guest1957 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Gimlet - I'm afraid we are wasting our time. There are those who do not wish to see, but belittle others who have a pair of eyes. I genuinely pity those who fall into that group. I genuinely wish to see hard numbers based on statistically sound principles. What irks me is when people pluck ideas from thin air and expect it to be taken as gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) You are either deliberately missing the point or you have a genuine talent for it. You cannot have hard numbers as no-one knows how many illegals there are. Add those to the student visa, holiday over-stayers etc. The Government will not go out of its way to get a more accurate figure than the naively low figure they trot out. It seems to satisfy the sheep element in the population, so why would they. What irks me is when someone expects me to accept a view that a five year old would laugh at. Thin air might be your speciality, but you need to get out more. Edited July 16, 2014 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 There are FAR too many immigrants here and it needs sorting sooner rather than later. A factory that I worked at in 2000 had 99.9% English workers. Today, in 2014, there are 99.9% foreigners working there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I genuinely wish to see hard numbers based on statistically sound principles. What irks me is when people pluck ideas from thin air and expect it to be taken as gospel. can you tell me what your estimate is please,genuine request as I would like to see how you can count those here by right IE EU member's, who can come and go as they will ( been on a Calais to Dover ferry recently?) against those from outside the EU and here illegally, and those here via extended visa. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 You are either deliberately missing the point or you have a genuine talent for it. You cannot have hard numbers as no-one knows how many illegals there are. Add those to the student visa, holiday over-stayers etc. The Government will not go out of its way to get a more accurate figure than the naively low figure they trot out. It seems to satisfy the sheep element in the population, so why would they. What irks me is when someone expects me to accept a view that a five year old would laugh at. Thin air might be your speciality, but you need to get out more. So why should we multiply any number by 8 then? You are making sweeping comments with no grounding and then getting upset when these are challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 can you tell me what your estimate is please,genuine request as I would like to see how you can count those here by right IE EU member's, who can come and go as they will ( been on a Calais to Dover ferry recently?) against those from outside the EU and here illegally, and those here via extended visa. KW The ONS is always a good place to start: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2014/index.html Whilst I'm prepared to accept they won't be 100% accurate (what statistics are?) I'm prepared to bet that they are prepared on much more sound principles than the multiples being thrown around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I genuinely wish to see hard numbers based on statistically sound principles. What irks me is when people pluck ideas from thin air and expect it to be taken as gospel. I've already given you hard numbers based on statistically sound principles. The 200,000 are those we can count. They are a matter of public record. The figure comes from the collated information gathered by local authorities. It is incontrovertible and published by The Office for National Statistics and Migrationwatch UK. (The ONS link you've posted corroborates this and shows that the figure for 2014 is "estimated" to rise by at least 17,000). The population of York offered for statistical comparison is similarly unassailable. But we know also that these numbers are by admission very far from the whole story.The "estimate" adjunct in the ONS's published account indicates that the real number is unknown and therefore logically it must be higher. But are not the limited numbers which we can confirm stupendously damaging enough? How much more reality do you want? Edited July 16, 2014 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) guest1957 - Can you not grasp that the Government has no idea how many people over stay or enter illegally. As for your less than 100% accurate statistics - are you seriously saying that they have any credibility whatsoever? Illegals or over-stayers don't inform the Government of their residence. I will post no more on the subject as I honestly can't stomach the naivety. It is tragic. Edited July 16, 2014 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 The ONS is always a good place to start: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2014/index.html Whilst I'm prepared to accept they won't be 100% accurate (what statistics are?) I'm prepared to bet that they are prepared on much more sound principles than the multiples being thrown around here. Problem is your figures dont realise the fact that A) we have illegals.amount unknown till we have an amnesty (which will happen thanks to the left) B) of the net emigration most will be Brits leaving the country and taking their money with them, IE out of the country. C) of the immigrants looking for work,a vast proportion will be sending money OUT of the country and claiming benefit for dependents out of the country!IE more out of the country. and if you think that "just 200K" a year is sustainable think again, there are schools NOW that are in-taking 50 foreign nationals per TERM not school year! again not sustainable. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I will post no more on the subject as I honestly can't stomach the naivety. It is tragic. You proclaim to have a greater level of knowledge yet can provide absolutely nothing to back that up when questioned on it- thus my sentiments echo yours above. Problem is your figures dont realise the fact that A) we have illegals.amount unknown till we have an amnesty (which will happen thanks to the left) B) of the net emigration most will be Brits leaving the country and taking their money with them, IE out of the country. C) of the immigrants looking for work,a vast proportion will be sending money OUT of the country and claiming benefit for dependents out of the country!IE more out of the country. and if you think that "just 200K" a year is sustainable think again, there are schools NOW that are in-taking 50 foreign nationals per TERM not school year! again not sustainable. KW I made no claims on sustainability or otherwise. I was just questioning the 'knowledge' that seems to be thrown around these threads with no supporting evidence whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 That was all part of the labour plan. i love a good conspiracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Gimlet - I'm afraid we are wasting our time. There are those who do not wish to see, but belittle others who have a pair of eyes. I genuinely pity those who fall into that group. Okay, I'll nibble. Yesterday the project that I work for had the second community event based around the forthcoming commonwealth games, there were more eastern European families there than the local indigenous families. The question is; Why? Simple, they have a sense of community, they had no idea about commonwealth or much about the games. Yet they are a tiny minority here and wish to integrate and share their culture, the locals are too insular and self absorbed, molly coddled by a system that either keeps them poor or keeps them in the benefits system. We have allowed this to happen and when someone from another country comes here and shows up our community for what it is, all hell breaks lose and we are prepared to blame anyone but ourselves, usually a faceless organisation, government, lefties, bleeding heart liberals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 ...and they eat what they catch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 ...and they eat what they catch.... **** me you're alive ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Which group? Government, lefties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 guest1957 - Can you not grasp that the Government has no idea how many people over stay or enter illegally. As for your less than 100% accurate statistics - are you seriously saying that they have any credibility whatsoever? Illegals or over-stayers don't inform the Government of their residence. I will post no more on the subject as I honestly can't stomach the naivety. It is tragic. I recon that Jonathan is hacking other peoples accounts..... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 i wont join in as the thread will then be pulled,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 guest1957, I have but one question for you, with an island that has a finite land mass such as ours, do you not think it prudent to restrict all immigration before our quality of life is diminished to such an extent that life becomes intolerable ? or put simplistically, how many people can we sustain on this island ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I don't really want to get involved in these debates anymore because the blustering, aggressive purple-face brigade automatically try to patronise and belittle anyone who questions their divine wisdom with such things as facts or evidence - not everyone by any means, there are well thought-out points from various people from every side. The genuine question from guest1957 (even though no stance has been taken) is just another example of how a simple question can automatically make you a sandal-wearing, vegan, socialist that wants England to be under wind-powered shariah law. It's always the same 'villains' - BBC, Labour, EU, Easter Europeans, Liberals, those with heart complaints, people on benefits (unless they look and sound like you) and the bloody Environment Agency. Why can't we have a new set of poster-villains for a change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 . Why can't we have a new set of poster-villains for a change? You volunteering ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Essex Hunter Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Bring back Enoch....................... TEH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 It's all very well until your own quality of life is compromised then it's not such a wonderful thing. I would send most back, we don't need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 guest1957, I have but one question for you, with an island that has a finite land mass such as ours, do you not think it prudent to restrict all immigration before our quality of life is diminished to such an extent that life becomes intolerable ? or put simplistically, how many people can we sustain on this island ? If you have flown over the UK you may noticed, there is plenty of space to build. The problem is not that we don't have space, it is that we are not investing in services and infrastructure to accommodate the influx. Government is using all the new tax revenue from working immigrants to pay for stuff like reducing the deficit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 guest1957, I have but one question for you, with an island that has a finite land mass such as ours, do you not think it prudent to restrict all immigration before our quality of life is diminished to such an extent that life becomes intolerable ? or put simplistically, how many people can we sustain on this island ? Don't fear we have a long way to go before we are full, we are way behind India, Netherlands, Belgium, and about 50 others, in fact it will take almost 170 years of constant immigration of 200,000 a year to reach the same population density as the Netherlands and nearly 500 years to get to Barbadian proportions - if you want to compare us to Gibraltar then you'll have to wait almost 5,000 years! It isn't about population density, it is more about services and infrastructure You volunteering ?? Only if the poster is of me playing tennis and scratching my flabby rear.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 If you have flown over the UK you may noticed, there is plenty of space to build. The problem is not that we don't have space, it is that we are not investing in services and infrastructure to accommodate the influx. Government is using all the new tax revenue from working immigrants to pay for stuff like reducing the deficit. and when we have built on it all what do we farm on to feed these working immigrants who are reducing HA HA HA the deficit, what is it you start to pay tax on er 10K how many immigrants working as bar staff, waitresses in coffee bars or in other "service sector jobs" are paying any meaningful tax on their earnings? KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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