Danger-Mouse Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe we need a double edged approach, put a rocket up the rear of the lazy, workshy **** who unfortunately were born here. Force them to work if there are vacancies. Maybe, just maybe, if people were actually paid a wage they could live on and see a definite improvement in their lifestyle for working then less people would be inclined to just sign on. I`ve no doubt there are some out there that would rather just do that but I believe it`s a small minority. However, and I speak from experience, getting up every morning to do a job you hate, that may well be physically exhausting and mind blowingly dull, to find yourself better off by £20 to £40 a week isn`t really much of an incentive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe, just maybe, if people were actually paid a wage they could live on and see a definite improvement in their lifestyle for working then less people would be inclined to just sign on. I`ve no doubt there are some out there that would rather just do that but I believe it`s a small minority. However, and I speak from experience, getting up every morning to do a job you hate, that may well be physically exhausting and mind blowingly dull, to find yourself better off by £20 to £40 a week isn`t really much of an incentive. You are right, but I would suggest that it is also a matter of one's upbringing and the kind of values their family instill in them. As a matter of fact, I believe this is of paramount importance. A work ethic cannot be bought or tempted into anyone. You either have it by observing those around you when you grow up or you do not. Up here there are families with three generations who do not know a day's work. Surely this is wrong. As for imigration, especially the one within the EU, it is certainly a good thing. Simply because it ensures a wider sellection for employers. I strongly believe that the best qualified and/or experienced man (or woman) should get the job they apply for. Competition is good, makes everyone who wants a job invest in themselves. There are no two ways about it. A selection based on local heritage is not good busines, just populist politics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) I think uncontrolled immigration is bad for any country. If we had a points system like Australia or Canada then it would be fine, because then we'd only get the people we need. As it is, we don't even have a clue how many people are coming to the UK, and the official figure is probably only half of the actual figure ..... if we're lucky. Each and every new immigrant adds to the strain on our resources, and unless we know exactly how many to cater for we will be in trouble. I am not anti immigration - I have emigrated to South Africa (25 years) and Canada (2 years) myself, so I know how difficult it can be to start again in a new country. When I went to Canada in 2004, the waiting list for a permanent residence visa was a little over 3 years, and while overseas qualifications might help to actually get in to the country, you still have to take Canadian examinations to become fully qualified there. The situation in the UK needs to change very quickly, because otherwise the infrasructure here will go past the point of no return. When that happens, the immigrants will probably wander off somewhere else and we'll all be left with the consequences. Edited June 7, 2015 by Les*1066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Reading this, I'm suprised ukip didn't win the election. The aussie style points system they want and what I want. The masses of eastern block former soviet state immigrants we currently have are just lowering wages, yet when anyone criticises immigration someone wheels out a doctor, nurse or other nhs professional born abroad (they would get in anyway under a points system) There is a massive argument for forcing unemployed to work for that we need the minimum wage raising to actually make people better off by working. Mass migration isn't helping.... Increased crime, increased demand on public services, increased competition for school places, housing, benefits etc........ My family are immigrants a few generations back, and a lot of immigrants here want to raise the borders. We need out of the eu..... It won't affect anyhing that matters, we will still be able to recruit asian doctors (outside the eu and from a former commonwealth country which ukip want to encourage) and still be able to go abroad and trade abroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's good to see a sensible debate on this problem without descending into overt racism etc. What a pity that ordinary, sensible people have no say in the policies of this country. Are politicians really so far out of touch with what we feel? I think they are completely isolated in their little bubble of self importance and don't actually see the problems ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's good to see a sensible debate on this problem without descending into overt racism etc. What a pity that ordinary, sensible people have no say in the policies of this country. Are politicians really so far out of touch with what we feel? I think they are completely isolated in their little bubble of self importance and don't actually see the problems ahead. Problem with politicians is that their employers don't give them enough direction..... (We pay them) Use this link https://www.writetothem.com/ I email my opinion to my mp on all the major issues and point out I won't be voting for him if I don't like the replies, they are meant to formulate policies on the publics feelings, too many moan about politics but don't tell politicians what they want...... This is a good debate though An example is the hunting act, formulated by mps after very few but very vocal antis lobbied and petitioned the mps making them think there was a massive anti hunt population, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 https://www.writetothem.com/ That's a cracking link, thanks for that. May ask 'call me Dave' that as seeing as 'we're all in this together' I can share his wage rise; I haven't had one for over 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Okay, i'll start packing up... Bye Bye...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sable Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 we are sinking under the weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootgun Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Bye Bye...... You wish... i changed my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 to play the devils advocate, it makes me smile when people hold up the aussie system as the way to go, the people of Australia were quite happily in their existance as hunter gatherers for approx 50,000 years until finally some British came along and in a short while they had committed genocide in Tasmania and put a price on the head of the black fellas in Queensland, the rest is (recent) "history" so they say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 That's a cracking link, thanks for that. May ask 'call me Dave' that as seeing as 'we're all in this together' I can share his wage rise; I haven't had one for over 10 years. If dave is your mp you can email him....... You can't just email the pm direct. I am awaiting a further response from my mp after I challenged his opinion on the hunting act and corrected his mistakes and inaccuracies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 As I say, mps make up their opinion from those who speak to them The anti hunt lot are very good at such canvassing and making their numbers seem bigger by harassing mps through such as that link..... Causing mps to think there are loads wanting hunting banned..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 to play the devils advocate, it makes me smile when people hold up the aussie system as the way to go, the people of Australia were quite happily in their existance as hunter gatherers for approx 50,000 years until finally some British came along and in a short while they had committed genocide in Tasmania and put a price on the head of the black fellas in Queensland, the rest is (recent) "history" so they say As immigrants did in North America, and Canada, and Africa, and South America, and New Zealand, and India ........ I read a book once where the American author said he found it strangely ironic that the American military named one of its helicopters (Apache) after a race they had effectively tried to ethnically cleanse. You couldn't make it up really could you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 As I say, mps make up their opinion from those who speak to them The anti hunt lot are very good at such canvassing and making their numbers seem bigger by harassing mps through such as that link..... Causing mps to think there are loads wanting hunting banned..... 'Call me Dave' isn't my MP, so would have to email his representative Rory, to ask if he is willing to share his 10%. He still hasn't replied to my 'repeal the hunting act' email yet though, so I'm not too encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Croc Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 My last MP never answered one of my emails (would do if I wrote a letter) He has now gone, I'm wondering if the new one is any different, judging by what I've read about him, I won't be holding my breath (he's a Tory) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 to play the devils advocate, it makes me smile when people hold up the aussie system as the way to go, the people of Australia were quite happily in their existance as hunter gatherers for approx 50,000 years until finally some British came along and in a short while they had committed genocide in Tasmania and put a price on the head of the black fellas in Queensland, the rest is (recent) "history" so they say Ha, yes. Plus they actually do have a free movement of people policy between Australia and NZ - granted the scales are not the same but ratios aren't wildly different. I don't think we should copy Australia and Canada per se as we are different in many ways, but we should be looking at countries all over the world to see what works for them. The truth is that all countries have varying numbers of immigrants and the UK is middle table at worst so really the immigrant question has been overblown for political gain. There are problems but as is often the case perception is larger than the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 'Call me Dave' isn't my MP, so would have to email his representative Rory, to ask if he is willing to share his 10%. He still hasn't replied to my 'repeal the hunting act' email yet though, so I'm not too encouraged. I suppose that may depends how you contacted him, if that was through the elobby thing with a prewritten letter he might not reply....... And why I used the write to them website to send my message and personalise it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) The survey that said EU migrants are a financial benefit to the country.was fatally flawed. It was done by a German professor and only surveyed graduates. To me its a simple numbers game, we don't need any more people, don't care who they are or where they come from. They are redoing the pavements in a road near here this week. Every member of the crew doing it is Eastern European, no complaints from me. nice hard working friendly, polite etc they are doing a good job. .However, lets just back track on that a moment. When, exactly, did we get to the situation that we needed people from abroad to come and fix our pavements? What about all our unemployed? Its not a complicated question Got an issue there. Some of those unemployed British are third generation ones, even grandparents never worked. System is flawed. But no politican will change that ever, because those peolpe can vote.... Question: if someone offered 4x of your salary to move to the US, Australia, etc would You stay in the UK? Edited June 7, 2015 by londonercsecse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ha, yes. Plus they actually do have a free movement of people policy between Australia and NZ - granted the scales are not the same but ratios aren't wildly different. The Australia/New Zealand policy is a totally different beast to the European model. Most importantly it's a mutual agreement, not a binding treaty agreement as in the EU. It can, and has, been changed over the years to discourage benefit and health tourism, and there are barriers in place to prohibit criminals and 'people of concern' travelling between the two countries. Unfortunately treaty change within the EU is virtually impossible to secure...hence the position we now find ourselves in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 had an engineer come to repair robot loader at jaguar just back from s korea their system is this they have colleges training for jobs they need and do not have unemployment issues because they retire early to stop this .they do not teach teach skills for non jobs but for what they need in future good system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Ha, yes. Plus they actually do have a free movement of people policy between Australia and NZ - granted the scales are not the same but ratios aren't wildly different. Sort of true but they still have caveats via the immigration act such as criminal records and other reasons IE threat to security, risk to others etc,prohibiting entry, so its not a direct in as you please and passports DO still need to be shown? spot the difference? KW Edited June 7, 2015 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Armsid, yes good idea. I just think instead of getting doctors or whatever from abroad why dont they consider why non are coming out of our education system and working here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Got an issue there. Some of those unemployed British are third generation ones, even grandparents never worked. System is flawed. But no politican will change that ever, because those peolpe can vote.... Question: if someone offered 4x of your salary to move to the US, Australia, etc would You stay in the UK? No.......too many immigrants....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Edwards Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) One of my friends is at medical school, and it was by no means an easy ride to get. Entry requirements are stupidly high, compared to normal degrees. He had to get A grades at A-Level in chemistry, maths and biology, which is no easy feat, and then a medical school would only take him if he had practical experience, so he volunteered to work in a hospice for a whole year. He could have lazed around in his A-levels, gone to uni to "study" media or film studies, and spent 3 years on the lash, like a large number of students do. I think the higher education system has a lot to do with the UK's lack of medical professionals. The Labour government brought in new degree types in the late 90's and early 2000s to tempt more young people into going into further education. These were such as Film Studies, Media, Fashion, Photography etc, ie. Nothing that actually provides skills. Kids started knocking useful degrees on the head, such as medicine, engineering, the sciences, and replacing them with "fun" degrees, such as "Fashion Journalism", or "Animation". It could be something to do with the rise of the liberal "do what you love to do" mentality, rather than the much more conservative "if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing right" mentality. Lots of graduates, just a lot with Micky Mouse degrees. Edited June 7, 2015 by J_Edwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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