ditchman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 i imagine this has already been done to death.......... does a plasi-wad throw a tighter pattern than a fibre wad ? if it does how much more of a restriction at the choke would it make ...5thou ?....10thou ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It is generally accepted that they throw tighter patterns as the shot does not leave the cup until its out of the barrel where as shot pushed by fibre starts to spread the instant it leaves the barrel , no idea what that means in more technical terms ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 It is generally accepted that they throw tighter patterns as the shot does not leave the cup until its out of the barrel where as shot pushed by fibre starts to spread the instant it leaves the barrel , no idea what that means in more technical terms ! For clays you use a choke size down for fibre wads e.g. if you'd use halves on plaswad you put quarters in for fibre. That's received wisdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 For clays you use a choke size down for fibre wads e.g. if you'd use halves on plaswad you put quarters in for fibre. That's received wisdom. Surely you meant the other way round. 1/4 for plastic wads and 1/2 for fibre wads. Personally I leave the chokes alone, it don't make a great deal of difference in any of my guns to the point you'd notice. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Surely you meant the other way round. 1/4 for plastic wads and 1/2 for fibre wads. Personally I leave the chokes alone, it don't make a great deal of difference in any of my guns to the point you'd notice. Figgy Well, I did say it was received wisdom. But no, that's not what the man said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) The ONLY way to find out for sure would be to put your favoured fibre wad cartridges through your gun at the Pattern Plate and then use a plastic wad shell to compare. Personally, I would expect the plaswad shell to shoot a slightly tighter pattern as Fenboy has said above. Might just have to visit the pattern plate this morning! Edited September 3, 2014 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 just cartridges had an independent tester compare their fibre with plastic wadded own CSPs,the difference was negligible...i have always just shot fibre. The top shots in competitions all chose plas wad so I guess at the margin they feel plas wad superior.....plastic wads do seem to mark barrels more and make a mess...on my own land I hate seeing the damn things and prefer fibre. As for choke impact god knows.....but as choke is a matter of reality not nominal choke if you are so inclined go and shoot paper and start counting holes if you wish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 plaswads are better, faster, lower pressues, less deformations, better fringes on any loads 1300 or above. they reload faster, and generally are considered to be more efficient ie lower powder charges, faster speeds than the fibre counterpart. also push hard lead slow speeds, really uniforms the pattern but chokes then become almost nonsensical. thats the general rule, but there will be acceptions as some wads are poo. as a guy who messes with stuff, plaswads are better, i get more consistancy....at speed. as a traditional shooter, dont like seeing too many wads about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 Pretty much all the land I shoot over is fibre only, so I don't keep plastic wads in the place. Means I won't get caught out. Maybe if you can outshoot Peter Wilson and George Digweed the difference counts. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) The new Lyalvale SUPREME .410 fibre shell has been a long time coming. I tried a handful of 3" last week. It was a change not to see a plastic wad putting on its brakes and falling to litter the ground. Edited September 3, 2014 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) You have to remember that the main reason plastic wads came into being in the first place was because the cartridge manufacturers simply had to get away from fibre wads if they were ever going to be able to run their loading machines at the speeds they wanted to. As a result, to sell the idea to the rather staid shooters, (who would have had a big natural aversion to plastic), a lot of exaggerated claims were made about plastic wads. Some may be true, many were no more than marketing hype. Many have gone into folk law now as sustained myths. Ive never been convinced its not all just an elaborate hoax. Edited September 3, 2014 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 You have to remember that the main reason plastic wads came into being in the first place was because the cartridge manufacturers simply had to get away from fibre wads if they were ever going to be able to run their loading machines at the speeds they wanted to.As a result, to sell the idea to the rather staid shooters, (who would have had a big natural aversion to plastic), a lot of exaggerated claims were made about plastic wads. Some may be true, many were no more than marketing hype. Many have gone into folk law now as sustained myths. Ive never been convinced its not all just an elaborate hoax. ...and plastic wads were cheap as chips to make! I don't believe the savings were passed to the shooters! Remember the Eley Grand Prix 30 gram of the 1960s? A card over the powder, TWO 3/8" Kleena wads and a1/11" card under the shot. Four wads, four operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehb102 Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Saw the Coach I trust today who wanted to know where I find the twonks who tell me this stuff. He agrees that you would tighten your chokes for fibre, but also says I should leave half and half in and throw all my others away. Just thought I'd update. I swear the guy made sense at the time, he talked about needing to bring the looser pattern closer in, but then physics was never my strongest subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Saw the Coach I trust today who wanted to know where I find the twonks who tell me this stuff. He agrees that you would tighten your chokes for fibre, but also says I should leave half and half in and throw all my others away. Just thought I'd update. I swear the guy made sense at the time, he talked about needing to bring the looser pattern closer in, but then physics was never my strongest subject I will have to blame your current hormonal inbalance as you are not blonde! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 4, 2014 Report Share Posted September 4, 2014 Very few targets can't be broke with 1/4 choke on most shoots. If he said 1/4 & 1/2 choke that's standard sporting set up. 1/2 & 1/2 can be a bit tight for some close targets. You should tell him the pigeon watch massive have spoken and were all experts on every subject under the sun Yep looser pattern for closer stuff, he's right Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeker Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 When BASC tested cartridge patterns and choking they shot 10 per test. Comments that stand out in the write up ..... ' there are more important aspects of shooting to concentrate on for good and effective results than the unpredictable effects of choke.' 'The variation in performance from cartridge-to- cartridge means that the effects of choke cannot be accurately predicted.' ' .. results showed no tighter patterning of PW over FW. In 11/25 comparisons F increased pellet density. In 13/25 .. no difference' Seems they counted pellet holes not percentages for some reason! So it's conclusive that 8 out of 11 pigeons prefer a high fibre diet to being noaksed. The leaflet 'Cartridge Patterning-we need to do out better'is still on the BASC site, but not the article on wads etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I think shooting at a static sheet of paper - in one dimension does not tell the whole story. For all pellets will arrive in time regardless of the quality of the pellet. To see the shot string you would need to shoot at a rotating disc or the side of a large moving truck so you can determine the length of the shot string and time between first and last pellet arriving and gaps in the string. Logic suggests you will get less pellets damaged if held within a plastic cup. The setback forces at the instance of fiireing should be reduced by the better give in a plastic wad and the pellets should be distorted less as they travel up the barrel and through the chock as the cup keeps the pellets away for the metal of the gun. The fashion for speed, faster and faster cartridges must also have an impact on pattern via the performance of the wad. However I guess it would be unlikely that I could blame the wad type for a miss the biggest factor is the person behind the trigger. Edited September 5, 2014 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 Saw the Coach I trust today who wanted to know where I find the twonks who tell me this stuff. He agrees that you would tighten your chokes for fibre, but also says I should leave half and half in and throw all my others away. Just thought I'd update. I swear the guy made sense at the time, he talked about needing to bring the looser pattern closer in, but then physics was never my strongest subject first of all, those twonks, have fired thousands of shells per year, and even in some cases patterned them ! second of all, tighten your chokes compared to what? tighten your chokes from what original standard that should be set as a "standard"? as for fibre shells? what fibre shells 32g 4? or 21g #9s as they both will respond really different to the constriction. what i think your coach meant to say was, "find a shell that patterns well through whatever choke even if it is fibre" - thats pretty much a staple statement. third, depending on dicipline you should evaluate what choke to use by the shells, and pattern, your coach has pretty much stood on the fence, and you will neither be at and advantage or disadvantage with those 1/2-1/2, comparatively over the years, this setup will do you well throughout multiple diciplines only trap or fitasc may be an issue.... however shell selection, choke and gun selection plays a big part of these extreme disciplines. forth, i wouldnt throw away your other chokes because of the third point, and it would be an advantage in skeet to either use slightly open chokes for those really close birds, for the game of "skeet" could i recommend "skeet" chokes, as for station 4 maybe slightly tighter? but your shells may be good enough ! i would keep them for a while first. fifth, the guy probably makes sense, because you havent patterned shells or even evaluated different shells, as there are some ultra high performance shells and normal clay chaff. sixth, i have no clue on what bringing the looser patterns closer in? maybe he just meant shoot tighter chokes? seventh, ignore the interweb, just go shoot some ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) i imagine this has already been done to death.......... does a plasi-wad throw a tighter pattern than a fibre wad ? if it does how much more of a restriction at the choke would it make ...5thou ?....10thou ? mix up a pocket of fibre and plas wad cartridges and shoot them just dip your hand into your pocket don"t look at the cartridge just chamber it and shoot it same choke same gun same target same finger on the trigger and you wont be able to tell the difference PS do you pay proper money or monopoly to the coach Edited September 5, 2014 by pestcontrol1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted September 5, 2014 Report Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) So what you are all saying is fibre is as good if not better than plastic so cpsa, basc or government may as we'll improve the image of shooting an ban all plastic wads except for non-toxic shot. Ouch!! Edited September 5, 2014 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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