The old "it's not a real Browning" chestnut

[RossEM]

Just been having a heated debate on the dreaded FB over the legendary Browning-ish Medallist shotgun!!

 

Now, my personal experience of these guns is that I owned one for years, and shot a lot with it, probably in the region of 9,000 cartridges. When I bought mine (an early 20 bore 3" version, with the solid mid-rib) it was well-used, I paid about £400 for it. I was never in any doubt that it was anything other than a decent gun, i.e. it didn't matter whether or not it was a "proper Browning" or not. It never missed a beat, I never had it serviced (just cleaned it after use) and it never let me down. In fact, I regret selling it!

 

I've spoken with a couple of people who are of the opinion that because the Medallist isn't a "proper Browning", it must be rubbish - this annoys me. I pointed out several things to them; the fact that Browning don't make any guns, they're made on their behalf at FN in Herstal, Belgium and the Miroku plant, Japan.

 

I also made the point that brand names being applied to guns manufactured by other parties is commonplace now , and has been historically, throughout the history of the worldwide gun trade (eg Zabala/BSA, OKCO/Winchester, Huglu/Webley etc) - the only company I know of that makes the entire component parts of its guns is Boss & Co. The possibility that the FIAS-made Medallist might actually be a better quality gun than the entry-level Citori (I believe it is.)

 

So what do we think qualifies a gun as merely retailed by the company, or made by the company?

What if a gun is just assembled by a well known company, but marketed as their own? Should it still bear their name?

What if the gun is manufactured by another party to a design by the retailer - should it be clearer that it's made under licence?

What, in principle, makes the Browning Medallist any different to the William Powell Pegasus?

Is branding just snobbery, or does it make a difference outside the top-end of the best-gun makers?

 

[chrisjh]

I doubt your average Joe would see any real difference if they spent £400 or £4000 equally an excellent shooter will get great scores whatever you handed them the difference is the small margin for those that shoot at the top of their game. Buy what you want because you enjoy why worry what someone else thinks. I had a Caesar Guerini sold it was after a Medallist but got a Rizzini plus a Winchester pump and a nice 410 for my grandson and a good few £ left over for cartridges , i shoot the Rizzini just as badly

 

Friend of mine goes on motorbike track days on an old 600 or his BMW adventure bike and smokes most of the £12000+ superbikes same as shooting its about ability, i am sure some peeps in shooting world turn up at comps and spank opposition with a £500 gun.

[Marki]

There is very little in this world that is truly 'made' by the name on the box. Assembled is probably a better description. I wonder if Hatsan assembled Browning shotguns would people still buy them?

[Scully]

I have often been critical of the term Browning Medalist but have never rubbished the gun. As far as I'm aware there is nothing at all wrong with the gun and models of it are still going strong. I wince each time I see the term Browning Medalist for sale because any potential buyer may pay out good money in the belief they are buying a Browning, when in fact they're not.

The Medalist was built in Italy to specifications laid out by Brownings then importers and was intended to be a lower end priced entry model but was marketed by the importers of Browning, so that is where the confusion arises.

I bought my nephew a lot of years ago a Lincoln Jubilee Prestige, supplied by David Nickerson. When it arrived I was disappointed to find it wasn't British made but in fact made by

FAIR Fabbrica D'Armi in Italy. However, it was a lovely gun and my nephew loved it and it functioned flawlessly, but he lost 500 quid on eventual resale.

I am a big Winchester 101 fan. They were made under license by Winchester/Browning at the Olin factory in Japan, and are in fact a Browning design, as is the Miroku, as is the Classic Doubles, and there is the difference. You will always see the Winchester name or logo on a 101, but you will never see the Browning name or logo on a Medalist. Some Medalists even had the name Browning on the box they were delivered in; marketing strategy or deliberate deception? There is nothing wrong with the Medalist, but it is NOT a Browning. Do not buy one thinking it is.

[bruno22rf]

I have the FIAS "Medalist"-identical in every way other than the name on the Rib-even the engraving is the same. I believe that Browning UK were losing sales because they did not have an "entry level" O/U and with the normal costs involved in design and then finding a manufacturer they simply decided to find a good quality but budget priced gun to put their name on-I would not be surprised if the idea was that a beginner would use a gun for 2-3 years and then buy a "proper" Browning having been introduced to the marque. The FIAS action is well and truly sorted and must have been made by the shed load-they also made various models using the same action-Game, Sporter multi-High rib trap etc so the way forward for Browning was simple-but the gun MUST have met their quality levels and ,I believe, that this is the reason that they are more desirable than any other gun in the price range at the time.

[fortune]

On some Briggs & Stratton engines there is a sticker that states "Proudly made in the USA", but the only part of the machine that is Proudly made in the USA is the sticker.

There are a growing amount of posters on here that are very brand or type snobs and come out with a load of nonsense such as >> a gun must have 30 inch barrels and a single trigger to be any use. Or the idea that you would be looked down on for having a pump or an auto. Still these barmy ideas don't half lead to some super bargains. Son in law recently bought an AyA #4 for £120 S/H from a shop and the thing has had very little use. It looks like it has just come out of the box. So in this respect snobbery of this type is a good thing. I must go and start looking for one of those cheap and nasty Churchill XX1V's.>> short barrels, double triggers, must be worth a tenner at least.

[welshwarrior]

A Browning medalist is not a browning it was only sold a such in the UK the FIAS is a good gun (especially in 20 bore) for the money, I see lots of options and choice one for my wife to learn with and have 3 family members that still use them.

 

Browning 325/425/525 are not Brownings IMHO they are Mirukos.

 

Browning A1 or B25 they are Brownings.

 

Just my view there are a lot of things not what they seem now a days like Italian boots made in Eastern Europe etc the Americans tend to be better at this than European companies.

[Vince Green]

There is a lot more of this going on in all forms of industry. Since we are talking about guns what about the Weatherby/ Howas. My ex wife's Hyundai was built at the same plant in Eastern Europe that they build Mercs. Ammunition is the big one these days, nobody knows who makes what anymore.

 

What does it matter? Many of these companies built their names on quality a hundred years ago when people's lives literally depended on them. Today who cares? I used to love my old Baikal o/u but my mate always used to have the odd sly dig. You don't see many baseball caps with Baikal on them HaHa!

Edited August 30, 2015 by Vince Green

[Twistedsanity]

Didn't know anything about this but I brought a s/h medalist a month back and it shoots as well as my silver pigeon I got brand new did, I drive a Chevrolet Camaro which is made by gM who also make Astras, daewoos have been rebranded as chevrolets now, it's just snobbery and one up man ship or friendly banter depending on your perspective

[war0st]

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a bloody duck. whats the matter with people have they nothing better to do but put their opinions about other peoples kit.

[BrowningB525]

I tend to refer to mine as:

 

"Browning" medallist.

[Scully]

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a bloody duck. whats the matter with people have they nothing better to do but put their opinions about other peoples kit.

With respect I think you've missed the point. No one buys a Daewoo believing it to be anything other than a Daewoo and no one buys a Hyundai believing it to be anything but a Hyundai, just as no one buys a Browning believing it to be anything but a Browning, but some people such as first time buyers may buy a Medalist believing it to be a Browning because people keep calling the gun a Browning Medalist; it isn't. Have a look in the for sale section; there are two Medalists currently for sale, both listed as Browning Medalist.

I repeat, there is nothing wrong at all with the Medalist.

I know someone who owned one of those Yangsson Ping Pong whatever 4x4's some years ago, which in fact had a very good Mercedes power plant in it, but it did nothing for the resale value of the vehicle. The Ford Ka and the Fiat 500 share the same chassis but there the similarity ends.

The Medalist shares absolutely nothing with Browning shotguns.

[cromwell7]

A Browning medalist is not a browning it was only sold a such in the UK the FIAS is a good gun (especially in 20 bore) for the money, I see lots of options and choice one for my wife to learn with and have 3 family members that still use them.

 

Browning 325/425/525 are not Brownings IMHO they are Mirukos.

 

Browning A1 or B25 they are Brownings.

 

Just my view there are a lot of things not what they seem now a days like Italian boots made in Eastern Europe etc the Americans tend to be better at this than European companies.

Who came up with the browning trap door style action first was it Miroku or browning ? If it was browning shouldn't we see all miroku's as Brownings?

[Twistedsanity]

Oh well that's settled then, I guess as owners we can all start a class action against the manufacturer for calling a non browning a browning medalist and retire early, I'm sure it's fraud

[Gordon R]

I don't believe that the manufacturer ever called the Medalist a "Browning" - just the UK Importer.

[Westward]

Shotguns are no different from any other machine in that you get what you pay for. FAIR and FIAS are absolutely typical examples of the Italian "Brescia" style gun and for the money they're mostly okay, but the Miroku built Brownings and 68X Berettas are in a different league.

 

For people shooting 2 or 3 thousand shells per year a Medallist (or similar) will probably hold up up for 10 years or more if kept clean and lubed, but you don't see anyone using them for serious clay shooting. There were people who arrrived to shoot the 120 bird comp at Westfield today after shooting 100 birds at Crazy Bear or Widdington and who then had half a dozen goes at the 25 bird pool shoot. Tomorrow they'll go to Longridge and do much the same again and in a few days shoot the British Open. These are people who typically shoot 25-30 thousand clays every year and expect to get at least 10 years out of a gun. None or them, not one, uses a low cost Italian or Turkish built gun, but whilst there are a lot of Krieghoffs, Perazzis, Blasers and Guerinis, many also use Mirokus, Beretta 68X family guns or Grade 1 Brownings. This isn't about snobbery it's common sense. If your annual spend on clay shooting is £5K+ on shells, £3K+ on entry fees and £500+ on fuel then a £10K Perazzi is a pretty minor expense given that it will still have value sfter 10 hard years.

 

It's horses for courses. Guns such as the Medallist and similar are built by Sabatti or another 'Brescia' maker and cost aound £600 new. They're based on a platform intended for Italian hunters to take out a few times a year and bang off a couple of boxes of shells. The typical Mirokus and Berettas on the other hand are built to be almost everlasting because they can be rebuilt and tightened up over and over again.

 

There aren't really any shotgun bargains to be had when buying through normal channels and whilst a used Browning 525 might cost twice as much as a used Medallist, it will retain value much better should the owner wish to upgrade later.

[STOTTO]

‘Enterprised Commercialism’, and of course, ‘Commercial Enterprise’ still alive and well all around us, now devolved in every aspect of our lives!

http://www.metrolyrics.com/smoke-and-mirrors-lyrics-gotye.html#/startvideo

[Scully]

Shotguns are no different from any other machine in that you get what you pay for. FAIR and FIAS are absolutely typical examples of the Italian "Brescia" style gun and for the money they're mostly okay, but the Miroku built Brownings and 68X Berettas are in a different league.

 

For people shooting 2 or 3 thousand shells per year a Medallist (or similar) will probably hold up up for 10 years or more if kept clean and lubed, but you don't see anyone using them for serious clay shooting. There were people who arrrived to shoot the 120 bird comp at Westfield today after shooting 100 birds at Crazy Bear or Widdington and who then had half a dozen goes at the 25 bird pool shoot. Tomorrow they'll go to Longridge and do much the same again and in a few days shoot the British Open. These are people who typically shoot 25-30 thousand clays every year and expect to get at least 10 years out of a gun. None or them, not one, uses a low cost Italian or Turkish built gun, but whilst there are a lot of Krieghoffs, Perazzis, Blasers and Guerinis, many also use Mirokus, Beretta 68X family guns or Grade 1 Brownings. This isn't about snobbery it's common sense. If your annual spend on clay shooting is £5K+ on shells, £3K+ on entry fees and £500+ on fuel then a £10K Perazzi is a pretty minor expense given that it will still have value sfter 10 hard years.

 

It's horses for courses. Guns such as the Medallist and similar are built by Sabatti or another 'Brescia' maker and cost aound £600 new. They're based on a platform intended for Italian hunters to take out a few times a year and bang off a couple of boxes of shells. The typical Mirokus and Berettas on the other hand are built to be almost everlasting because they can be rebuilt and tightened up over and over again.

 

There aren't really any shotgun bargains to be had when buying through normal channels and whilst a used Browning 525 might cost twice as much as a used Medallist, it will retain value much better should the owner wish to upgrade later.

Good post.

[bruno22rf]

I struggled to get £850 for my 2 year old 525 in almost unused condition-on the other hand my FIAS (medallist) cost me £100 and a new cocking dog (£15) and would sell for £250 all day long

[delburt0]

I love mine, if there's a big hoo har about it's not a browning why does it say browning on my ticket ...

[Westward]

I struggled to get £850 for my 2 year old 525 in almost unused condition-on the other hand my FIAS (medallist) cost me £100 and a new cocking dog (£15) and would sell for £250 all day long

There's always the occasional private deal but I was referring to buying used guns through normal channels by which I meant dealers. A good used 525 will always be more desirable, more saleable, easier to trade and therefore retain more percentage value than a good used Medallist. That's not having a pop at Medallists or similar and it's not snobbery, it's just the way it is. I've had a couple of low cost italian guns including a FIAS and had no complaints except they proved to be costly when I wanted to upgrade. OTOH I've traded in a Miroku and 2 Berettas since then and lost very little money on them.

[bruno22rf]

The new price for a Medalist was somewhere in the £750 region depending on any deals going at the time-good examples are still fetching £500 so, in theory, you might have enjoyed many years shooting for very little money

[jason kaye]

I love mine, if there's a big hoo har about it's not a browning why does it say browning on my ticket ...

Because the person you bought it from Craig entered it on your SGC when you bought it

[STOTTO]

“You can’t make a silk purse”!

[hoggysreels]

Does the Browning website have or did have at some point, the Medallist advertised. If so, was it advertised as the Medallist or Browning Medallist.