Danger-Mouse Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) A few weeks ago I managed to secure my first permission. It`s not a huge area but at least I now have somewhere to walk around or set up a few decoys on. I`ve been up a few times and the pickings have been sparse to say the least, very little flighting around. Nonetheless I`ve enjoyed my time up there and I`m sure eventually I`ll have a good day on it. There`s a track that runs through the middle of the land and I noticed there were plenty of crows and pigeons on the side where I don`t have permission to shoot. So I did a little asking around and found out who owns those fields. Took a trip over to the farm whose land it is tonight and knocked on the door. A young lad answered and I explained who I was, where I`d been shooting and that I was hoping to gain permission to shoot in those fields. The lad said he had no problem with me shooting there but that all the shooting rights were held by one guy and he was very territorial. He was also well regarded by the farmer and as such the lad didn`t want to upset him. I said no problem, I understand and asked if I could call back to leave a business card just in case circumstances changed and the lad said that was fine. So my plan for now is to sort out the business cards and then call back. When I do I`ll see if I can get the shooter`s number and see if I can arrange a meeting with him. I understand him being protective of his shooting permission but I`m not after shooting the entire farm, just the fields that run parallel to the ones I already have. So does anyone have any advice on this? Anyone dealt with a similar situation? Does my approach sound ok? Edited June 7, 2015 by Danger-Mouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 good you had a go and try to shoot it but game keepers are a funny lot and think they own the land,. and want the shooting for there self.i dont shoot any farms that have a game keeper on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 good you had a go and try to shoot it but game keepers are a funny lot and think they own the land,. and want the shooting for there self.i dont shoot any farms that have a game keeper on there. I`m not sure he`s an official gamekeeper hence adding /shooter in the thread title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 might help if instead of asking for shooting permission you ask if you could beat for him in season , get to no him then ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul taylor Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'll drop you one of my cards to leave with him if you want mate 😉😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'll drop you one of my cards to leave with him if you want mate Cheers but I`m just in the process of designing one. There will no doubt be a thread on the subject appearing soon might help if instead of asking for shooting permission you ask if you could beat for him in season , get to no him then ask I`ve no idea if there is a game shoot on there but I`ll definitely try that approach if there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okrang Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) This is a bit confusing really! The young lad told you that....."all the shooting rights were held by one guy and he was very territorial. He was well regarded by the farmer and as such the young lad didn't want to upset him" You then bring a 'gamekeeper' into the equation - is the 'gamekeeper' the 'one guy' who holds the shooting rights? If he is, then I can understand him being a bit territorial - wouldn't you be? Has the farmer sold or otherwise assigned 'shooting rights' to the 'gamekeeper'? If it is land managed by a gamekeeper and used for game shooting, I can see that 'other' shooting on the land would necessarily be very much controlled by the owner of the 'shooting rights'! Or, is this a situation where a farmer has given someone permission to shoot on his land and you are seeking permission to shoot boundaries overlapping with your adjoining permission? Cheers, John. Edited June 6, 2015 by Okrang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 This is a bit confusing really! The young lad told you that....."all the shooting rights were held by one guy and he was very territorial. He was well regarded by the farmer and as such the young lad didn't want to upset him" You then bring a 'gamekeeper' into the equation - is the 'gamekeeper' the 'one guy' who holds the shooting rights? If he is, then I can understand him being a bit territorial - wouldn't you be? Has the farmer sold or otherwise assigned 'shooting rights' to the 'gamekeeper'? If it is land managed by a gamekeeper and used for game shooting, I can see that 'other' shooting on the land would necessarily be very much controlled by the owner of the 'shooting rights'! Or, is this a situation where a farmer has given someone permission to shoot on his land and you are seeking permission to shoot boundaries overlapping with your adjoining permission? Cheers, John. I`m not 100% sure myself. Whilst I was trying to find out whose farm it was I was told by someone that the person currently shooting the land was a gamekeeper but that may just be an incorrect interpretation of the shooter`s role. I`m not aware of any formal shoots taking place on the farm and I haven`t seen any evidence of feeders or pens. The farmer`s son said they already had someone shooting on the land but never used the term gamekeeper. My own inclination after conversing with the lad is that it`s just someone who has permission to shoot there but who doesn`t like other shooters on the land. The only part of the farm I want to shoot are 4 or 5 fields that run adjacent to my existing permission, as you say, on the boundary. I hope that clears it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okrang Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 In which case I think your approach is entirely correct! I guess the ultimate clarification would come from the farmer, as opposed to his son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadorna Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe the unknown shooter should approach your landowner and try and shoot the fields bordering his. That may clarify things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe the unknown shooter should approach your landowner and try and shoot the fields bordering his. That may clarify things. Sorry, I don`t understand what you mean. Have been up again today and I`ve now found out that 2 of the fields I want to shoot belong to a different farmer so the hunt is on to find out who that is. Plus I now reckon that I only need permission to shoot a single field belonging to the farm I visited yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Sorry, I don`t understand what you mean. Have been up again today and I`ve now found out that 2 of the fields I want to shoot belong to a different farmer so the hunt is on to find out who that is. Plus I now reckon that I only need permission to shoot a single field belonging to the farm I visited yesterday. What he means is how would you feel if your neighboring shooter asked your landowner to shoot the land you shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 What he means is how would you feel if your neighboring shooter asked your landowner to shoot the land you shoot. In all honesty it wouldn`t bother me one bit. I already share the permission with a friend. And at the end of the day it`s not my land, I don`t have any right to dictate who shoots on it, that`s the landowner`s choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) well i shoot on a judges land,and he had some one ask him if he could shoot on it,the judge said to me do i mine and i said yes,he said ok you can have it all. that was 10 years ago,iv shot the land for 25 years.its best you shoot it then when you go out you know no one eles has been there. Edited June 7, 2015 by mossy835 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 well i shoot on a judges land,and he had some one ask him if he could shoot on it,the judge said to me do i mine and i said yes,he said ok you can have it all. that was 10 years ago,iv shot the land for 25 years.its best you shoot it then when you go out you know no one eles has been there. I guess I`m just not that selfish. I can`t be on my permission 24 hours a day 7 days a week so why shouldn`t someone else be allowed to enjoy shooting there? I can possibly see the point when a permission is small but when you`re talking about a large farm then I see no reason for that attitude. As long as each shooter respects the farmer`s rules and respects the other shooter`s rights then I don`t see any problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ok, interesting development. When I chatted with the farmer`s son he gave me the name of the other shooter. On the off chance I`ve just tried looking it up in the phone book (it`s not a common surname) and I believe I now have the guy`s phone number and address. So do I just give him a call or do I drive over and see if I can talk to him face to face? On a personal level I`d rather have the F2F chat but then again I`m not sure how someone would react to a complete stranger turning up at their home and asking about shooting rights. I guess the other alternative is a letter. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckandswing Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 If he's very territorial like suggested, turning up would likely not be the best thing to do. I would leave a letter/message with the farmer say you wouldn't mind a chat with the other shooter. Just to chat through things etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 might be worth having a chat with this other shooter and bartering with him... if he lets you shoot that bit of land that you want, then offer to let him shoot on some of your land... or, just give him a call, explain the situation and ask him if he fancies coming decoying with you for a day? keep it friendly and you may find that you end up with more than that 1 field to shoot on.... sounds like it could be beneficial for both of you in the long run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Why would anyone really want to share a permission with a total stranger? I'd be amazed if u get a positive outcome from this, U don't have to read this forun for that long to see people who have generously took folk out only for them to try and shaft them and get the shooting for themselves by offering decent money to the farmer. All sorts of H&S issues althou the major 1 will be if u have been saving a field till numbers build up and u go in the day before and shoot it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Why would anyone really want to share a permission with a total stranger? I'd be amazed if u get a positive outcome from this, U don't have to read this forun for that long to see people who have generously took folk out only for them to try and shaft them and get the shooting for themselves by offering decent money to the farmer. All sorts of H&S issues althou the major 1 will be if u have been saving a field till numbers build up and u go in the day before and shoot it Maybe I won`t but I lose nothing by trying. And as I`ve said I don`t want to share his entire permission, just one field. As I said in the OP the farm seems to have a great deal of respect for him so trying to shaft him (which I have no intention of doing anyway) isn`t going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I wish you all the best, to me you sound very level headed. Hey you and the other shooter may get on well. We never know these things till we try, and thats how people become friends by talking to each other, life to short, go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Why would anyone really want to share a permission with a total stranger? it happens more than you think. and the reason in this case would be so that the OP may possibly gain a bit more land to shoot on when needed. some people arent too bothered about inviting people they dont know out for a days shooting with them, and other than on this forum i dont know of anyone in my area that has had someone try and pinch their permission out from underneath them. maybe some people have more morals than others down this end of the country, or maybe we just respect each other a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeon controller Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 You could talk to the "Gamekeeper " and suggest that you could thin out the crows and other vermin that might be taking his birds. Even beat for him if he allows you to shoot the fields you want. It's amatter of getting your name known in the area and it can take some time. I now always text a picture of my results to the Farmers and I've heard that some brag about our results at the local and market. So keep at it and in time you will achieve your goal.Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Easy way round this is bump into him whilst he's out shooting & start the conversation about the fields etc then. Problem is when does he shoot the land.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Good luck to u, but often a lot of keepers wil keep it as perks for the beaters and many other people who help them throu the year. Asking if he needs beaters would be a better 'in' rather than just 1st time speaking asking for shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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