warning

[kent]

Again Martyn Jones ex MP and BASC member of all of two years ( yes he ran last year) in running for BASC National council. Remember to check his voting history on line in his time spent as an MP. FYI he voted in favour of a ban on foxhunting so in my own individual opinion will be a very, very poor choice for our sport although he states "Having seen our sport eroded by the antis" yes honest its public record . MPs by profession have to be good at getting elected of course telling you what you want to hear and keeping quiet about the "other stuff" being a firm favourite, so just make sure you cast a vote this year even if you normally don't bother please, please cast your vote and don't let the wrong man in by default.

Look many of the candidates have been members for 20- 30 years or even greater the choice of avoiding a wrong un shouldn't be too hard. Spread the word

[Richie10]

He should have been kicked out.

[Scully]

I didn't vote for him last time for this very reason; smacks of hypocrisy in my opinion. Voting isn't an issue with which I'll be involved this time.

[wymberley]

Should the above comments be valid, then surely this also throws doubt upon the nature of the proposer and seconder.

[Penelope]

Thanks for the heads up and good to have you back.

[anser2]

Good to see you back on PW Kent.

[Scully]

Post deleted cos I didn't bother to check my facts first.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Scully

[neil82]

if he`s only been a member for 2 years you have to question his motives for standing for council membership, and as already said his proposers also need a little bit of investigation, has BASC been infiltrated by closet anti`s, and if so what is their stance on this issue?

[robbiep]

He (Jones) also voted for a complete ban on handguns, and voted against any amendment for the excemption for Olympic competitors. So much for sticking together eh? Was he a member of BASC back then I wonder?

Agree, nice to have you back Kent. We haven't always seen eye to eye but it would be boring if we all agreed eh.

 

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that in his election statement (which came out with the voting forms), he declred that he voted AGAINST the handgun ban.

 

I quote from here : http://basc.org.uk/basc-council-elections-candidates-2015/martyn-david-jones/

 

'As one of the handful of MPs who refused to vote for the firearms restrictions following both the Hungerford and Dunblane tragedies'

 

Do you have a copy of the voting details from Parliament re. the pistol ban, as if he has made a false election statement, I'm pretty sure he would be eligible to be disqualified from standing.

[Scully]

 

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that in his election statement (which came out with the voting forms), he declred that he voted AGAINST the handgun ban.

 

I quote from here : http://basc.org.uk/basc-council-elections-candidates-2015/martyn-david-jones/

 

'As one of the handful of MPs who refused to vote for the firearms restrictions following both the Hungerford and Dunblane tragedies'

 

Do you have a copy of the voting details from Parliament re. the pistol ban, as if he has made a false election statement, I'm pretty sure he would be eligible to be disqualified from standing.

Blinking 'eck! Better do some checking then! I recalled reading something about him voting FOR the ban but it was a long long time ago. Will do some checking and get back to you.

[Richie10]

Ex labour party should give you clue, get rid.

[Scully]

 

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that in his election statement (which came out with the voting forms), he declred that he voted AGAINST the handgun ban.

 

I quote from here : http://basc.org.uk/basc-council-elections-candidates-2015/martyn-david-jones/

 

'As one of the handful of MPs who refused to vote for the firearms restrictions following both the Hungerford and Dunblane tragedies'

 

Do you have a copy of the voting details from Parliament re. the pistol ban, as if he has made a false election statement, I'm pretty sure he would be eligible to be disqualified from standing.

My apologies. Just found thishttp://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=1997-11-03&number=78&mpn=Martyn_Jones&mpc=Clwyd_South&house=commons

Will delete initial post. My most sincere apologies everyone.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Scully

[robbiep]

Ex labour party should give you clue, get rid.

There were Labour MPs who spoke out against the proposed ban.

 

Your attitude seems to be one of tarring them all with the same brush. Not really fair, or reasonable.

 

Do you like it when people do the same to shooters/gamekeepers, and assume that as a few are involved in raptor persecution, then we are all guilty of wildlife crime ?

Edited March 3, 2015 by robbiep

[Richie10]

There were Labour MPs who spoke out against the proposed ban.

 

Your attitude seems to be one of tarring them all with the same brush. Not really fair, or reasonable.

 

Do you like it when people do the same to shooters/gamekeepers, and assume that as a few are involved in raptor persecution, then we are all guilty of wildlife crime ?

 

 

Do you see what they want to do if they get in again? You will see the demise of all country pursuits under labour. They will pass the law to ban hunting rats and rabbits with dogs as well. So whether you tar them them with the same brush or not this is their aim there is no getting round it.

 

As for reducing animal cruelty on game shoots, what does that involve? Could be shooting at pheasants in the first place?

[mossy835]

dont vote for him then.

[Glenshooter]

dont vote for him then.

Truth is most of us probably don't vote anyway but I probably now will after I read for myself all the stuff alluded to above. So by voting for someone else........

[Pothunter]

I voted for him. His bio says he's been shooting for 50 years and he plainly knows the ins and outs of the corridors of power.

 

It's not a popularity contest or some ceremonial honour. It's about who's most likely to be able to do a job for us. You don't have to like the guy. We're actually lucky he wants to get involved.

 

If you think we're under threat from a Labour government, surely that's exactly when you want an ex-Labour MP on the BASC Council?

[notsosureshot]

Surely the last thing the BASC would need would be a retired politician. Whether you agree with them or not, the increasing support for UKIP has demonstrated one thing. Significant numbers of people have been shown to be pretty tired of typical UK party politics and a lot of UKIP's support is from "salt of the earth" type voters, many of whom are open to common sense arguments, being tired of all the PC nonsense that floats around just to win votes.

 

BASC needs to remain politically impartial to address the needs of it's diverse membership. Surely, if arguments for the presence of hunting, shooting and country sports are, in the main, based on conservation, then the need exists to use reasoning which will cross the political divide and appeal to all. By the very nature of conservation, being a global issue, it should.

 

There are other ways to lobby parliament for change, it does not require sleeping with the enemy.

 

I firmly believe, the vast majority of the British population would be fully supportive of hunting and the shooting sports, if only they understood how things are done, why they are done and that it presents no more risk to them than a game of cricket at the local ground. I'd even include vegetarians and vegans (whom I respect) in this, since they consume cereal crop, which would be depleted if pest control was not undertaken. Yet, they often either refuse to acknowledge the need, or simply do not have access to the information and are ill informed. Why are they not informed and thus, against us? Nobody, no matter what their political views, can exist solely on manufactured foods.

 

Introduce any form of political influence and it becomes a race for votes in some form, not objective discussion.

 

Nobody, and I repeat nobody, employed in politics, who takes any kind of salary over and above the "living wage", can claim to have any interest in the general populous whatsoever. One only has to glance inside an active Students Union to see that. Passionate young people, paid little or nothing, to advocate for their fellow student. Sure, maybe some of them fancy a politicians salary, but many of them do it because they believe in a cause and not for financial reward.

 

The problem is, that politics has become a choice of career, and prospective candidates have had their expectations of earning potential raised accordingly. Impartiality is now impossible when speaking in terms of elected officials in the current system. It is a form of corruption in all but name. Many people scoff at Russia and the former countries of the USSR, but at least, in most cases, they acknowledge it. Anyone who has spent time there will know what I mean by this.

 

If it was up to me, members of parliament would receive a salary in the form of a benefit payment, never to exceed the national average wage. That would sort out the wheat from the chaff. There ARE people who would view it as a civic duty and also have the people skills to be effective, but they do not have the financial backing to ever be elected under the present system.

 

Will a fair parliament happen in our lifetime? Will it eckers like. Since MP's would effectively have to vote themsleves out of a high paying job. Would you do that?

 

In a nutshell, that is what I believe is wrong with our system of government and if BASC appoints an ex-MP to it's council, then it can kiss goodbye to ever having any meaningful relevance to its broad membership, ever again.

 

PS. Im generalising a bit in places, but fundamentally, I hope the point I'm trying to make, comes across.

Edited March 4, 2015 by notsosureshot

[kent]

I voted for him. His bio says he's been shooting for 50 years and he plainly knows the ins and outs of the corridors of power.

 

It's not a popularity contest or some ceremonial honour. It's about who's most likely to be able to do a job for us. You don't have to like the guy. We're actually lucky he wants to get involved.

 

If you think we're under threat from a Labour government, surely that's exactly when you want an ex-Labour MP on the BASC Council?

 

. His voting record is public fact and easy to obtain via google the fact is he voted strongly in favour of a ban on foxhunting, this impacted those who keep game, shot with fell packs and created the first ban on an excepted and widely practiced field sport in many generations. Even if you see foxhunting as not your cup of tea it was a buffer for us and a landmark victory to the anti.

Shoulder to shoulder we stand but divided we fall (I have never rode to hounds) but I have shot with fell packs. I don't really care what the legal field sport is I will defend it for this very reason . In fact I have done a fair bit of work for the grouse shooter of late but have never shot a driven grouse in my whole life.

 

Like I say politicians are good at telling you what you (the voter) want to hear but come on think about what isn't said load and proud and think about joining just to stand, BASC isn't short of suitable committed members.

[kent]

There were Labour MPs who spoke out against the proposed ban.

 

Your attitude seems to be one of tarring them all with the same brush. Not really fair, or reasonable.

 

Do you like it when people do the same to shooters/gamekeepers, and assume that as a few are involved in raptor persecution, then we are all guilty of wildlife crime ?

 

Yes,

there are also labour MPs who rough shoot, shoot driven, stalk or even become involved in the CA and do a good job. The fact we all know is how this particular one voted when he had the chance, please don't forget that.

 

This is not honestly a political issue, its a heads up on do we want him / can we trust him with this on his voting record?

[kent]

 

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that in his election statement (which came out with the voting forms), he declred that he voted AGAINST the handgun ban.

 

I quote from here : http://basc.org.uk/basc-council-elections-candidates-2015/martyn-david-jones/

 

'As one of the handful of MPs who refused to vote for the firearms restrictions following both the Hungerford and Dunblane tragedies'

 

Do you have a copy of the voting details from Parliament re. the pistol ban, as if he has made a false election statement, I'm pretty sure he would be eligible to be disqualified from standing.

 

Yes he is a target shooter of that we have no doubt, is he telling us about his vote in favour of a foxhunting ban though?

[Whitebridges]

Good you see you back Kent. Quality post and thanks for the heads up.

[Glenshooter]

It's actually an interesting one, IMHO.

 

An ex labour MP - from the party who hates shooting and field sports in general due to the spiteful class prejudice that poisons their minds. Is that background good or bad for this BASC position? - I can see two sides. Always good to have someone who understands the enemy. And there are (only) a few decent people in the labour party.

 

Anti fox hunting - I'm with Kent - "Shoulder to shoulder we stand but divided we fall (I have never rode to hounds) ........ I don't really care what the legal field sport is I will defend it for this very reason' - and despite the track record of some CA people accusing shooting of being cruel to further their own (horseback fox hunting) ends.

 

Will have to do my own research on this one. Can anyone suggest who WOULD be a good person to vote for? I've got several votes in my house. Thanks indeed for the heads-up on this one

[kent]

It's actually an interesting one, IMHO.

 

An ex labour MP - from the party who hates shooting and field sports in general due to the spiteful class prejudice that poisons their minds. Is that background good or bad for this BASC position? - I can see two sides. Always good to have someone who understands the enemy. And there are (only) a few decent people in the labour party.

 

Anti fox hunting - I'm with Kent - "Shoulder to shoulder we stand but divided we fall (I have never rode to hounds) ........ I don't really care what the legal field sport is I will defend it for this very reason' - and despite the track record of some CA people accusing shooting of being cruel to further their own (horseback fox hunting) ends.

 

Will have to do my own research on this one. Can anyone suggest who WOULD be a good person to vote for? I've got several votes in my house. Thanks indeed for the heads-up on this one <script pagespeed_no_defer="">//=d.offsetWidth&&0>=d.offsetHeight)a=!1;else{c=d.getBoundingClientRect();var f=document.body;a=c.top+("pageYOffset"in window?window.pageYOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollTop);c=c.left+("pageXOffset"in window?window.pageXOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollLeft);f=a.toString()+","+c;b.b.hasOwnProperty(f)?a=!1:(b.b[f]=!0,a=a<=b.e.height&&c<=b.e.width)}a&&(b.a.push(e),b.d[e]=!0)};p.prototype.checkImageForCriticality=function(b){b.getBoundingClientRect&&q(this,b)};h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkImageForCriticality",function(b){n.checkImageForCriticality(b)});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkCriticalImages",function(){r(n)});var r=function(b){b.b={};for(var d=["IMG","INPUT"],a=[],c=0;c=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e)}b.g&&(e="&rd="+encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify(s())),131072>=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e),d=!0);t=a;if(d){c=b.f;b=b.h;var f;if(window.XMLHttpRequest)f=new XMLHttpRequest;else if(window.ActiveXObject)try{f=new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP")}catch(k){try{f=new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP")}catch(u){}}f&&(f.open("POST",c+(-1==c.indexOf("?")?"?":"&")+"url="+encodeURIComponent(b)),f.setRequestHeader("Content-Type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"),f.send(a))}}},s=function(){var b={},d=document.getElementsByTagName("IMG");if(0==d.length)return{};var a=d[0];if(!("naturalWidth"in a&&"naturalHeight"in a))return{};for(var c=0;a=d[c];++c){var e=a.getAttribute("pagespeed_url_hash");e&&(!(e in b)&&0=b[e].k&&a.height>=b[e].j)&&(b[e]={rw:a.width,rh:a.height,ow:a.naturalWidth,oh:a.naturalHeight})}return b},t="";h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.getBeaconData",function(){return t});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run",function(b,d,a,c,e,f){var k=new p(b,d,a,e,f);n=k;c&&m(function(){window.setTimeout(function(){r(k)},0)})});})();pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run('/mod_pagespeed_beacon','http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?s=2729145ac800675d10ed0b2ed0220b34&app=forums&module=ajax§ion=topics&do=quote&t=306940&p=2771205&md5check=50e5dfbd6ee004ab08c4e840c548472c&isRte=1,l8PuqRhht8,true,false,dkvTxRawCtQ'); //]]></script>&&0

 

Thanks, it not for anyone else to tell a guy who to vote for. My opinion for what its worth is we shouldn't allow anyone to stand till they have done a certain length of time as a member and active participant in our actual sport. This way we protect ourselves from the hidden enemy within,

[Pothunter]

 

Thanks, it not for anyone else to tell a guy who to vote for.

 

Surely the whole point of the thread is that you are "warning" us who not to vote for? If not, what is the point of the thread?

 

And there's nothing wrong with that. Perfectly legitimate and reasonable thing to do when there's election on, to say "don't vote for this guy because of his record". I just don't agree in this case.

 

I've cast my votes now, but it would actually also have been nice to hear some positive personal recommendations from people who might know some of the people, rather than just going on their bios.

 

I understand why people on here may not trust Martyn Jones, but my point still remains: is it not worth one of our five lay representatives on the BASC council being somebody with long and intimate experience of the corridors of power, who knows how to get things done and might be able to help shape things our way?

 

No, he might not have stood up against the foxhunting ban, when there was a lot of Labour and constituency pressure on him. (Whether we like it or not, hunting is not popular with the general public - that's why they banned it, to win votes). But now he doesn't have that, he would be free and licensed to operate in our interests.

 

And the idea that "we can't trust him" doesn't really add up. Trust him to do what? Does anybody seriously think he's some kind of spy or fifth columnist? Why on earth would he be standing for the BASC council, aged 67, after a lifetime as a shooter, unless he wanted to help the shooting cause? With whom and how do people think he's going to betray us? Like I said before, it's not a ceremonial honour, we're not awarding him a special thing to say that he's a great guy - it's a job that needs doing, for which it would be handy if one of our five reps had deep knowledge and understanding of politics and government from the inside.

 

PS I also voted for one of the young women, because we need more young people and we need more women.