tightening of the pattern.

The same point occurs with steel at around 20 thou, hence the differing constrictions of steel-rated chokes.

Shooting steel through a 40 thou choke would put a lot of strain on the barrel, for no improvement in pattern (and quite possibly a worse pattern due to slamming the shot together too hard).

My MP153 has steel rated chokes, and according to the figures in the manual, the full choke has a constriction of just over 20 thou, or half choke in old money.

 

Important note:

The above is based on a lot of reading, and a fair understanding of the behaviour of materials under stress.

Some or all (or less) may not be entirely consistent with reality!

I should perhaps preface it with a IMSEO (in my somewhat educated opinion)

P

[motty]

Tighter chokes do tighten the pattern with steel, but because steel doesn't compress going through the choke, the same constriction has a greater effect.

Full choke was originally designated as such because that was the point (40 thou) at which a tighter constriction gave no further tightening of the pattern.

The same point occurs with steel at around 20 thou, hence the differing constrictions of steel-rated chokes.

Shooting steel through a 40 thou choke would put a lot of strain on the barrel, for no improvement in pattern (and quite possibly a worse pattern due to slamming the shot together too hard).

My MP153 has steel rated chokes, and according to the figures in the manual, the full choke has a constriction of just over 20 thou, or half choke in old money.

 

Important note:

The above is based on a lot of reading, and a fair understanding of the behaviour of materials under stress.

Some or all (or less) may not be entirely consistent with reality!

I should perhaps preface it with a IMSEO (in my somewhat educated opinion)

P

In my experience half choke is just not tight enough for steel at extended range. That is why I (and many others I know) use full or extra full chokes with steel, to achieve the required pattern density with steel.

[kitchrat]

Depends on how early in the morning.

It might be black

Then it would be night, not morning!!

[Rick 684]

Just had a call from Mick and he's using lead cartridges and his having a field day, Knocking loads out of the sky today

and I can honestly say he doesn't miss much and that's the high ones to.

thumbs up for lead with pigeons....

[pestcontrol1]

Thank you for your (presumably) well-considered reply. This applies to "Pestcontrol1" too.

 

The killing power of shot depends on it's kinetic energy, given by the formula E = 1/2(m times v squared), where E is the enegry, m is the mass and v is the velocity. E being proportional to v squared means that if you halve the velocity, the energy is reduced bya factor of 4.

So we need a good high v and need to preserve v.

 

V is preserved by the momentum, m x v, but reduced by wind resistance. The only way to do keep mv high is to increase m, either by using a dense material (lead) or by using a bigger pellet. The bigger pellet is, to some extent, self defeating because it becomes larger and therefore increases the wind resistance.

A larger pellet will also penetrate less well, (try stabbing a raw potato with the sharp end then the blunt end of a pencil!)

Larger pellets mean less pellets for the same load, increasing the pellet count will reduce v unless you use more propellent.

Less pellets means a less dense pattern, so at higher ranges you are less likely to hit a lethal point and kill cleanly.

You can improve pellet density by using a tighter choke, but not with steel. It seems you are using tight choke, I don't know why we shouldn't but that's what the manufacturers tell me.

 

So, with steel shot at higher range, you end up with, slower. less dense, less energetic pellets in a less dense pattern. Not the sort of thing a sporting shooter should want to do.

 

George D can kill birds at massive ranges because:

a) he is the world's best shot yes 22 time or 23

B) He's using good fast lead shot not as fast as home load steel

c) He's using extra full choke how do you know me and others dont use full

d) he's getting the bird in the middle of the pattern cant anyone else kill a bird in the middle of the pattern

 

In the USA, duck shooters are having to use steel, but have gone to 3 1/2 shells with magnum loads of 1 1/2 oz of, say No4 shot and good high velocities. They say this combination has partly overcome the handicap of steel but have had to reduce their range expectations too. I don't fancy shooting 200 of them in an afternoon!!

 

The Eley lightning is a step in the right direction but to achieve the 1600 fsp velocity can exceed the proof pressures of most guns. ( thats why most people proof there loads so that they dont go over pressure )

 

Most of the gun shops round here don't even stock steel, because they can't sell it.

 

Finally. yes, if you learn to use steel (different leads I guess, less ambitious on range) I expect you can do quite well.

 

So, that's my opinion, it may be different to yours but that doesn't make it wrong!! (or stupid)

every one has there own opinion and your entitled to it

to get a good steel load i think that you have to load your own to get the speed and pattern that you want most of the steel loads that i shoot are around the 1600 + fps at muzel some are faster as we all know that you need fast steel to kill well and i am not just talking 24g i am talking goose loads 34g up with 4mm plus shot size.

There is plenty of people on hear who shoot steel even at pigeons yes everyone including me would like to stoot lead at everything but we cant so a lot of us go to the next thing that we can use and is afordable so steel is the one for most.

I have shot driven game with a light steel game and had a very good day even the chap who was picking up commented that i had not had a runner all day and he could"t beleave it when i told him i was using a light steel load dead is dead steel or lead

[kent]

You know real science has proved a bumble bee cannot possibly fly- Yet it does! Although I am a fan of crunching ballistic numbers Kinetic energy actually does not kill stuff a pellet penetrating deep enough and meeting with something vital does.

 

What I can tell you is a good factory steel BB load will go through a pinkfoot's breast and out its back at around 40 yards and a decent number 3 will kill Mallard and Pintail dead in the air if you do your bit and don't hope for flukey odd pellet kills at silly range like we have likely all had on occasions in our past.

 

A few facts on steel that prevent comparison with lead on a like for like

28 grams is a lot of steel number 4 and only a few number 4 in lead (don't equate load weights across the to materials)

lighter loads can be driven faster ( speed is king as long as it patterns it kills and you get more pellets per gram anyhow)

steel does not deform (less fliers and flukey I or 2 pellet kills at long range from poor or lucky shots)

it patterns tighter for a given choke ( I have can choke it tighter than mod. but the energy will fail before pattern on wildfowl)

 

 

You cannot compare steel and lead they both have up sides and downsides, the sooner the industry and the shooters get their head around this fact the better. BTW 3 1/2" super mag are not the norm for shooting duck in the USA that's just bumkum outside a bit of as they call it "pass shooting" in the UK we tend to call that shooting too high. If someone wishes to use steel on pigeons get on with it, if it didn't work lets face it guys who might waste their time with it (like we all know bumble bees do fly)

[kitchrat]

You know real science has proved a bumble bee cannot possibly fly- Yet it does! Although I am a fan of crunching ballistic numbers Kinetic energy actually does not kill stuff a pellet penetrating deep enough and meeting with something vital does.

 

What I can tell you is a good factory steel BB load will go through a pinkfoot's breast and out its back at around 40 yards and a decent number 3 will kill Mallard and Pintail dead in the air if you do your bit and don't hope for flukey odd pellet kills at silly range like we have likely all had on occasions in our past.

 

A few facts on steel that prevent comparison with lead on a like for like

28 grams is a lot of steel number 4 and only a few number 4 in lead (don't equate load weights across the to materials)

lighter loads can be driven faster ( speed is king as long as it patterns it kills and you get more pellets per gram anyhow)

steel does not deform (less fliers and flukey I or 2 pellet kills at long range from poor or lucky shots)

it patterns tighter for a given choke ( I have can choke it tighter than mod. but the energy will fail before pattern on wildfowl)

 

 

You cannot compare steel and lead they both have up sides and downsides, the sooner the industry and the shooters get their head around this fact the better. BTW 3 1/2" super mag are not the norm for shooting duck in the USA that's just bumkum outside a bit of as they call it "pass shooting" in the UK we tend to call that shooting too high. If someone wishes to use steel on pigeons get on with it, if it didn't work lets face it guys who might waste their time with it (like we all know bumble bees do fly)

I think I agree with a lot of what you say...

[wymberley]

You know real science has proved a bumble bee cannot possibly fly- Yet it does! Although I am a fan of crunching ballistic numbers Kinetic energy actually does not kill stuff a pellet penetrating deep enough and meeting with something vital does.

 

What I can tell you is a good factory steel BB load will go through a pinkfoot's breast and out its back at around 40 yards and a decent number 3 will kill Mallard and Pintail dead in the air if you do your bit and don't hope for flukey odd pellet kills at silly range like we have likely all had on occasions in our past.

 

A few facts on steel that prevent comparison with lead on a like for like

28 grams is a lot of steel number 4 and only a few number 4 in lead (don't equate load weights across the to materials)

lighter loads can be driven faster ( speed is king as long as it patterns it kills and you get more pellets per gram anyhow)

steel does not deform (less fliers and flukey I or 2 pellet kills at long range from poor or lucky shots)

it patterns tighter for a given choke ( I have can choke it tighter than mod. but the energy will fail before pattern on wildfowl)

 

 

You cannot compare steel and lead they both have up sides and downsides, the sooner the industry and the shooters get their head around this fact the better. BTW 3 1/2" super mag are not the norm for shooting duck in the USA that's just bumkum outside a bit of as they call it "pass shooting" in the UK we tend to call that shooting too high. If someone wishes to use steel on pigeons get on with it, if it didn't work lets face it guys who might waste their time with it (like we all know bumble bees do fly)

Well posted.

 

As I see it, we have three choices. We can ignore any useful cross referencing to lead and spend several decades finding out how steel performs (as we did with lead) before we reach a conclusion. We can engage in testosterone fueled arguments laughingly called a debate and get absolutely nowhere. The stupidity of this option is only exceeded by the clown who originally said, "just go up two sizes for steel from lead". Or we can use reason.

 

Kitchrat said, "A larger pellet will also penetrate less well.... (than lead) (my brackets). There's the problem which only when known can a solution be found.

 

Although lead and steel cannot be compared like for like, never-the-less, there is a link. Ballistically speaking, unlike bullets which can have various different profiles, all shot is a sphere which is fortunate that it makes calculating the BC for any given pellet size of any given material quite straight forward and which makes number crunching quite simple. A few months back we nearly had a table pinned on this site which would have put PW to the fore regarding the understanding of steel shot capability.But sadly, this was not to be.

 

If we settle for production shot of, say, 1425 ft/sec MV for both lead and steel, it is simple to show that a steel No 3 performs as a lead No 6. This is because the (lack of) penetration of the steel shot even though its energy is higher is not backed by the necessary velocity. Similarly, it can be shown that with the lead having the same MV but upping the steel to 1600, a steel No 5 will perform as a lead No 6. This knowledge has been available for over 20 years, and probably far longer, that I know of. The earliest that it appeared in the UK as far as I'm aware was in 1996 (but I knew it was coming). Again, to my mind, it seems that we've wasted a lot of time and hot air.

 

If you take the energy of any shot size and divide it by the shot's cross sectional area, you will obtain its Energy Density. Should any different shot material/size produce a like figure, then you can be reasonably sure that their terminal ballistic performance on any given target will be pretty much the same. Our friends across the pond take it a stage further and deduct what is termed the Threshold Energy - that required to punch through feather and skin (0.4 ft/lbs for mallard for example) before doing the calculation.

 

Anyone enjoying number crunching might like to give it a go. Using Imperial measurements can be a pain because of the number of decimal places involved so metric units are far easier. If you do have a go but hit a problem with finding the velocity of any given pellet at any given range, I can help.

 

NB The shot sizes detailed above are English to avoid any manufacturers' differing ideas.

[Highbird70]

Gents,

 

When I was invited by actionpigeons to shoot on his permissions, we used steel, with my 20 gauge, I noticed very little difference in kill/wounded ratio, then again, I was shooting in the 35 yard range.

 

Mark

[marsh man]

All very interesting information ,but why use steel for pigeons in the first place, I can understand the P W member who keeps hawks and is getting 50p for a frozen pigeon that's fair enough but while we can use lead and were not forced to use a non toxic shot by a silly European law lets carry on using it . I know a lot of us would be moaning if we had to change.

[richg]

All my pigeons go to feed birds of prey, i get a good price for them frozen, collected and no grading.