Gordon R Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Catweazle - don't put yourself down, although you don't appear to be able to read properly. Edited May 30, 2015 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Probably because alcohol and tobacco were the first drugs that man invented and have Been around for hundreds of years and have become accepted in society as the norm . Probably, but also and possibly more importantly because its manufacture can be controlled and therefore revenue gathered as tax. Illegal drugs ( even the illegal manufacture of that legal high, alcohol ) can't be controlled therefore revenue is lost. Even as far back as the 1700's excise men were allowed to enter private homes to see if cider was being produced. That other legal high, tobacco, is only legal if you've paid the revenue that is its tax. Call me a cynic, but that's a fact. Edited May 30, 2015 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Not bright enough to read his post properly though ;-) Ah thank you. Someone who can actually figure it out. I didn`t really think it was that difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Does tobacco make you high? I've never smoked or even tried one but my mum smoked for 60 years and never looked high. Surely if government thought it was safe they would tax it to the hilt, great revenue stream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Danger-Mouse - in Catweazle you have found your level. I thought you had bowed out of bickering, but then again - consistency isn't your strong suit. Feel free to have the last word, as I have said my last on the subject. I won't post further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Does tobacco make you high? I've never smoked or even tried one but my mum smoked for 60 years and never looked high. Surely if government thought it was safe they would tax it to the hilt, great revenue stream? Define how getting high feels. Define how getting high looks. Nicotine can give a definite light-headedness but it`s nothing like getting drunk. And as with any drug the user develops a tolerance for it. With nicotine, depending on how often it`s used, a user might experience that head rush on the first cigarette of the day or each cigarette if they have several hours between smokes. For a heavy user that feeling might come very rarely, if at all. By that point the smoking is simply a habit, and one that can be very difficult to crack. The general opinion is that it`s harder to give up nicotine than it is to give up heroin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I watched a young man, a lovely lad when clean destroy his life and his parents lives (good good people who tried everything to get him off drugs) I saw him steal off family friends anyone, in order to feed his habit, and I had the pleasure of taking his heart broken mother and brother to hospital only for them to find out he was dead when we got there, but like you say I know nowt about drugs! yet you who have apparently never touched so much as a spliff know all about them eh! KW Someone close to my family took their life with a legally held shotgun, shall we outlaw guns? I don't post this to make light of your story nor to bring up mine but it is simply not the case that everyone who takes drugs ends up dead, stealing, an addict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 they are all full of bull, "I do this and I do that" but if it came to the crunch they would LIE to the FEO, I will ask again, where is this in this thread? I've not seen anyone saying they do drugs?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Didnt 995 say that or am I imagining it? Anyway long story short from what I have seen for myself drugs ruin lives cannabis is particularly life changing, my partner is a learning disability/mental health nurse and her father is a top guy in child protection services and drugs play a massive part of that. What I cant understand is people who compare the damages of legal drink to illegal drugs, the legal drinking causes massive problems so why would you want something else brought into the mainstream? Dont we all have enough problems? The only thing I am for is research on ilegal drugs for medical purposes, if someone is suffering from an awfull illness I would be fine with them trying everything they can to help ease their suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Bah double Edited May 30, 2015 by pimpkiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 What I cant understand is people who compare the damages of legal drink to illegal drugs, the legal drinking causes massive problems so why would you want something else brought into the mainstream? Dont we all have enough problems? People compare it because it shows the hypocritical attitude that allows one drug that causes lots of damage to be legally sold, but to make other drugs, which may do less damage, illegal. And why bring something else into the mainstream. Well it`s a personal choice if someone wants to take a drug. I`m very fond of this quote from the late, great Bill Hicks... “Here is my final point...About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography...What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, or take into my body as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? And for those who are having a little moral dilemma in your head about how to answer that question, I'll answer it for you. NONE of your ******* business. Take that to the bank, cash it, and go ******* on a vacation out of my life.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 People compare it because it shows the hypocritical attitude that allows one drug that causes lots of damage to be legally sold, but to make other drugs, which may do less damage, illegal. And why bring something else into the mainstream. Well it`s a personal choice if someone wants to take a drug. I`m very fond of this quote from the late, great Bill Hicks... “Here is my final point...About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography...What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, or take into my body as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? And for those who are having a little moral dilemma in your head about how to answer that question, I'll answer it for you. NONE of your ******* business. Take that to the bank, cash it, and go ******* on a vacation out of my life.” Unfortunately Mr Hicks had a bit of a simplistic attitude with that last paragraph,because taking an excess of anything legal or illegal does harm others on this planet, it can be anything to being a victim of your excess which will impact on your family, stealing to fund your excess which harms the community,or even the people who have to look after and clean up after you have an excess of your excess.It is never anybody's business to start off with ,but unfortunately it can quickly become someone's business. But we are humans we are programmed to experiment and try new things,we have an addictive personality which can be anything from sugar to heroin and lets not forget chocolate biscuits, If drugs disappeared overnight the human race would find something else to get addicted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Unfortunately Mr Hicks had a bit of a simplistic attitude with that last paragraph,because taking an excess of anything legal or illegal does harm others on this planet, it can be anything to being a victim of your excess which will impact on your family, stealing to fund your excess which harms the community,or even the people who have to look after and clean up after you have an excess of your excess.It is never anybody's business to start off with ,but unfortunately it can quickly become someone's business. But we are humans we are programmed to experiment and try new things,we have an addictive personality which can be anything from sugar to heroin and lets not forget chocolate biscuits, If drugs disappeared overnight the human race would find something else to get addicted to. But if you don`t do the thing to excess, if you don`t cause any of the problems you`ve suggested . . . that`s the entire point of the quote. As long as your habits don`t cause harm to anyone, directly or indirectly then it shouldn`t be anyone else`s business. It`s idealistic, but then Bill was that kind of guy. I do completely agree with your last point though. That`s the entire reason these legal highs have popped up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 you cant beat a cold beer on a hot day, a good French red with your Beef Burgundy, and a single malt to unwind after a long day on the hill, thats my excuse and I'm stuck with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 ^ nothing wrong with that, getting smashed off your tits or sniffed off your biscuit then going for a drive or on the rob is a different thing though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Back in the late 60's when just a boy a buddy gave me a roll-up (assume cannabis - never found out) which made me seriously I'll for 36 hrs. The lasting effect was I could not even light a fag without being sick. Always fancied a cigar - memories of my grandad at Xmas - but even w/o inhaling I was sick. How much did my buddy save me?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srspower Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately Mr Hicks had a bit of a simplistic attitude with that last paragraph,because taking an excess of anything legal or illegal does harm others on this planet, it can be anything to being a victim of your excess which will impact on your family, stealing to fund your excess which harms the community,or even the people who have to look after and clean up after you have an excess of your excess.It is never anybody's business to start off with ,but unfortunately it can quickly become someone's business. But we are humans we are programmed to experiment and try new things,we have an addictive personality which can be anything from sugar to heroin and lets not forget chocolate biscuits, If drugs disappeared overnight the human race would find something else to get addicted to. How is that different to saying:- 'you shoot guns, guns can kill people, therefore you shouldn't have guns'? The hypocrisy here is astounding. Do you even know what the word liberty means? Freedom and personal responsibility! Until someone crosses the line and causes harm to others you have no right to judge them. Be that shooting, sexual preferences, drink, drugs, whatever. Edited May 31, 2015 by srspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 How is that different to saying:- 'you shoot guns, guns can kill people, therefore you shouldn't have guns'? The hypocrisy here is astounding. Do you even know what the word liberty means? Freedom and personal responsibility! Until someone crosses the line and causes harm to others you have no right to judge them. Be that shooting, sexual preferences, drink, drugs, whatever. Did you even understand what I had written? And do you understand what the word excess means?i suggest you read it again in the context of the discussion we are having on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Someone close to my family took their life with a legally held shotgun, shall we outlaw guns? I don't post this to make light of your story nor to bring up mine but it is simply not the case that everyone who takes drugs ends up dead, stealing, an addict. The shotgun was used as a tool the question is what made him? very different to drugs which are the direct cause IE THE killer rather than an indirect method of achieving an intended result, but you already knew that. apologies for re-entering the thread but had to counter. KW Edited May 31, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The shotgun was used as a tool the question is what made him? very different to drugs which are the direct cause IE THE killer rather than an indirect method of achieving an intended result, but you already knew that. apologies for re-entering the thread but had to counter. KW I wasn't going to mention this as I don't know all the facts really as I was a young teen at the time, but a cousin of mine took his own life with a 12 bore when the drinking he was addicted to became too much for his family to cope with. I remember him as a bit of a lad, always happy and with good intentions but he always seemed to get it wrong, and everything he touched seemed to go wrong according to relatives who remember him better than me. Despite being very intelligent and holding down a very well paid job ( on the rigs I think ) he never took anything seriously and I recall his brother telling me he simply never grew up. He liked a drink admittedly, but it eventually got the better of him. He left behind a wife and two sons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Define how getting high feels. Define how getting high looks. Nicotine can give a definite light-headedness but it`s nothing like getting drunk. And as with any drug the user develops a tolerance for it. With nicotine, depending on how often it`s used, a user might experience that head rush on the first cigarette of the day or each cigarette if they have several hours between smokes. For a heavy user that feeling might come very rarely, if at all. By that point the smoking is simply a habit, and one that can be very difficult to crack. The general opinion is that it`s harder to give up nicotine than it is to give up heroin. To me a high is something that brings intense enjoyment, like when i see my daughter achieve something or gives me a hug and tells me she loves me, a family day out. A quick search on google tells us that 23% of heroin users go on to be addicts, not sure the same applies to alcohol. For me it's the fact that you do not know what is in illegal drugs or how you will react therefore neither me or anyone i mix with uses the stuff and and would not want to be connected in any to those that do. Just my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 you cant beat a cold beer on a hot day, a good French red with your Beef Burgundy, and a single malt to unwind after a long day on the hill, thats my excuse and I'm stuck with it + me Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) The shotgun was used as a tool the question is what made him? very different to drugs which are the direct cause IE THE killer rather than an indirect method of achieving an intended result, but you already knew that. apologies for re-entering the thread but had to counter. KW Surely no more so than drugs being a tool in which someone looks to escape their day to day life? What makes someone take their life with a shotgun? Possibly similar reasons that someone choose to take drugs? Depression? Wanting to escape? Discontentment with their life? Family problems? It still doesn't change the fact that not everyone who takes drugs ends up dying from them, nor does owning a gun mean you will go on a shooting spree or kill yourself with it. Edited May 31, 2015 by LondonLuke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I will ask again, where is this in this thread? I've not seen anyone saying they do drugs?! You really should re-read this thread . There are clear indications of some members have admitted to taking drugs . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 You really should re-read this thread . There are clear indications of some members have admitted to taking drugs . Harnser I've seen people say they have used previously and I've seen people accused of being users due to them not buying into the hyperbole but no current user declaration. It is of course possible I have missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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