SGC and kids on sky news

[roadkill]

Why this makes the news i will never know

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1439557/shotgun-certificates-issued-to-hundreds-of-kids

makes my blood boil

 

Christine Hall from Gun Control Network said: "The danger is it poses in the mind-set of the child that it's fun to kill things.

 

"It seems strange that a child can't go into a pub and have a pint but they can have access to a shotgun."

[Scully]

This 'revelation' does the rounds on a regular basis. For a very small organisation the GCN does a very good job of getting itself and its agenda some high profile exposure.

[Sha Bu Le]

Must have been a quiet day on Sky News, on a more serious note its another example of the anti gun lobby using any sensationalist drivel to undermine the legitimate possession of guns............including airguns, airsoft etc.

 

I wonder if she has any data re how many 8 year olds who are properly trained, licensed and supervised have committed any gun crimes at all. None come to my mind.

 

Could this be a jump on the bandwagon thing following the news report that 9 year olds were being used by gangs to transport drugs and guns, none of which are legal..

 

Edit = typo

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sha Bu Le

[Penelope]

I read in the Metro (London free paper) this morning of a 10 year old lad from Frome in Somerset who took an orange plastic toy gun to school for a 'bring a toy day'. He has been threatened with expulsion, three teachers have said that they felt threatened and police have visited his house to warn him of the dangers of guns.

 

This is the mind set that we are up against.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Penelope

[keg]

I read in the Metro (London free paper) this morning of a 10 year old lad from Frome in Somerset who took an orange plastic toy gun to school for a 'bring a toy day'. He has been threatened with expulsion, three teachers have said that they felt threatened and police have visited his house to warn him of the dangers of guns.

 

This is the mind set that we are up against.

You beat me to it Penelope, what happened to the days when boys ( and sometimes girls!) played cowboys and indians, most houses has loads of toy guns.

[Mentalmac]

I read in the Metro (London free paper) this morning of a 10 year old lad from Frome in Somerset who took an orange plastic toy gun to school for a 'bring a toy day'. He has been threatened with expulsion, three teachers have said that they felt threatened and police have visited his house to warn him of the dangers of guns.

 

This is the mind set that we are up against.

Lucky it wasn't America - they likely would have shot him first then realised it was a toy... haha

[kingo15]

Why oh why do they have to always have to show one aspect of it. Yes young boys or girls of farmers or land workers will possibly want to follow in the footsteps of their parents and shoot stuff.

 

But what about all the other children that do it for competition shooting they never show that side of it.

Where would we be if the likes of amber hill and no doubt countless others youngsters weren't allowed access to shotguns etc....

 

As with probably the major majority on these forums we were brought up around guns rifles etc and all seem to be safe and well.

 

Total joke.

 

Definitely a slow news day on sky

[Gordon R]

Perhaps they should concentrate their efforts in ridding the streets of Nottingham, London, Birmingham, Manchester etc. - of kids with illegal firearms. Then again, that might prove harder than a cheap article.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Gordon R

[Penelope]

What, and upset all those cultural sensitivities.

 

Perhaps they should concentrate their efforts in ridding the streets of Nottingham, London, Birmingham, Manchester etc. - of kids with illegal firearms. Then again, that might prove harder than a cheap article.

[thepasty]

and they dont think the incredibly violent killing computer games are a bigger issue

[rjimmer]

This 'revelation' does the rounds on a regular basis. For a very small organisation the GCN does a very good job of getting itself and its agenda some high profile exposure.

That's a new name. i thought GCN just consisted of Anne Pearston and Gill Marshal-Andrews.

[aris]

"It seems strange that a child can't go into a pub and have a pint but they can have access to a shotgun."

 

Kids who don't have access to a pint in pubs are in the military, drive cars, and can fly aircraft too.

[evo]

I personally thought the guy from basc gave a good account of himself and also shooters,

 

should an eight year old have a licence for a shotgun

 

imo it is a bit young as I still struggle to hold my gun when it goes off and I,m 50,,,,,,, :lol:

 

I personally don't think a licence at eight years old is needed because at that age he will always be with a responsible adult so really there is no need for him/her to have a licience at that age,,is it wrong to have a licence at that age no its not,,

 

I first started using shotguns at the age of 10 with my father because shooting and fishing was all he did , well when he wasn,t working anyway,

 

its just another attempt to put the public off genuine law abiding people who own guns,

 

cant even see what the hell they are moaning at even if it is a bit young

[Reece]

I could be wrong, but don't the police release this data anyway? The article says there was a freedom of information request, which I would have thought would be pointless (except for it creating more of a "story").

[J_Edwards]

It's sad but true, but when I was at school 5 years ago, shooting as a hobby and pastime wasn't held in high regard, and I would imagine that it is even worse now. Me living in the countryside meant I was brought up with guns, but there was a general attitude with "city kids" and teachers that gun owners were "psychos", reinforced by incidents such as the shootings in America, and the Derrick Bird incident at the time. As a legal gun-owner, you always seem to feel on the losing side.

 

It was a time when you were considered "weird" if you shot as a hobby, but "normal" if you messed about at school, womanised, and at the weekend you got hammered on the school fields from a bottle of super-strength cider, and smoked something you shouldn't have smoked. Very strange society.

 

Personally, I think that the only way that you can change public opinion is by making licencing much more thorough. I'm an advocate of the German licencing system, which requires a spotless criminal record, written exam, verbal exam, shooting exam, and quarry identification exam. Because the German public know that only the cream of the crop can get a licence, they actually trust their system, and trust that licence holders know what they're doing. Public attitude is trusting, rather than fearful towards licence holders.

[CharlieT]

 

 

Personally, I think that the only way that you can change public opinion is by making licencing much more thorough. I'm an advocate of the German licencing system, which requires a spotless criminal record, written exam, verbal exam, shooting exam, and quarry identification exam. Because the German public know that only the cream of the crop can get a licence, they actually trust their system, and trust that licence holders know what they're doing. Public attitude is trusting, rather than fearful towards licence holders.

 

And there's me thinking that the UK had one of the most stringent licensing systems in the world, but hey ho, why not make it harder and put off even more youngsters from taking up a wonderful sport just because a very, very, very small minority don't like guns.

 

Pray tell me J Edwards, where in the UK are all these SGC holders running riot and giving the public this dreadful perseption.

Oh, and as for quarry identification, even a moron can identify a clay pigeon.

[Markr]

well mr Edwards, im sure all the criminals holding illegal guns will sleep safer in their beds if they know legal owners are being clamped down on all the more.

 

some sections of society wont be happy until we live in a totally steralized world, or maybe theres a plan to rid the masses of guns for an a different reason altogether?.

[evo]

mr Edwards, I,m sorry but I totally disagree with your comments sir,,why cant a person who has a criminal record hold a licence my father had a criminal conviction,,yes one, because my mother bought two tyres of a guy for his car so he could earn cash to keep a roof over his families head and keep his job,,are you saying he should not of been allowed a shotgun , rimfire, or hmr, even a pistol because he made a mistake of judgement,,,,he never ever was a liar or thief or for that matter a criminal,,even though convicted,, he took the rap for my mother so they Both didn,t get charged which was the police advice

 

sorry mate but you are obviously a model citizen whom has obviously had everything done for him,,,your response is beyond reason sir

Edited March 6, 2015 by evo

[belly47]

You beat me to it Penelope, what happened to the days when boys ( and sometimes girls!) played cowboys and indians, most houses has loads of toy guns.

 

totally agree , my 5 yr old boy has toy guns, plenty of them too, we are often running round the house hiding and shooting each other, it`s what boys do!

[J_Edwards]

Mr CharlieT, as a member myself of many Facebook groups, as previously discussed on another thread, some users on there upload photos, videos and comments which are truly unbelievable. People who are clearly unfit to possess an airgun, nevermind a firearm, and I personally know people like this. Luckily most of these pages are moderated, and only a few dreadful posts make it out onto the public feed.

 

I also have had experiences with poachers. As a landowner myself, I have seen poachers in my area, using firearms with no knowledge of the land and it's lie, taking shots with no significant backstops and therefore dangerous to the public and livestock. I have also came across poachers whilst out shooting myself, which is just plain dangerous. Yes, they are hard to stop, but I believe that a system like the German system would weed out the undesirables, and ensure that everyone is properly trained to be safe in the handling of firearms.

 

As for quarry identification, the German system leans more towards live quarry, notably deer. But what harm would it do to educate people on quarry identification?

 

I believe a better public opinion is vital to making the sport grow. Let's say a young person from a non-shooting background wants to take up airgun shooting or clay pigeon shooting. Their parents are fixed in the mindset of the anti-gun media, so they do not allow their child to take up the hobby. If shooting had a better public opinion, it would be regarded as a sport parallel with football, cricket, and boxing. etc, and more and more people would take it up. The media is anti-gun as it is, so it would be nice to give society a confidence of gun-owners, that they are correctly trained and have enough knowledge to safely use firearms.

 

I believe in the German system as a guideline, but I do not believe in it entirely. Yes, Mr Evo, it would be completely wrong to deny your father a licence. I agree that people deserve a second chance, and that people do make errors of judgement. My point was that public opinion in Germany is positive of shooting, as opposed to negative in the UK, due to the thorough licensing system.

[Gordon R]

J Edwards - some rather sweeping statements in your posts - not letting any facts cloud the issue. The German system works for them, but I can't see one valid point for introducing it here. What has quarry recognition got to do with clay shooting?

 

What happens to would be shooters who aren't very good at exams, but great shots and thoroughly decent, law abiding people? Forget them - we only want crème de la crème.

 

It's a bit sad when shooters are as blinkered as the antis.

[grrclark]

J Edwards, at the risk of sounding a bit patronising I think that your approach is a wee bit naive. I can understand where you are coming from in that having a qualified and heavily vetted shooting community that the people opposed to shooting could change their mind because controls are very strict, but sadly it just isn't true.

 

The people that are opposed to shooting are largely unreasonable in their belief system towards guns, so a reasoned argument of having a much stricter qualification process for firearm ownership doesn't matter, because the anti's are unreasonable. It doesn't matter what you might do, unless it is what they want then it is no good.

 

If you look at where we are now, with a tiny percentage of legally held firearms being used outside of the law then that in itself is a reasonable argument, but that is ignored.

 

The fact that the sport has a track record of great safety is a reasonable argument, but that is ignored.

 

I think that in broad terms the majority of the British public don't actually bother too much one way or the other about sporting gun ownership. Only when there is a negative media story do you actually get a reaction.

 

If you look at things like game fairs where a huge amount of those that visit those events are not firearms holders, they have little interest in shooting or hunting, they just go along to the event for a day out. They don't care one way or the other, they simply appreciate that some folk have guns and don't think much beyond that.

 

The anti's will always be opposed, we will never change their minds. The best thing that we can do is promote the sport in the best possible way as often as possible, that way the apathetic vast majority hear and see positive stories and not just media peddled sensational nonsense because it makes a dramatic headline.

[Scully]

 

 

Personally, I think that the only way that you can change public opinion is by making licencing much more thorough. I'm an advocate of the German licencing system, which requires a spotless criminal record, written exam, verbal exam, shooting exam, and quarry identification exam. Because the German public know that only the cream of the crop can get a licence, they actually trust their system, and trust that licence holders know what they're doing. Public attitude is trusting, rather than fearful towards licence holders.

 

Uk public opinion will not change regarding UK firearms owners even if we implemented the German system over here because in the UK we have no tradition of hunting, whereas as in many mainland european countries, they have. Hunting and shooting for centuries in the UK has been the preserve of the so called upper class landowning gentry. in the main your average working classes have had no land on which to hunt, and if you didn't own the land you were shooting on you were poaching.

On mainland europe they have had a tradition of hunting for centuries, where the man of the house literally brought home the bacon quite legally and guns and hunting were a way of life. Not so over here. If the man of the house brought home the bacon over here it was quickly hidden or eaten to get rid of the evidence.

If you want public opinion about firearms and the people who use and own them and for shooting in general to become acceptable, the only way you are going to get this is to introduce shooting in state schools as part of the national curriculum.

The only place this happens is, yes, you've guessed it, in the privileged private or public schools.

Mainland UK already has some of the most restrictive firearms legislation in the world, much more so then Germany.

There is nothing in German firearms legislation to stop anyone going apepoo with a legally held firearm, as has been proved in the past. They may have a more positive outlook towards shooting and shooters, but it has nothing to do with the licensing system.

[wymberley]

I thought J Edwards came on a bit strong at Post #15. Now that he's revised it as at the first sentence of the final paragraph at Post #20, he gets my vote regarding the perception we get from much of the public.I understand what he was talking about and that is live quarry shooting. You cannot get a firearm certificate in Germany (there is only one which covers all types of gun) - waffenbesitzkarte - for live quarry shooting until you obtain a hunting licence - jagdschein - which is where all the training and exams come into play. Clay pigeons were mentioned and for this activity plus any other type of range discipline, there is obviously no need for the hunting licence, just the firearm certificate.

[grrclark]

Good post Scully.