flynny Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Crack on I say, if I'm in im in, I've got nowt to hide.As Long as you ain't on the job with the wife who cares, my guns are all stored correctly and securely, Davyo just read your post, great minds think alike ha ha(reason for edit) What's 10 mins of your time?? Atb Flynny Edited October 13, 2014 by flynny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 This is reminiscent of the police turning their suspicions on photographers several years ago. Any time someone was out with a camera (particularly an SLR) curtain twitchers were encouraged to call the police because - well, photography is 'subversive behaviour'. Never mind that covert photography can be done a lot better without an SLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Are we within our rights to leave them officers outside take the details numbers etc and then ring the firearms unit to check their correct? Figgy Figgy when FEO came for my sons interview for his FAC/SGC,he was rather shocked when I asked for id.Is a uniform not enough,no mate its not seeming that I am going to let you through my door and let you have access to my gun cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I was even told not to put shooting organisation stickers in vehicles, as I'd get my guns stolen and my tyres let down, poo smeared etc So where are shooting organizations supposed to advertise? This is just a way not for us to advertise shooting to others to get them into the sport. I see this as a political job. If you belong to an organisation supporting firearms or hunting or target shooting don't advertise it since we'll think you're being lax on security and then revoke your ticket.....b*****s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I would recommend once these checks start being done, people who have had the police come around unannounced relate their story on here on this thread so we can see the nature of the calls and they way that the police conducted themselves. What was asked, what did they want to see, time, hours, was there an intent to catch people out or genuinely asking to see if security was important. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I would recommend once these checks start being done, people who have had the police come around unannounced relate their story on here on this thread so we can see the nature of the calls and they way that the police conducted themselves. What was asked, what did they want to see, time, hours, was there an intent to catch people out or genuinely asking to see if security was important. etc. Good idea, it would be interesting to see how many on here actually get a visit and what area is most checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 The Countryside Alliance have just started an e-campaign to challenge this new ACPO campaign - http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ca/campaigns-shooting/ask-your-mp-to-oppose-the-acpo-firearms-campaign - highly recommend getting involved. Sent a response to m y MP - we'll see what he says ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 It would appear that the ‘Home Office’, as I have come to believe they always have, view the shooting community as at least as great a threat as the terrorists they are attempting to thwart and not as an unexploited asset in the war against it! you are right, that is why firearms licencing was introduced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Let's not forget the 1920 Firearm Act was introduced due to fear from a communist revolution, not due to public safety. Therefore the Police and Government have never wanted the "wrong people" to get firearms what those wrong people are I don't quite know since criminals with a lengthy record are already forbidden to own them. I guess the wrong peopel might be based on who we want to demonise and if it's a certain political party in charge thier opponents might be "the wrong people". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I find this latest HO initiative outrageous, and assuming the shooting organisations weren't even consulted ( I'm assuming so anyhow, as this is the first I've heard of this initiative; two days before it comes into effect) says more than I ever could about how significant our representative organisations are viewed by HO ministers. It would appear the CA are on the ball however...may be worth joining, but BASC, as usual, not wanting to rock any boats, are stating we should comply by recommending 'a sensible and cooperative approach to this kind of situation.' But all members can rest assured BASC will challenge 'robustly' (post event of course) any wrong doing. Out of interest how does someone 'challenge' anything after the event? I will contact the NGO and report back their response. The most annoying aspect of this is the assumption that legitimate firearms owners are being viewed with what can only be described as suspicion; for being firearms owners? Not only this the reasons the police can use are just so unbelievably open to interpretation by the one body which is enforcing the initiative, namely the police. 'Where it is judged necessary.....' the reasons why this would be applicable are limitless, open to interpretation and wide open for abuse. 'based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat...' any neighbour, past girlfriend or someone with an axe or agenda to grind could soon construe a reason to phone the rozzers. Again, open to interpretation and abuse. 'risk of harm...' as above. And the icing on the cake 'the Police ' (will be the judge) 'that this action is both justified and proportionate'. To what extent? If someone refuses to allow entry because they're in the middle of their tea, or it isn't convenient for whatever reason, what are the police going to say? "Ok, we'll come back in an hour". You're 'avving a laff guv, aintcha. Wont their actions, given any of the reasons apply which the HO has specified, be exactly the same as their actions would be if calling on a non-firearms owner called on for the very same reason? Is it only a matter of time now before all legitimately owned firearms are seized for 'the greater good' in the name of anti-terrorism? Is this 'initiative' the first step? Edited October 13, 2014 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Got to say I'm pretty disappointed with BASC for not opposing this more. This is just another attack on responsible owners and says a lot for how the Government/Police view legal firearms owners. What are they hoping to achieve other than wasting time and money? What happens to people who don't store their firearms at their home address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 No probs with unannounced visits , it's just a shame that the police don't have more power to give criminals more unannounced visits instead of letting them committ crime after crime just to have enough evidence so they don't get laughed out if court. But then again it's so much easier to keep law abiding citizens in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 No probs with unannounced visits , it's just a shame that the police don't have more power to give criminals more unannounced visits instead of letting them committ crime after crime just to have enough evidence so they don't get laughed out if court. But then again it's so much easier to keep law abiding citizens in order. I don't have a problem in sense that my security as its all up to standard. Its more the fact that they don't trust people they have granted licenses to ensure their security is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Here we go:http://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/news/ngo-responds-to-acpo-firearms-security-campaign Disappointed to some extent, but at least they have criticised ACPO's encouragement of the general public to report any concerns they may have regarding legitimate firearms owners. Like I said, it is all wide open to interpretation and abuse. There can be little doubt that ACPO are deliberately targeting legitimate firearms owners whom they (ACPO) obviously regard as a threat. It would seem the very act of showing an interest in firearms, albeit legitimately, is regarded with suspicion. How many knocks per week constitutes harassment? Edited October 13, 2014 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm going to start making unannounced visits to the police station to check the security of my sensitive data on their system! I probably won't, I expect it's a hassle They'll probably conclude the same about my guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parapilot Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm not keen the standard Jo bobby coming around, they ain't got a clue what they are looking at and it's just stupid. Do they know what's secure? Do they know the rules? No. If it's an inspection it should be done by a officer that knows his stuff and deals with firearms daily. Plus not keen an 2 highly visible officers at my door, I keep having firearms very low profile, most of my neighbors don't even know, that would put an end to that, or it would start rumors that I'm some kind of criminal. And 3rd the missus would kill me if she had not cleaned the house top to toe, kids do a good job of wrecking the place most days be embarrassing if it's untidy. Guns are always secure, but I'd much rather it be an feo is his own clothes. All low key, and who knows the difference between a auto and pump, 22rf and .303! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayDT10 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I don't have a problem in sense that my security as its all up to standard. Its more the fact that they don't trust people they have granted licenses to ensure their security is in order. your right. But I must say If was to grant somone the paper work necessary to purchase guns I'd want to be able to feel free to check up on them if I felt the need. Their job must be pretty nerve racking at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) And all 3 happened to me on saturday...................... Except can't blame kids for wrecking the place! Edited October 13, 2014 by HDAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'd much rather it be an feo is his own clothes. All low key, and who knows the difference between a auto and pump, 22rf and .303! Mine has twice arrived in a marked car for routine business, one was a few days after my mrs fell down the stairs and we had an ambulance out - neighbours must think I'm a wrong un Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Nothing new here - when James Anderton was Manchester Chief constable back in the late 70's /early 80's this was a regular occurrence - on one occasion I remember at 0200 in the morning - no apology for disturbance or anything, just the excuse gunshots heard in area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 0200 in the morning - no apology for disturbance or anything, just the excuse gunshots heard in area I hope this isn't the case; gunshots are heard on a daily basis around here, even out of season. When am I going to get some sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Not impressed with the BASC response - essentially 'comply'. I think the police need to come up with some further detail too. Are they doing random checks, or is it truly based on information received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umney531 Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Why worry if your guns are under lock and key as they should be there shouldn't be a problem there welcome to come to my house anytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Juicer Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 some things concern me about this...... Police concern that members of the shooting community may be “vulnerable to criminal or terrorist groups” How does one become vulnerable to a criminal or terrorist group? surely there must be some law against forming these "illegal and terrorist groups" “The public and especially the shooting community can greatly assist the police in gathering intelligence and protecting our communities by being vigilant around firearms licensing. The shooting community is close, and will recognise sudden behavioural changes in fellow shooters that could cause concerns. However, they may not feel like they can act and the Crimestoppers hotline empowers people to voice concerns anonymously.” How can the public and or the shooting community gather "credible" intelligence to protect the community? How can an individual / community be vigilant around firearms licensing? The new Home Office guidance states: “Where it is judged necessary, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm, the police may undertake an unannounced home visit to check the security of a certificate holder’s firearms and shotguns. ? Police firearms enquiry officers and neighbourhood officers have visited shooting clubs and registered firearms dealers in recent months to highlight concerns surrounding the potential for terrorists or mass killers to exist within the shooting community. Highlighting concerns for the potential terrorists and mass killers? what? How does one become vulnerable to a criminal or terrorist group? sadly its too easy, just follow a gun club member home from the range, then hijack him at gun point and steal his pistols and rifles. like just happened here this week........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Why worry if your guns are under lock and key as they should be there shouldn't be a problem there welcome to come to my house anytime Why should they need to? They checked you and your security out when they gave you your ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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