malkiserow Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Found a sloe forum and site...... WWW.Sloe.biz worth a look I've been trying to get my head around the "don't pick them until the first frost" old wives tale. I can only think it is to get more flavour out of the sloes by beginning the breakdown of the cell structure in the fruit. If this is correct then using the freezer to do this will work very well indeed. it might be even better to freeze them, and thaw them before re-freezing them for a few cycles. Any thoughts from the PW sloe massive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillfrbs Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 was only looking at loads of sloves this morning ,seems a bit early .all nice and ripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I use dried sloes from a home made wine supplier,develops quicker,but I always was in impatient ******,saves waiting a year, do some now & drink on boxing day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I've a batch in the freezer now, will thaw and refreeze 3 times to break down the cells and let the flavour out. I never thought of dried sloes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy135 Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Found a sloe forum and site...... WWW.Sloe.biz worth a look I've been trying to get my head around the "don't pick them until the first frost" old wives tale. I can only think it is to get more flavour out of the sloes by beginning the breakdown of the cell structure in the fruit. If this is correct then using the freezer to do this will work very well indeed. it might be even better to freeze them, and thaw them before re-freezing them for a few cycles. Any thoughts from the PW sloe massive ? Could also be that the longer the sloes are on the tree the more natural sugars they accumulate, so the better the end product. Try picking some early sloes and freeze them, then compare with some late picked sloes after first frost & do a taste test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The big problem with waiting for a frost it might not happen here in Cornwall until January and by then they would all be gone. I usually freeze mine but only the once, might try a few times and see if there is any differance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 The big problem with waiting for a frost it might not happen here in Cornwall until January and by then they would all be gone. I usually freeze mine but only the once, might try a few times and see if there is any differance. Seems many wine makers do this multi freeze and defrost to get the flavour out in a variety of different fruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBlox Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) I've a batch in the freezer now, will thaw and refreeze 3 times to break down the cells and let the flavour out. I never thought of dried sloes. The freeze/thaw cycles (mostly the re-freeze bit) also dehydrate the fruit making the flavour more intense (remember them dried-out chips/peas you find when defrosting the freezer). Best not done in a sealed bag. My sloe gin's good, the mulled cider (steeping the previous years gin sloes) is better, but I've been told sherry in by far the best "sloed" drink. I've got a lot of sloes last year in gin and I want to try the sherry. Anuyone one on here tried it - what's the best sherry to use cream, medium, dry? My gut feeling is a medium dry (to balance the sugar from the gin). Edited September 11, 2015 by DrBlox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 There was a thread on here a while ago about smoked sloe gin so I'll be doing both types pretty soon to see the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insy Posted September 11, 2015 Report Share Posted September 11, 2015 I've just done my first evening picking sloes, only managed 3.7kg of sloes will pick some more tomorrow. Thansk for the tip on thaw/refreeze might give that a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 The wife and myself pick 7lb of sloes last Sunday cleaned them froze the in individual 1lb bags.put 2.5lb in jar with sugar and gin on Tuesday the colour is fantastic this morning looking at it know very dark reddish colour.will leave it till boxing day before trying tryed some damson gin the other night witch we did last year it is fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBlox Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) ...Thansk for the tip on thaw/refreeze might give that a try. I had a brain wave last night in bed and I think I'll pick some early ones (for me normally pick in October) today. I'll put them in my freezer's ice cube tray drawers (other descriptions are available) to freeze dry there (for a month). Why? Well I think I'll have a go at making this. I've got around 1/2 a litre of Lidl's (only the finest in the DrBlox household) Pastis and I'm worried about adding too much water to it and making it go cloudy. EDIT: I think I've got enough "ginned sloes" to have a go at two 1/2 litres of the sherry: a dry sherry and a cream. Edited September 13, 2015 by DrBlox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBlox Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) I had a brain wave last night in bed and I think I'll pick some early ones (for me normally pick in October) today. I'll put them in my freezer's ice cube tray drawers (other descriptions are available) to freeze dry there (for a month). Why? Well I think I'll have a go at making this. I've got around 1/2 a litre of Lidl's (only the finest in the DrBlox household) Pastis and I'm worried about adding too much water to it and making it go cloudy... One of my favourite picking sites is a dell next to a pumping station. It's sheltered and receives "nourishment" from the leaks and overflows of the station - so nice big juicy sloes. I picked 403g of sloes (enough for the single bottle of Patxaran) and placed them in a single layer on Tupperware box lids (to aid moving them) in the ice cube drawer of my freezer (it's at the top) operating at -7oC. Sloes were pricked with a wooden skewer before freezing. The freezer door is opened at least once a day causing an air change that should cause dehydration. I recorded the mass of the sloes (removing them and weighing them) before returning them to the freezer. Here are the results over a fortnight showing the raw data (upper) and the calculated mass loss (lower): So after a fortnight I've managed a 5% mass loss - is it worth it? Edited September 28, 2015 by DrBlox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I don't think the mass loss makes any appreciable difference. After all, the gin is 60% water anyway. It's more to do with pre-bletting the sloes. If you don't freeze/defrost, then you've got to spend hours pricking the sloes with a cocktail stick (wonder what the rude word filter will make of THAT sentence!). Freezing and defrosting a couple of times breaks down the structure of the skin and of the internal cells, so greatly speeds up the flavour distribution into the gin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 One of my favourite picking sites is a dell next to a pumping station. It's sheltered and receives "nourishment" from the leaks and overflows of the station - so nice big juicy sloes. I picked 403g of sloes (enough for the single bottle of Patxaran) and placed them in a single layer on Tupperware box lids (to aid moving them) in the ice cube drawer of my freezer (it's at the top) operating at -7oC. Sloes were pricked with a wooden skewer before freezing. The freezer door is opened at least once a day causing an air change that should cause dehydration. I recorded the mass of the sloes (removing them and weighing them) before returning them to the freezer. Here are the results over a fortnight showing the raw data (upper) and the calculated mass loss (lower): <script pagespeed_no_defer="">//=d.offsetWidth&&0>=d.offsetHeight)a=!1;else{c=d.getBoundingClientRect();var f=document.body;a=c.top+("pageYOffset"in window?window.pageYOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollTop);c=c.left+("pageXOffset"in window?window.pageXOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollLeft);f=a.toString()+","+c;b.b.hasOwnProperty(f)?a=!1:(b.b[f]=!0,a=a<=b.e.height&&c<=b.e.width)}a&&(b.a.push(e),b.d[e]=!0)};p.prototype.checkImageForCriticality=function(b){b.getBoundingClientRect&&q(this,b)};h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkImageForCriticality",function(b){n.checkImageForCriticality(b)});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkCriticalImages",function(){r(n)});var r=function(b){b.b={};for(var d=["IMG","INPUT"],a=[],c=0;c=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e)}b.g&&(e="&rd="+encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify(s())),131072>=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e),d=!0);t=a;if(d){c=b.f;b=b.h;var f;if(window.XMLHttpRequest)f=new XMLHttpRequest;else if(window.ActiveXObject)try{f=new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP")}catch(k){try{f=new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP")}catch(u){}}f&&(f.open("POST",c+(-1==c.indexOf("?")?"?":"&")+"url="+encodeURIComponent(b)),f.setRequestHeader("Content-Type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"),f.send(a))}}},s=function(){var b={},d=document.getElementsByTagName("IMG");if(0==d.length)return{};var a=d[0];if(!("naturalWidth"in a&&"naturalHeight"in a))return{};for(var c=0;a=d[c];++c){var e=a.getAttribute("pagespeed_url_hash");e&&(!(e in b)&&0=b[e].k&&a.height>=b[e].j)&&(b[e]={rw:a.width,rh:a.height,ow:a.naturalWidth,oh:a.naturalHeight})}return b},t="";h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.getBeaconData",function(){return t});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run",function(b,d,a,c,e,f){var k=new p(b,d,a,e,f);n=k;c&&m(function(){window.setTimeout(function(){r(k)},0)})});})();pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run('/mod_pagespeed_beacon','http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?s=cd139812ff2ee71c1c5f6d5032fb41ba&app=forums&module=ajax§ion=topics&do=mqquote&t=319760,l8PuqRhht8,true,false,A2yNPJzW8WQ');//]]></script> &&0 So after a fortnight I've managed a 5% mass loss - is it worth it? I don't think the mass loss makes any appreciable difference. After all, the gin is 60% water anyway. It's more to do with pre-bletting the sloes. If you don't freeze/defrost, then you've got to spend hours pricking the sloes with a cocktail stick (wonder what the rude word filter will make of THAT sentence!). Freezing and defrosting a couple of times breaks down the structure of the skin and of the internal cells, so greatly speeds up the flavour distribution into the gin. This is interesting, mushrooms are often dried to intensify the flavour not just for preserving them. Once re-hydrated, they are far stronger flavour in the new liquor than originally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBlox Posted September 28, 2015 Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 This is interesting, mushrooms are often dried to intensify the flavour not just for preserving them. Once re-hydrated, they are far stronger flavour in the new liquor than originally I thought the mass/water loss would be greater. Do I: Keep the experiment going for another fortnight? Try a thaw/freeze cycle? Suggestions are most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted September 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2015 I thought the mass/water loss would be greater. Do I: Keep the experiment going for another fortnight? Try a thaw/freeze cycle? Suggestions are most welcome. Perhaps split the batch in two and continue your current regime with the first half. The second half could be thawed/refrozen 3 times and then revert to your original regime to see if the "burst" cells aid dehydration. just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 I use 'Captain Harriman's' recipe and cook in the oven first, though I stop a little short of the mush - I just wait till the skins split and they are soft. I suspect this does the same job as a few freeze-thaw cycles? http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/recipes/sloe-gin-captain-harrimans-accelerated-sloe-gin-5092 Used this recipe for a few years and very happy with it. In fact, I picked a few pounds yesterday and my kilner jars and looking super this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBlox Posted September 29, 2015 Report Share Posted September 29, 2015 Perhaps split the batch in two and continue your current regime with the first half. The second half could be thawed/refrozen 3 times and then revert to your original regime to see if the "burst" cells aid dehydration. just a thought.... Done today: sloe sample split into 2, one half defrosted/thawed 10h then re-frozen. First data tomorrow (if I remember/have time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBlox Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) Long post warning. Following on from the suggestion of malkiserow is split the original sloe sample into two halves. One half (const) was left on lids in the ice cube tray of my freezer at a constant -7ºC. The other half (thw/fr) was subjected to thaw (10 hours at 19ºC) freeze (returned to -7ºC) cycles on 29th Sept, 6th Oct and 12th Oct (Day 0, Day 7 and Day 13 of the experiment). Here are the raw data: The effect of the thaw-refreeze cycles on days 0, 7 and 13 becomes apparent when we look at the percentage mass loss (Δm) with the number of days (Δt): The first thaw-refreeze cycle (analogous to the fruit on the tree having experienced a frost) on day 0 causes around 4% mass loss, in fact the fruit left frozen at a constant temperature only looses this much mass (which has to be water) only after around 12 days - thus, the effect of a “frost” on water loss from the fruit is considerable. It should be noted that the second thaw-refreeze cycle on day 7 resulted in “only” a 2% loss and the final thaw-refreeze cycle led to a 1% loss ie repeated “frosts” result in less water loss. As the sloes used in this experiment was the same sample used in the previous experiment (just leaving them in the freezer and recording the mass loss) it is possible to combine the both data sets assuming that half the original sloe sample losses water (mass) at the same rate as the original sample. Also, as I never recorded the mass loss of the samples before I began the “frost experiment” I've estimated them from the previous three measurements (assuming a linear trend): “Back of a fag packet” calculations suggest: 1) Just leaving pierced sloes in a freezer results in about a 5% water loss a fortnight. 2) Approximately the same amount of water loss can be obtained by thawing and refreezing previously frozen sloes. “Big deal, so what?” I hear you say. Well I'm using these “frosted” sloes attempting to make some Paxtaran. Now the recipe I've worked out requires 189g of fresh sloes, so I'm using 189g of my “frosted” sloes which, in theory contain 17% less water or, to put it another way, 32g more sloe flavour. We use the sloes to enhance the base spirit, shouldn't we be attempting to flavour it as much as possible? NB. I use pieced sloes. Why? Well two years ago, when the sloe harvest was very poor (here) I only managed to find enough to make, one Sunday morning, a single 2l Dewar of sloe gin (about 1.5l of liquid). I went to pick up my son from rugby and saw that in the club car park were a couple of blackthorn trees that were, miracle upon miracle, groaning under the weight of sloes. I hastily picked as many as I could, didn't have the time (or patience) to skewer them bunged them straight into the freezer. I had enough to make two further jars and give the rest to family. The following week I suddenly discovered that I didn't have time to defrost them and ***** them before making gin so just used them as they were. Fast forward three months I looked again at the jars to find one a lovely deep red colour and two which had the hues of the seepage from under-cooked chicken (a very pale pink). I told a biologist colleague about this and she told me that the skin (pericarp) of soft fruit is very porous to small molecules such as water (and alcohol) but it's tough enough to stop larger flavour molecules and sugars diffusing out – hence why sultanas, raisins, prunes etc. taste of something. I had the very dull and messy task of separating the sloes from the gin, pricking them and replacing them in the same liquor. I also discovered that it's possible to get drunk by absorbing gin through your hands. Edited October 17, 2015 by DrBlox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Dr Blox, you have done us proud. Thank you. The data does indeed indicate the benefits of freezing and thawing. Flavour rules!! Interestingly, I also tried to use the Harriman Method to very good effect as the "breakdown" is all done in 20 minutes at 80 Degrees C. I tried it with Damsons and orange peel and used the same Damsons (same tree) and orange using the freeze thaw method. My taste conclusion is there is very little difference after 3 weeks or so. I had put a tad too much sugar in one batch and a tad too little in the other so they are now blended and very fine drinking after just 3 or 4 weeks. I've yet to try my Slow Gin but that was 3x freeze thaw and without orange peel. Another benefit of the Harriman method with damsons is that the kids can eat the waste damsons as they are cooked and very tasty and they love spitting out the nut. Similar "waste" post gin making is obviously suitable for adults!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Dr Blox, you have done us proud. Thank you. The data does indeed indicate the benefits of freezing and thawing. Flavour rules!! Interestingly, I also tried to use the Harriman Method to very good effect as the "breakdown" is all done in 20 minutes at 80 Degrees C. I tried it with Damsons and orange peel and used the same Damsons (same tree) and orange using the freeze thaw method. My taste conclusion is there is very little difference after 3 weeks or so. I had put a tad too much sugar in one batch and a tad too little in the other so they are now blended and very fine drinking after just 3 or 4 weeks. I've yet to try my Slow Gin but that was 3x freeze thaw and without orange peel. Another benefit of the Harriman method with damsons is that the kids can eat the waste damsons as they are cooked and very tasty and they love spitting out the nut. Similar "waste" post gin making is obviously suitable for adults!! Made into Ice cream with a sloe gin pouring sauce - - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I've yet to try my Slow Gin but that was 3x freeze thaw and without orange peel. +1, mine has some orange peel, but no sugar yet. i'm going to add the sugar, to my taste, just before drinking. Was thinking of maybe brown sugar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 One of my favourite picking sites is a dell next to a pumping station. It's sheltered and receives "nourishment" from the leaks and overflows of the station - so nice big juicy sloes. I picked 403g of sloes (enough for the single bottle of Patxaran) and placed them in a single layer on Tupperware box lids (to aid moving them) in the ice cube drawer of my freezer (it's at the top) operating at -7oC. Sloes were pricked with a wooden skewer before freezing. The freezer door is opened at least once a day causing an air change that should cause dehydration. I recorded the mass of the sloes (removing them and weighing them) before returning them to the freezer. Here are the results over a fortnight showing the raw data (upper) and the calculated mass loss (lower): <script pagespeed_no_defer="">//=d.offsetWidth&&0>=d.offsetHeight)a=!1;else{c=d.getBoundingClientRect();var f=document.body;a=c.top+("pageYOffset"in window?window.pageYOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollTop);c=c.left+("pageXOffset"in window?window.pageXOffset:(document.documentElement||f.parentNode||f).scrollLeft);f=a.toString()+","+c;b.b.hasOwnProperty(f)?a=!1:(b.b[f]=!0,a=a<=b.e.height&&c<=b.e.width)}a&&(b.a.push(e),b.d[e]=!0)};p.prototype.checkImageForCriticality=function(b){b.getBoundingClientRect&&q(this,b)};h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkImageForCriticality",function(b){n.checkImageForCriticality(b)});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.checkCriticalImages",function(){r(n)});var r=function(b){b.b={};for(var d=["IMG","INPUT"],a=[],c=0;c=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e)}b.g&&(e="&rd="+encodeURIComponent(JSON.stringify(s())),131072>=a.length+e.length&&(a+=e),d=!0);t=a;if(d){c=b.f;b=b.h;var f;if(window.XMLHttpRequest)f=new XMLHttpRequest;else if(window.ActiveXObject)try{f=new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP")}catch(k){try{f=new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP")}catch(u){}}f&&(f.open("POST",c+(-1==c.indexOf("?")?"?":"&")+"url="+encodeURIComponent(b)),f.setRequestHeader("Content-Type","application/x-www-form-urlencoded"),f.send(a))}}},s=function(){var b={},d=document.getElementsByTagName("IMG");if(0==d.length)return{};var a=d[0];if(!("naturalWidth"in a&&"naturalHeight"in a))return{};for(var c=0;a=d[c];++c){var e=a.getAttribute("pagespeed_url_hash");e&&(!(e in b)&&0=b[e].k&&a.height>=b[e].j)&&(b[e]={rw:a.width,rh:a.height,ow:a.naturalWidth,oh:a.naturalHeight})}return b},t="";h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.getBeaconData",function(){return t});h("pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run",function(b,d,a,c,e,f){var k=new p(b,d,a,e,f);n=k;c&&m(function(){window.setTimeout(function(){r(k)},0)})});})();pagespeed.CriticalImages.Run('/mod_pagespeed_beacon','http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?s=3cee2a76cb41d100eb4769b4a929b1de&app=forums&module=ajax§ion=topics&do=quote&t=319760&p=2912465&md5check=826e9b4b0f5a01f77361973688709b3e&isRte=1,l8PuqRhht8,true,false,h7iika_LFJE');//]]></script> &&0 So after a fortnight I've managed a 5% mass loss - is it worth it? NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 +1, mine has some orange peel, but no sugar yet. i'm going to add the sugar, to my taste, just before drinking. Was thinking of maybe brown sugar? Caster sugar seems to be the most common but not tried alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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