wymberley Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) That's surely got to be a criticism of the CA rather than hunting with dogs! No, it's a criticism of all the huntsmen who used that argument in the public domain. Please support it, shooting is under attack, let's move the front line back away from shooting, get the act repealled and the anti's will move the battle line back to where it was and shooting wiLl be back behind the lines instead of on the front line. We need unity Unity means that we're united for the common good. You say that we need it yet, as I read it, you appear to be shafting the hunting with hounds brigade in order to get us out of the trenches. However, to my mind there is an element of poetic justice about it. Edited May 25, 2015 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 That's surely got to be a criticism of the CA rather than hunting with dogs! No, it's a criticism of all the huntsmen who used that argument in the public domain. Please support it, shooting is under attack, let's move the front line back away from shooting, get the act repealled and the anti's will move the battle line back to where it was and shooting wiLl be back behind the lines instead of on the front line. We need unity Unity means that we're united for the common good. You say that we need it yet, as I read it, you appear to be shafting the hunting with hounds brigade in order to get us out of the trenches. However, to my mind there is an element of poetic justice about it. No I'm not shafting anyone, I'm pointing out a truth, anti's hate hunting with dogs more than they do shooting....... If we get hunting back it will take some heat off shooting..... I started my hunting career with a ferret and a lurcher..... Dogs and ferrets and hunting everything I could with one or both of those was always my first love. I have taken everything possible with a dog. Where I used to live I developed loads of ferreting permission, I was paid to clear rabbits from some places, I only got my sgc and first gun to show my face during the summer and keep the farmers happy.....that developed and shooting is now a love in its own right. The huntsmen you mentioned will have been CA appointed spokesmen..... I am also annoyed that the media, government and even the country sports organisations allowed the miss information you have continued to propogate by saying "hunting with hounds" .... The act of parliment is hunting with dogs and this silly law affected a lot of dogmen like me which if we had been shown in the media would have seriously made a lot of labour mp's see the truth. This act has damaged hunters at the lower end of the spectrum more than those at the top. I don't want to see a day when my kids and grand kids can't even use an air rifle to kill a rat, and for that reason I think we should all fight for this act repealling, as I say move the battle line back where it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Yep, an error on my part. I said hounds but meant and should have said, dogs. Not necessarily CA spokespersons - there were countless letters/interviews/etc in the media from/with many different people involved in the general 'hunting' activities - yep, many could well have been members of various associations but excluding the more 'formal' interview/article comment by the CA or whatever, they were representing their own personal thoughts or ideas which had somehow been implanted in their minds as a means to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Im not signing because they will only use it as some sort of diversionary tactic when they want something put through parliament that they dont want us to know about just like when they banned it. It will never be repealed anyway cost the cons too many votes. is it best not to just make amendments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 (edited) Ask yourself the Blair government spent 700 parliamentary hours debating the hunting act.....why? When it only took 7 parliamentary hours debating going to war in Iraq!!.........to placate left wing class warriors?....must have been because it had nothing to do with animal welfare! Whatever our beliefs, It is our duty as citizens to stand up for the individuals freedom to choose, and to oppose and repeal unfair and/or bad law, such as any law carried through on misinformation, ignorance, falsehoods and dogma! I do not hunt, but I see fox hunting as a legitimate form of humane and neccesary pest control enjoyed by those that participate in it, and I support an individual's right to do so if he/she chooses!...I use the word " enjoy" because that is what the antis are against........ "Hunters can kill things..........but only how and when they say so.........and above all, we must not enjoy it!" Edited May 26, 2015 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye18 Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 As much as i dont support hunting with dogs ive still signed as i see it as part of country sports in general and i believe that everyone should stand as one wether you hunt with gun,dog,ferret or whatever,we should fight government at every opportunity to stop them banning things in the first place!If shooters and shooting organizations dont get their #### together and support one another then we are doomed.Pistols gone,slr's gone, whats next? I hope one day there'll be no more in fighting and a serious effort to get everything back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmmawr Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 Done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 I emailed my MP, a Tory, so it might stand for something. I might do a video on this topic ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simjakcal Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Thank you for your recent email, indicating your support for repeal of the Hunting Act. There are wholly differing views on this controversial subject, and whilst I respect the view of those who seek a repeal, I cannot however agree with those views, and will not be supporting a repeal. Firstly, I would argue that enough parliamentary time has been spent on this issue, with sometime more heat than light shed on the complexities of the competing arguments, and the matter has been settled. To reverse a decision taken only just over a decade ago, is to invite a future government to reverse that reversal, and on we go! The Act is working reasonable well, and does not need revisiting. Secondly, the change of most hunts to trail hunting with scent has not destroyed the tradition of pursuit. In fact, many hunts report increased numbers of participants and spectators. There have been few successful prosecutions, and those which have taken place have been deserved. Flagrant abuse of the legislation for pure blood-sport is rightly punished, whereas legal trail hunting continues and even flourishes in places. Finally, there are landowners who dispute even the necessity of hunts for pest-control. I enclose a link to an article from one such farmer, from a Conservatives against Fox Hunting website. So whilst I am aware that repeal of the Hunting Act is a matter of principle for some people involved in hunting, and I respect that viewpoint, I cannot agree & will not support any attempt to repeal the Act for the reasons given above. Thank you again for taking the time to contact me on this most controversial of issues. Yours sincerely, Huw Irranca-Davies MP for Ogmore John Ravenscroft (@JMRavenscroft) tweeted at 10:46 am on Mon, May 18, 2015: Livestock Farmer's article against fox hunting: https://t.co/1WFKpkBumz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) i got this back from adrian bailey today , hopefully you can read it as itll take me an hour to type. i think he may have slightly missed my point. Edited May 27, 2015 by mel b3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Lots of them do miss the point as its something they have no experience of like firearms...... They need it breaking down into simpler parts, not because they are stupid but because its outside their frame of reference and they only know of mounted hunts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHN BOY Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 Done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted May 27, 2015 Report Share Posted May 27, 2015 I got a Letter back too from Robin Walker MP, Worcester, he was supportive and would vote to overturn the ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Recieved this from the local Conservarives MP: Dear Constituent, Thank you for your email. Although it is likely to be a free vote (should it be bought before Parliament), please be assured I would not vote to repeal the Hunting Act. I trust that puts your mind at rest. Heidi Allen MP Member of Parliament for South Cambridgeshire Doesn't seem to have understood the question, thinks I'm an anti. Plus "bought" before? Edited May 28, 2015 by TriBsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 sorry guys, i wont be signing. dont agree with it and never have. any type of pest control is best done with minimal suffering inflicted upon said pest imho. chasing a fox with a pack of dogs is not, in my opinion, right or humane. and while i appreciate that some are voting to form a sort of unity, as to possibly protect themsleves in the long run, my own sense of what i feel is right and wrong is more important to me. best of luck to those who wish to see it repealled though, each to their own and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) sorry guys, i wont be signing. dont agree with it and never have. any type of pest control is best done with minimal suffering inflicted upon said pest imho. chasing a fox with a pack of dogs is not, in my opinion, right or humane. and while i appreciate that some are voting to form a sort of unity, as to possibly protect themsleves in the long run, my own sense of what i feel is right and wrong is more important to me. best of luck to those who wish to see it repealled though, each to their own and all that. Let's get real here, can you reliably pick a cull animal at 200 yards with a lamp? I am not saying not to shoot foxes but hunting them with dogs is a far better way of selecting a weaker cull animal, it is a natural way to hunt and manage the ecosystem. Edited May 30, 2015 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Let's get real here, can you reliably pick a cull animal at 200 yards with a lamp? I am not saying not to shoot foxes but hunting them with dogs is a far better way of selecting a weaker cull animal, it is a natural way to hunt and manage the ecosystem. If it's pest control then why would anyone want to pick 'a weaker cull animal' ? This is what I mean about why it is necessary for those who want to hunt foxes with hounds having to decide, then make clear and then present a consistent argument for hunting foxes with hounds. When you consider that foxes didn't exist in Australia until they were deliberately introduced for 'sport' in the 1800's, then the theory of pest control doesn't really stand up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) If it's pest control then why would anyone want to pick 'a weaker cull animal' ? This is what I mean about why it is necessary for those who want to hunt foxes with hounds having to decide, then make clear and then present a consistent argument for hunting foxes with hounds. When you consider that foxes didn't exist in Australia until they were deliberately introduced for 'sport' in the 1800's, then the theory of pest control doesn't really stand up. It's a question of how you view foxes? Vermin or Game? If they are game they are maintained and managed in the ecosytem in such a way they can survive with a healthy population, the other is indiscriminate and intends to wipe them out. Intention is irrelevant to the fox at this point ... Edited May 30, 2015 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 If it's pest control then why would anyone want to pick 'a weaker cull animal' ? This is what I mean about why it is necessary for those who want to hunt foxes with hounds having to decide, then make clear and then present a consistent argument for hunting foxes with hounds. When you consider that foxes didn't exist in Australia until they were deliberately introduced for 'sport' in the 1800's, then the theory of pest control doesn't really stand up. I agree, it is either a pest or it isn't. If it is a pest then it needs removing, if it's not then it doesn't. My gut feeling is that the supporters of fox hunting with dogs struggle to give a compelling argument that stands up to hard scrutiny. If the argument of tradition, sport and enjoyment are not enough to win hearts and minds then contrived argument won't work either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) 2 points srs, 1. Its not about culling, its about pest control. You of all people should know that they are 2 completely different things... 2. It may be a more 'natural' way, but it certainly isnt the most efficient way and it causes a darn sight more suffering to the animal than a .223 ever would. Edited May 30, 2015 by brett1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 There are also grave scientific problems with the notion of fox hunting being a more natural way to go about it. For the fox, its nature and physique, it's actually pretty alien. A predator's nature to avoid is very different to a prey's nature to flee. The comparison isn't as deer is to hound, so fox is to hound. in terms of animal nature and evolution, it's as cheetah is to leopard, so fox is to hound. fox nature to predators is either dominate or avoid, not need to flee for its life over miles and miles. So, the argument that it's somehow more natural doesn't quite stack up. For it to be natural, the hounds would call off their run as soon as the fox was away from their territory, or no longer posed prey competition. Whether hunting should or shouldn't be allowed is a different matter, but it's not a matter of using a more natural way, because that's not altogether accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 It's a question of how you view foxes? Vermin or Game? If they are game they are maintained and managed in the ecosytem in such a way they can survive with a healthy population, the other is indiscriminate and intends to wipe them out. Intention is irrelevant to the fox at this point ... Game is encouraged to flourish, vermin isn't. Do we encourage foxes to flourish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Game is encouraged to keep within a certain population. And as people who shoot pests we might be tasked with 'wiping out' a species in a local area but we both know we don't do that. We ensure a population of say rabbits is kept under control but also maintained. Would you be happy using ferrets at this time of year? Wiping out a burrow of kittens? I might shoot the odd one but I know to largely leave them alone at this time of year. That is conservation. And it is no different to fox hunting. Incidently I have done a video on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwmmawr Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Have a look at this video from my area of the world .the antis would have you belive it's all toffs and redcoats not a lot of that where I am from just farmers wanting to use the right number of hounds to do the job properly in this terrain. http://fedwfp.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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