team tractor Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I feel for the little girl. When she grows up she will realise how bad this is and that's if she don't right now. She killed another human at 9 years old . Who cares who's to blame etc as someone is now missing a dad/brother/son from a terrible accident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 There is a split second extra in that clip than from the one on the news. Take the rights and wrongs and ethics of a 9 year old shooting an Uzi on full auto out of things, bottom line is that is is legal where it happened. It does look like the instructor is poorly located (his right hand is on her back and not on the gun) he is clearly not in control of the gun at all, he seems to have made a mistake and has paid the ultimate price for his mistake. Very sad indeed. My Son went clay pigeon shooting with us when he was 9 or 10, the place we were shooting supervised him at all times and the instructor always assisted him when firing, the instructor was in full control of the gun at all times. Clearly the guy in USA wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Very tragic and avoidable accident with extreme consequences for both involved as well as both families. I wonder whether the age of the pupil and the fact she was a girl played any part? Most instructors over here have to be sure the girl and her family know how close the instructor will get to such a pupil and whether it would be permissible to touch her as part of the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpoonlouis Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 100% Instructor error, wrong gun, wrong calibre and wrong place to stand. Did he just make a mistake? Did he get a bit complacent? Who knows. Las Vegas is crammed with stuff you only do in Vegas and most of the time folks love it and come home safe, not in this case. It isn't the first fatal shooting by a child with an Uzi in the US, time they rethought what is sensible to offer youngsters as a shooting experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I believe that it is correct to assume that the girl was too inexperienced to fire such a gun in full auto mode the fault lies on the instructor. Of course many uninformed people will point out that it's crazy the way that americans let their kids shoot guns failing to note that in UK many kids also shoot guns as well, but they are better supervised. Incidents like this don't put me of, when my kids grow up they will be shooting guns no doubt. dont think i would hand my grand kids an uzi however much i may like shooting its not about being "uninformed" its about common sense its not like its designed for an afternoon on the clays. not sure you comparing it to british kids works as im sure if british kids were given machine guns to shoot im sure there would be a few nasty accidents to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 One tragic accident is one too many and my thoughts are with those involved. But I wonder how many kids say shoot full autos in the states every day of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'll play devils advocate here - I would let my 9 year old (he is 10 now) shoot an Uzi full auto. Of course properly supervised. At the end of the day it is a judgement call on the individual. There are adults I would not put a weapon into the hands of. The Uzi really does have very little recoil - and looking at that video I cannot think how it swung to the side like that on its own accord. It is a very smooth and balanced weapon. No muzzle flip that I noticed, and certainly nothing side to side. I suspect the instructor knew this too hence his position. I think the girl flinched, wasn't holding the weapon firmly, and swung the weapon to the side. Full auto rifles like an AK47 - a totally different beast - much larger calibre, much more recoil, much less controllable without experience. I would not put that in the hands of a child. A colleague of mine posted a video on youtube a couple of years ago of his daughter (similar age) shooting 8-10 rounds through a full-auto Uzi - she handled it quite well and shot very straight - nothing like what was seen in the video above. A tragic accident which hopefully lessons will be learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I would let my 9 year old (he is 10 now) shoot an Uzi full auto. Of course properly supervised. At the end of the day it is a judgement call on the individual. There are adults I would not put a weapon into the hands of. Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) No experience+poor adult judgement+inappropriate firearm = disaster waiting to happen Vs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZE-EDGw2vo Edited August 28, 2014 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 No experience+poor adult judgement+inappropriate firearm = disaster waiting to happen Vs And I wouldn't mind betting she started shooting at around 9 eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Probably before! Any idea why the video didn't show in my post but has in your reply?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 And I wouldn't mind betting she started shooting at around 9 eh? she may well have done. But the kid didn't shoot the instructor in the head because she was 9. She shot him because of dreadful supervision and incredibly poor judgement on the part of the instructor. He should have been standing behind her and bracing her hand while she pulled the trigger. I can't say for definite, but I wonder whether he wasn't there because she was a 9 year old girl and child protection issues would have stopped him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 dont think i would hand my grand kids an uzi however much i may like shooting its not about being "uninformed" its about common sense its not like its designed for an afternoon on the clays. not sure you comparing it to british kids works as im sure if british kids were given machine guns to shoot im sure there would be a few nasty accidents to. What about the kids who can fire fully aotomatic firearms safely and responsibly, should they lose that priviledge because some instructors can't appreciate what capabilities a certain child has got? I have taken many novices to the shooting range and they were all adults. I didn't trust them from the start to shoot the most powerful calibres, started them on 22s and then worked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I am afraid that I just do not see the point in people having uzi type machine guns ok perhaps if you are a drug dealer or in the Israeli army where they just want to kill everything that moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 You do know in the UK you can get the similar gun in 22lr with the long barrel and arm brace? What is the point of having guns in the first place? Oh yeah that's right, fun, if you don't like guns you should not be on a shooting forum. Your comments relating to drug dealers or Israeli army are just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I am afraid that I just do not see the point in people having uzi type machine guns ok perhaps if you are a drug dealer or in the Israeli army where they just want to kill everything that moves. I don't see the point in having a bolt-action .22lr when you can get an accuratised semi-auto to do the same job but allow for faster follow up shots if needed, doesn't mean i think bolt-actions don't have their place in the tool bag though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't see the point in having a bolt-action .22lr when you can get an accuratised semi-auto to do the same job but allow for faster follow up shots if needed, doesn't mean i think bolt-actions don't have their place in the tool bag though Exactly. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz1986 Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 completely bonkers!! what kind of instructor allows it to start with and also who stands directly to the left of any auto rifle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Got my USA family with us at present and they were horrified to hear this and they are big on guns and hunting. General feeling was wrong for kids of this age to shoot and wrong for anyone to have semi-autos (other than hunting shotguns). Not all yanks are cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't see the point in having a bolt-action .22lr when you can get an accuratised semi-auto to do the same job but allow for faster follow up shots if needed, doesn't mean i think bolt-actions don't have their place in the tool bag though I said nothing about semi-autos I am talking about full autos apart from the military use for killing people what would you use one for playing games with it and that is just what got this guy killed and fare from being old skool I think that you will find that bolt action guns are still widely used for hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I said nothing about semi-autos I am talking about full autos apart from the military use for killing people what would you use one for playing games with it and that is just what got this guy killed and fare from being old skool I think that you will find that bolt action guns are still widely used for hunting. i think you might have missed his point slightly... to put it into perspective, lets put it this way... i COULD say, i dont see the point in a mercedes clk when a ford fiesta will do the same job, just a little slower. after all, merc clk's are just for drug dealers arnt they? or for people who want to flout speed limits. if i had the opportunity to own an uzi, would i own one? i honestly dont know. but you need to look at the bigger picture of american gun culture, which is ENTIRELY different to our own. i would hope that should anyone ever try and take your right to own a double barrel shotgun away, and limit you to a single barrel only, that everyone else didnt take a similar stance to yours on the private ownership of guns, JUST because they dont think that you need one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 Easy to be critical I think the USA legal system will kick in 1 Parents will sue ground for stress etc 2 Ask the makers of UZI is it Israel if they made it for child use they will say no. Slightly different I know but a well known maker of manual clay traps went to court when youngster hurt using one his defense he made them for adults not like push bikes adult sizes and child sizes. 3 The ground is then at fault will get sued 4 What training did ground give instructor. Easy to be critical after event but if you have not seen familiarity and over confidence in the shooting world in the UK you either have not done much or go round with your eyes closed. this to me was just that over confidence Always look at big picture no good saying instructor in wrong place why was he in wrong place. I agree with that sentiment but the people that can say are those trained in UZI use I totally agree not all Americans are gun nuts the ones I have met have been great people whether they shoot or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) completely bonkers!! what kind of instructor allows it to start with and also who stands directly to the left of any auto rifle!!!Correct, he should have been stood behind her, holding the gun with herA silly loss of a life due to complacency /sheer bad firearms handling/ training Atb Flynny Edited August 30, 2014 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 i think you might have missed his point slightly... to put it into perspective, lets put it this way... i COULD say, i dont see the point in a mercedes clk when a ford fiesta will do the same job, just a little slower. after all, merc clk's are just for drug dealers arnt they? or for people who want to flout speed limits. if i had the opportunity to own an uzi, would i own one? i honestly dont know. but you need to look at the bigger picture of american gun culture, which is ENTIRELY different to our own. i would hope that should anyone ever try and take your right to own a double barrel shotgun away, and limit you to a single barrel only, that everyone else didnt take a similar stance to yours on the private ownership of guns, JUST because they dont think that you need one... Going by your logic why do we let people have hand grinads after all they are good for fishing as well as killing people and if you had a filed with loads of crows or pigeons in why bother to shoot them one at a time when you can do the job in one go with a grinade or even a UZI oh what fun we could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Going by your logic why do we let people have hand grinads after all they are good for fishing as well as killing people and if you had a filed with loads of crows or pigeons in why bother to shoot them one at a time when you can do the job in one go with a grinade or even a UZI oh what fun we could have. We don't 'let people have hand grenades'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.