Fox with .22LR

[RossEM]

Having a debate with a bloke on FB shooting group as to whether .22LR is a suitable calibre for fox. He's telling me that his FEO "makes the rules" and he also thinks .22LR isn't powerful enough. I'm saying it's irrelevant if your ticket allows it - it's down to the judgement of the shooter and the particular circumstances of the shot.

 

I'm not an FAC holder but a have witnessed one cleanly killed with a .22LR by a farming mate, he was carring .243 as well, but the fox popped up at 30 yards and he quickly shot it rather than swapping rifles and letting the fox run. He has an open ticket with AOLQ on the .22LR.

 

I'd like to get a consensus on this from experienced FAC holders.

 

Cheers, Ross

[Vince Green]

When I was a kid .22 was the only rifle used for fox. The idea that somebody would go out and spend a grand or more on a centrefire rifle specifically to kill foxes would make them a prime candidate for the job of village idiot.

 

But it requires fieldcraft, careful shot placement and an understanding of your quarry.

[welsh1]

It has it's place for fox,a centre fire is hardly suitable for fox in urban gardens.It can be used for fox ,but at limited range and the shooter should know his ability and the ability of his rifle,shot placement is key.

[fortune]

Years ago no one had center fire rifles. a 22rf was considered a potent rifle quite capable to take fox with. I've take more with my 22rf than I have with my 222 or 223. OK you cant and shouldn't attempt to take them at range but as stated it all depends on how good a shot you are and the circumstances ofthe shot.

[RossEM]

I thought so, thanks for the replies so far. Thames Valley Police I've heard are discouraging .22LR grants because of ricochet potential - they prefer.17HMR, is this calibre suitable for fox? What I've seen it do to rabbits suggests it is!

[robbiep]

The Home Office guidance clearly states that it is suitable - in experienced hands and at close ranges.

 

I've got 22LR and 223. Both have their place in foxing, depending on the land, how far away you will be from the fox, whether calling it in or not, and lots of other circumstances.

[drut]

When I was a kid .22 was the only rifle used for fox. The idea that somebody would go out and spend a grand or more on a centrefire rifle specifically to kill foxes would make them a prime candidate for the job of village idiot.

 

But it requires fieldcraft, careful shot placement and an understanding of your quarry.

This was my "understanding" also,22lr is more than capable in the right hands/circumstances.Personally,I use a .222 as a "weapon of choice" for fox control but kill more foxes (humanely) with a .22lr as they happen as "targets of opportunity" whilst I am engaged in rabbit control.As an aside although I do enjoy shooting(and see the reason to)shoot rabbits,I ony shoot foxes where and when a land owner requests me to.

[robbiep]

I thought so, thanks for the replies so far. Thames Valley Police I've heard are discouraging .22LR grants because of ricochet potential - they prefer.17HMR, is this calibre suitable for fox? What I've seen it do to rabbits suggests it is!

A slight point - They may well not want to GRANT 22LR for fox, as the guidance views it as needing an experienced operator.

[RossEM]

Quite right, but does the guidance require experienced operators for .17HMR, say if this was an initial grant?

[scotslad]

Like others have said in the old days u really only had 22's or a 243, an awful lot of foxes would be shot with 22's.

When i first started keepering the boss had 2 x 22's 1 with a mod and subs for lamping and 1 with HV rounds for daytime work/checking snares etc. These were the days before mod's were allowed on CF rifles. My mate was using a 22lr with hv until quite recently as his only foxing rifle and shot a fair few foxes with it, but he is as wily and cunning as an old fox hinself

 

I think 17hmr's are vastly over rated and would far rather shoot a fox with my 22 than a 17. Yes the bullet is travelling fast but generally only 17 grains compared to 42 grains for a 22lr, and if ur using HV rounds there will not be a massive difference in speeds and firing 2x as heavy a bullet.

17hmr's can be badly efffected by wind too. Still got my 17 but never really got into it.

[moose man]

The 22lr is just another tool in the armoury , used in the right circumstances it's a great tool ..All these shot at no more than 30 m over a few evenings in the garden ..

 

[Vince Green]

The trouble with the "hummer" is that the bullet goes to pieces if it hits a biggish bone. The .22 has much the same trouble but less extreme, Foxes have some chunky bones around the front legs and shoulder area which do a good job of shielding the heart from a side shot.

 

Shot placement but also the angle from which you shoot is important.

[Bewsher500]

done to death

its legal

vermin is not classified

unlawful for an FEO to restrict quarry by virtue of FAC conditions and outside of the HO Guidance

[RossEM]

The fella that I've been...trying...to have a debate with about this has succeeded in getting the post removed from FB, ending in a direct quotation from HO Guidelines (which exactly stated my point that .22LR is recognised as entirely suitable for foxes in certain circumstances) and a trail of abuse.

 

His name is Lee Morris from Castle Douglas - I hope I never have the mispleasure of meeting him, he comes across as a know-it-all, force-it-down-your-throat, my-way-or-the-highway type. Even though he's obviously wrong. He says at one point AOLQ doesn't include fox???

 

His FB profile lists his occupation as 'US Marine Corps' - perhaps it's the Keyboard Warrior Division?

 

Thanks for all the sensible replies from experienced rifle shooters who know what they're talking about!

[welsh1]

The fella that I've been...trying...to have a debate with about this has succeeded in getting the post removed from FB, ending in a direct quotation from HO Guidelines (which exactly stated my point that .22LR is recognised as entirely suitable for foxes in certain circumstances) and a trail of abuse.

 

His name is Lee Morris from Castle Douglas - I hope I never have the mispleasure of meeting him, he comes across as a know-it-all, force-it-down-your-throat, my-way-or-the-highway type. Even though he's obviously wrong. He says at one point AOLQ doesn't include fox???

 

His FB profile lists his occupation as 'US Marine Corps' - perhaps it's the Keyboard Warrior Division?

 

Thanks for all the sensible replies from experienced rifle shooters who know what they're talking about!

Funny his wife lives in bridge of dee,dumfries and galloway,and he was knocking in posts with her on 29 april.

[RossEM]

She might have missed and hit him on the head? That is one angry, opinionated troll.

[Ira]

you could report him to the Walter Mitty Hunters Club, they love em like that..... so Im told

[drut]

"The fella that I've been...trying...to have a debate with about this has succeeded in getting the post removed from FB, ending in a direct quotation from HO Guidelines (which exactly stated my point that .22LR is recognised as entirely suitable for foxes in certain circumstances) and a trail of abuse."

 

Unfortunately you can only get reasonable debate/response from reasonable people.Nil Carborundum Bastardi seems appropriate..

[FOXHUNTER1]

The 22lr is just another tool in the armoury , used in the right circumstances it's a great tool ..All these shot at no more than 30 m over a few evenings in the garden ..

 

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Wish I had a garden like that ...

[RossEM]

As a measure of what sort of shooter this guy is, he's just posted that he shot 15 rooks out of a rookery with his .22LR this morning. Safe backstop, anyone?

[Guest stevo]

As a measure of what sort of shooter this guy is, he's just posted that he shot 15 rooks out of a rookery with his .22LR this morning. Safe backstop, anyone?

I do the same .......... however I use CB 's there only 30flbs , plus I only do it on one rookery as I know there's NOTHING in any direction for miles , I also shoot a vertical as possible to reduce bullet travel as much as possible .

[Scully]

As a measure of what sort of shooter this guy is, he's just posted that he shot 15 rooks out of a rookery with his .22LR this morning. Safe backstop, anyone?

We do this on a regular basis this time of year to thin out numbers via shooting 'branchers', and have done so for donkies years. Most we have ever got in one day over seven farms ( if I recall ) was 113.

A lot of farmers around here have built hard standing and installed 3 phase for statics and caravans, and a lot of farms have rookeries, and a lot of farmers wives don't take kindly to rook carp covering their clients caravans and cars, nor their outdoor furniture, nor the bed linen used in those caravans hanging on washing lines, nor the play areas for kids and the trampolines that those kids play on. If there's a chance 'anything' interferes with a farmers wife and her income then that 'anything' gets sorted. Nothing gets between a farmers wife and her income. There's only one thing worse than an angry farmer, and that's an angry farmers wife.

[Zetter]

I thought so, thanks for the replies so far. Thames Valley Police I've heard are discouraging .22LR grants because of ricochet potential - they prefer.17HMR, is this calibre suitable for fox? What I've seen it do to rabbits suggests it is!

 

This is an odd one from TVP I applied for both and got both and nothing was mentioned about steering me towards HMR in fact I didn't get my HMR for nearly 8 months as I went for the .22LR first. Beds and Herts also seem to be on the .17HMR its less risky regarding ricochet tune.

However on a farm I shoot over in Cambs the farmer had a .22lr and when he went for .17HMR the FEO only let him have it on the condition he got permission off his neighbour to shoot his ground as well as it was a more powerful round than his .22lr???

 

You do wish there was more consistency.

[RossEM]

My point was that he didn't mention whether there was a safe backstop or not - there are a lot of novice members on the page and omitting that detail sets an incredibly bad example IMO.

I've no experience of shooting branchers (but totally sympathise with controlling them), only supervised shooting of rabbits, carrion crows and foxes with .22 & .222 so can't really comment but I don't think I'd be comfortable without a backstop.

 

That's weird about TVP. My former FEO told me he was personally discouraging new FAC applicants from .22LR (not that he has any real grounds to do so) and I was very surprised, because as far as I know .17HMR is a much harder hitting and longer range calibre than .22 - you would think that TVP would be cautious about granting a more 'lethal' calibre to novices.

[Zetter]

My point was that he didn't mention whether there was a safe backstop or not - there are a lot of novice members on the page and omitting that detail sets an incredibly bad example IMO.

I've no experience of shooting branchers (but totally sympathise with controlling them), only supervised shooting of rabbits, carrion crows and foxes with .22 & .222 so can't really comment but I don't think I'd be comfortable without a backstop.

 

That's weird about TVP. My former FEO told me he was personally discouraging new FAC applicants from .22LR (not that he has any real grounds to do so) and I was very surprised, because as far as I know .17HMR is a much harder hitting and longer range calibre than .22 - you would think that TVP would be cautious about granting a more 'lethal' calibre to novices.

 

There is still a big body of opinion from some of the local FEOs that .17HMR is a lot safer as its really doesnt riochet if it his anything solid. We know this is not the case but the myth persists making .17HMR seem the preferable round for first timers.