loriusgarrulus Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-army-soldiers-must-pay-5288205 They shouldn't have to pay it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnythefox70 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Why shouldnt they? They have had payments they were not entitled to regardless of who's fault it was. Same as anyone who works or anyone who claims benefits and gets overpaid they will have to pay it back. What difference does it make if its the mod and are soldiers etc? it's irrelevant, and they should without shadow of doubt repay every penny they were not entitled to end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I agree , no different to any other walk in life , I was over paid by almost £2000 over the course of about 18 months , I had no idea as had changed job roles at work a couple of times . Once it was noticed they wanted it back and gave me the option of paying in a lump or over 6-12 months We would all be screaming if someone was over paid benefits and it would not be because we wanted them to keep it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Just like in any other occasion you would have to pay it back, why should the army be any different. Normally in such circumstances arrangements are made with the agreement of both parties for the money to be payed back in instalments. Edited March 8, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy bingo Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Why shouldnt they? They have had payments they were not entitled to regardless of who's fault it was. Same as anyone who works or anyone who claims benefits and gets overpaid they will have to pay it back. What difference does it make if its the mod and are soldiers etc? it's irrelevant, and they should without shadow of doubt repay every penny they were not entitled to end of. ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 +1 to the above. My payslip clearly shows any additional allowances which if these guys were receiving for additional training functions then surely would have noticed? Certainly if your paty increases un expectedly would you not be inquisitive as to why....l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 At the end of the day it's public money, As someone says above, if it was overpaid benefits people would up in arms if they just wrote off the debts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 If benefits are paid by mistake, they cannot be claimed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 If benefits are paid by mistake, they cannot be claimed back. The people that overpaid the benefits should be held to account. Typical hard working people have to pay back, others claiming benefits don't. But it also means that taxpayers will pick up the bill for the incompetence of the bureaucrats at the Department of Work and Pensions. And it’s likely to be a hefty bill at that - auditors claim £900 million was overpaid last year alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wascal Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 The root cause of this mess is that to save money most admin / pay clerks have been sacked ,servicemen are now expected to know everything about a complex allowance system . The MOD don't tell you where the rule book is, change the goalposts regularly , and come down hard if you make a mistake. But they can only take back 4 days gross pay per month so a bank loan should not be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 The people that overpaid the benefits should be held to account. Typical hard working people have to pay back, others claiming benefits don't. The people that are overpaid by mistake, are NOT claiming the amounts that are overpaid, it would be fraud if they were, and they WOULD have to pay them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) The people that are overpaid by mistake, are NOT claiming the amounts that are overpaid, it would be fraud if they were, and they WOULD have to pay them back. The people that are overpaid by mistake, are NOT claiming the amounts that are overpaid, You have lost me a bit with that reply. I don't think anyone said any differently to what you said above. Who said they not overpaid by mistake. ? Edited March 8, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 from what I can garner, the soldiers in question were told they could get the extra pay if they took the courses on offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 It should be taken out of their wages after leaving the forces at a rate that is nominal and without interest. Over twenty years it would be buttons per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 It should be taken out of their wages after leaving the forces at a rate that is nominal and without interest. Over twenty years it would be buttons per week. much like a student loan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 much like a student loan Yeah. Theres pilchards that did pointless degrees that will never yield the earnings to repay the loans. many will never get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Theres pilchards that did pointless degrees that will never yield the earnings to repay the loans. Oh I don't know, I use my Klingon degree quite a lot. Once a year at the Con at the every least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) After reading the replies I feel sick. Our soliders are vastly underpaid as it is. Considering what they do on a daily basis, I would imagine the last thing on their minds is a cosy night by the computer with Quicken trying to work out their savings plan. I doubt many operational troops look at their bank account from one month to the next. Put it into context. Our army is small, many individuals have rendered front line service recently, they are away from their children, families. Are they really to be expected to return to a forward operating base following a dangerous patrol mission and fiddle about with their finances to check what was received from where? Moreover, who the hell do they ask if they are deployed or on a base somewhere, since their CO seems to know nothing about it. They might be in the middle of a desert for a year. Not to mention they cannot just simply go see the CO or even admin staff when they feel like it. They must follow protocol to the letter. The amount of young people in the armed forces having suffered serious trauma is grossly underestimated and many are incapable of looking after themselves physically, let alone financially. It's so easy to sit at our computers and give opinions about whether or not they should give "overpaid" monies back. Do those of you who think so not realise, that many combat troops suffer from PTSD to such an extent that they cannot even function well in normal society, nevermind their finances. Just because such people don't always make it into the statistics, doesn't mean they don't exist. It is a real and current problem. Yes, the MOD provides help, but it can take many years for it to have any effect, that is if the person chooses to take the help offered, they dont have to and for most, it is a very difficult choice. Therapy, almost emasculating them in the view of some. I know 5 men who have served on the front line proper, at extreme risk to life and limb. All have been present for specific, known battles. Not a single one of them has a happy life at the moment, as they have confided amongst our friend group. All of them ended their tour(s) with operation Herrick 9 in April 2009. Two of them have since been divorced, one isn't comfortable spending time with his own children and feels like life is pointless and the other two have taken to placing themselves in what normal people would consider extremely dangerous situations, on a regular basis. The list of reasons goes on. The point is, unless you know how it feels to be in such a situation, or at the very least, have a close friend with direct experience of being shot at or seeing your friends being blown to pieces, then suggesting our members of our forces should know of their finances as well as we do, is abhorrent. They have their own humanity to preserve, money is meaningless when you're watching severed legs flying through the air and simultaneously being shot at from various angles. Even after a battle, there are numerous horrific images which haunt you. I have seen the pictures and wish I had not. What part of that do you not get when you're proposing they pay back trivial amounts of money? This isn't the A-Team where you just go home and carry on, they have to live with their experiences until they die. It doesn't matter how much you hate the enemy, indeed many of the soldiers I know dont hate anyone, but seeing a dead young person in a grotesque posture, is highly traumatic, and something you will never get out of your mind. Considering all the money we pay to benefit claimants, some of whom are simply spongers who have no desire to do anything except be professional scoungers, can we not allow these young men and woman, who elected to serve in defence of the tax payers of this country, to keep these piffling amounts. It is a tiny amount in the great scheme of things. Amounting for example, to just 10% of what we provide to India in aid each year. India have a space exploration programme for goodness sake and can't feed their own people. Don't dare to lump serving members of our forces into the same sentence as civilian benefit claimants under any circumstances. Our army, navy and airforce personnel often risk all, for our collective benefit and receive very little in return. They will NEVER be rich yet they may very well, die trying. Benefit claimants are asking for a hand out and in many cases it is justified, but they are certainly not risking life and limb on a sometimes daily basis, as many of our armed forces personnel have been ordered to do, and probably have ample time to sit and go through their personal finances. Yes, these men and women elect to join the services, but without them we would be defenseless. If you think differently, go yourself, do a tour on the front line and then spout off about how easy it was to manage your finances at the same time, assuming you don't get shot or blown up. Edited March 9, 2015 by notsosureshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Don't disagree with what you say in most of your post. Fact is they were overpaid ( not their fault) and it needs claiming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Don't disagree with what you say in most of your post. Fact is they were overpaid ( not their fault) and it needs claiming back. What if they already sent it home to their families without realising? What are they supposed to do if it was spent paying the bills? Checking finances is the last thing on your mind if you're deployed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I agree , no different to any other walk in life , I was over paid by almost £2000 over the course of about 18 months , I had no idea as had changed job roles at work a couple of times . Once it was noticed they wanted it back and gave me the option of paying in a lump or over 6-12 months We would all be screaming if someone was over paid benefits and it would not be because we wanted them to keep it ! Are you actually serious in your post fenboy? No different to any other walk of life? No different to overpaying benefits to civilians? Do you know any people who have served in the forces at all, let alone in actual combat where their life is on the line? For combat troops, there is an enormous glaring difference sir. Their priority is living to see another day, not whether or not they checked their payslip. This is a very sad post in my eyes as you clearly have little to no understanding on what on earth these people go through in serving our country, a country which includes both you and I. I would urge you to reconsider. I just cannot believe someone could honestly believe there is no difference. :( What the hell has happened to our country? I am really at a loss to understand some of the comments here. Edited March 9, 2015 by notsosureshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Are you actually serious in your post fenboy? No different to any other walk of life? No different to overpaying benefits to civilians? Do you know any people who have served in the forces at all, let alone in actual combat where their life is on the line? For combat troops, there is an enormous glaring difference sir. Their priority is living to see another day, not whether or not they checked their payslip. This is a very sad post in my eyes as you clearly have little to no understanding on what on earth these people go through in serving our country, a country which includes both you and I. I would urge you to reconsider. I just cannot believe someone could honestly believe there is no difference. :( What the hell has happened to our country? I am really at a loss to understand some of the comments here. Go meet some people who work in the forces, most are disappointingly normal human beings. If you asked them how they made there money, they'd say by doing a job. If you asked them if they deserved to be treated different, they'd say no. Edited March 9, 2015 by Bleeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsosureshot Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Go meet some people who work in the forces, most are disapointedly normal human beings. If you asked them how they made there money, they'd say by doing a job. If you asked them if they desereved to be treated different, they'd say no. Bleeh, if you'd read my previous post you'd know I have several friends whom I am concerned about. I know many members of the forces, outside the few I mentioned and mostly they ARE like you say, which is why I am so upset at the general attitude displayed here. Service men and women are most often selfless people and would never ask for anything to be done to benefit specifically them whatsoever. They have no pansy *** "workers union", they can't really go on strike, they have no say in anything really. This is not the NHS where they can simply strike because they wanted a 1% pay increase. That is a right that our armed forces do NOT have! This is all the more reason why they need recognition, support and understanding of what they go through, by the public at large. Most people don't have a clue what can happen to these young people when they serve. Sure, it's fair to say that not all of them have horrific experiences, but many do and the last thing they need is external civilian pressure to repay money they may not have when they have done their duty. The money is utterly irrelevent in this scenario. Why on earth would we place additional stress on people who, through serving their country, are already under untold stress which most people cannot begin to imagine. If you really want to cover all bases, give them the option. Don't enforce it legally, that would just be utterly shameful to put these guys under such pressure. If anyone challenges what I am saying in this post. How many of you would donate to Help for Heroes? That charity would not need to exist if the government provided sufficient funding for our serving and ex servicemen/women to resettle properly. It is a national shame that the charity is forced to exist at all! If the inept government takes this money back and forces people into debt to do so, then the burden will fall to charities. Many service men and women really have no option. They get paid absolutely nothing in relative terms, for what they do. Many cannot make ends meet. This isn't a question of pride Bleeh, it's a question of necessity for many young men and women. You can be the most humble soldier in the world, but if you come home to nothing, or circumstances force you to have nothing, you need help. The government putting them into a potential debt scenario is stupid beyong imagining. We have not even touched on the fact that there is already a significant problem with homelessness amongst ex-servicemen/women and you guys want to recalculate their pay which they already spent, probably on their families (nothing else to spend it on really) ? Really..... No, they wont ask for a leg up. But for the sake of all thats holy, does that mean we should ignore them? Edited March 9, 2015 by notsosureshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 After reading the replies I feel sick. Our soliders are vastly underpaid as it is. Considering what they do on a daily basis, I would imagine the last thing on their minds is a cosy night by the computer with Quicken trying to work out their savings plan. I doubt many operational troops look at their bank account from one month to the next. Put it into context. Our army is small, many individuals have rendered front line service recently, they are away from their children, families. Are they really to be expected to return to a forward operating base following a dangerous patrol mission and fiddle about with their finances to check what was received from where? Moreover, who the hell do they ask if they are deployed or on a base somewhere, since their CO seems to know nothing about it. They might be in the middle of a desert for a year. Not to mention they cannot just simply go see the CO or even admin staff when they feel like it. They must follow protocol to the letter. The amount of young people in the armed forces having suffered serious trauma is grossly underestimated and many are incapable of looking after themselves physically, let alone financially. It's so easy to sit at our computers and give opinions about whether or not they should give "overpaid" monies back. Do those of you who think so not realise, that many combat troops suffer from PTSD to such an extent that they cannot even function well in normal society, nevermind their finances. Just because such people don't always make it into the statistics, doesn't mean they don't exist. It is a real and current problem. Yes, the MOD provides help, but it can take many years for it to have any effect, that is if the person chooses to take the help offered, they dont have to and for most, it is a very difficult choice. Therapy, almost emasculating them in the view of some. I know 5 men who have served on the front line proper, at extreme risk to life and limb. All have been present for specific, known battles. Not a single one of them has a happy life at the moment, as they have confided amongst our friend group. All of them ended their tour(s) with operation Herrick 9 in April 2009. Two of them have since been divorced, one isn't comfortable spending time with his own children and feels like life is pointless and the other two have taken to placing themselves in what normal people would consider extremely dangerous situations, on a regular basis. The list of reasons goes on. The point is, unless you know how it feels to be in such a situation, or at the very least, have a close friend with direct experience of being shot at or seeing your friends being blown to pieces, then suggesting our members of our forces should know of their finances as well as we do, is abhorrent. They have their own humanity to preserve, money is meaningless when you're watching severed legs flying through the air and simultaneously being shot at from various angles. Even after a battle, there are numerous horrific images which haunt you. I have seen the pictures and wish I had not. What part of that do you not get when you're proposing they pay back trivial amounts of money? This isn't the A-Team where you just go home and carry on, they have to live with their experiences until they die. It doesn't matter how much you hate the enemy, indeed many of the soldiers I know dont hate anyone, but seeing a dead young person in a grotesque posture, is highly traumatic, and something you will never get out of your mind. Considering all the money we pay to benefit claimants, some of whom are simply spongers who have no desire to do anything except be professional scoungers, can we not allow these young men and woman, who elected to serve in defence of the tax payers of this country, to keep these piffling amounts. It is a tiny amount in the great scheme of things. Amounting for example, to just 10% of what we provide to India in aid each year. India have a space exploration programme for goodness sake and can't feed their own people. Don't dare to lump serving members of our forces into the same sentence as civilian benefit claimants under any circumstances. Our army, navy and airforce personnel often risk all, for our collective benefit and receive very little in return. They will NEVER be rich yet they may very well, die trying. Benefit claimants are asking for a hand out and in many cases it is justified, but they are certainly not risking life and limb on a sometimes daily basis, as many of our armed forces personnel have been ordered to do, and probably have ample time to sit and go through their personal finances. Yes, these men and women elect to join the services, but without them we would be defenseless. If you think differently, go yourself, do a tour on the front line and then spout off about how easy it was to manage your finances at the same time, assuming you don't get shot or blown up. +1 to this Don't disagree with what you say in most of your post. Fact is they were overpaid ( not their fault) and it needs claiming back. Sorry, -1 for this I am afraid I am also disappointed with some of the things said on this thread. Our boys need all the help and support from us - these serving personnel took up an offer to better themselves both educationally and financially in good faith. The MOD should wipe the slate to maintain some faith and face.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) -x- (edited out, I can't be bothered) Edited March 9, 2015 by Bleeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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