Jeremy Corbyn

[krugerandsmith]

keg.

Sorry but ..... Dave making a pig of himself beats all.

 

Folks what if Corbyn is right and WE are all wrong. Are we prepared to send our Sons and Daughters to fight a possible war? If we are then can I suggest that Dave and his cabinet leads the charge.

[Vince Green]

keg.

Sorry but ..... Dave making a pig of himself beats all.

 

Folks what if Corbyn is right and WE are all wrong. Are we prepared to send our Sons and Daughters to fight a possible war? If we are then can I suggest that Dave and his cabinet leads the charge.

Its not a case of whether Corbyn is right or not. In political terms Corbyn is the kid who sits at the back of the class making negative comments. That apparantly is all he has ever done, he is not engaging in the debate by being negative he is effectively abstaining. Politics should be about an exchange of views, thats not what he is able to do, he has never had to.

 

You will not hear him tell us what he thinks we should do, he doesn't know.

[achosenman]

I don't get it. We are striking ISIS atm. They are a bloodthirsty murderous terrorist organisation, not a sovereign government. They siezed the area's under their control. Just as you deal with any infestation of vermin, you must deal with the nest to eradicate the problem.

 

As has been pointed out many times Corbyn is only capable of saying no. He has no idea's of his own. He and his like believe that negotiation is possible. I wonder if the penny will ever drop with these people. ISIS don't want to talk, they want to kill us or subjugate us and impose their medieval value system on us all. If it's all the same, no thank you.

 

Atm, ISIS have a safe haven to conduct business. They murder, plan and train for future attacks. It's sheer lunacy to allow them to have this facility.

 

Atb

[rodp]

No, Corbyn will never get it as he's happy to live in amongst the rabble, and because of his views they accept him.. It doesn't affect him, his job's safe and can't be undercut, he's probably got private medical insurance and he'll be relatively well paid and claim expenses. How can it affect him apart from living in a multicultural environment (and that won't be a slum)?

[krugerandsmith]

achoseman.

Agreed but we as experienced hunters know and have learned how to identify our quarry ..... How do we identify isis. The cowards don't wear uniforms don't respect and follow the rules of law as our troops are forced too.

[scotslad]

Why is it such a big deal for us to bomb them in Syria??

 

Can we not up our campign in Iraq so that all the other counties can free up there planes to concentrate all their efforts on Syria?

 

While i realise it is a big deal politically, realistically dunno wot real difference it will make as didn't think there wast that many RAF planes over there anyway

[fortune]

Why is it such a big deal for us to bomb them in Syria??

 

Can we not up our campign in Iraq so that all the other counties can free up there planes to concentrate all their efforts on Syria?

 

While i realise it is a big deal politically, realistically dunno wot real difference it will make as didn't think there wast that many RAF planes over there anyway

I have thought this also. I can't see what good it is going to bomb piles of rubble into finer piles. We have been fighting in Iraq,Libya and Afghanistan for about fourteen years and In a lot of ways we have caused more problems than we realised such as the flooding of weapons into the Sahara area from Libya to radical groups such as boko haram that killed more people than issis last year and yet Dave isn't standing up in parliament and demanding that we go and bomb them. Every time this sort of thing crops up the government of the day seems hell bent on taking us to war for no good reason. How is it in Iraq and Afghanistan after all of the money and lives lost out there. Even now with the migrant crisis we are cutting front line border controls and letting the ones that do get here just wander off into the country rather than putting them on the next boat back to where they came from because it costs too much to house them in jail until they've gone through the courts. Although there are lots of things that I can't agree with Jeremy cobin about I think that he probably is right on this one. I would selectively target Issis in Iraq and help the friendly forces there to push issis back and strangle off their funds from there such as the oil fields and the agricultural areas. Push them back onto the piles of rubble in Syria. It is such a mess out there that we aren't going to do any good at all.

Edited November 30, 2015 by fortune

[achosenman]

achoseman.

Agreed but we as experienced hunters know and have learned how to identify our quarry ..... How do we identify isis. The cowards don't wear uniforms don't respect and follow the rules of law as our troops are forced too.

 

I spent several years of my life fighting an adversary that didn't wear uniform. We knew who, when, where and what. The ops room wall was covered in mug shots of the "players" We might not have been able to prove it to an armchair lawyer's satisfaction, but nothing is that good in real life. In ISIS controlled territory, only ISIS fighters have weapons. That's kind of a big giveaway. These days the Predators' are a game changer.

 

ISIS were armed by the US and turned loose. Big mistake, but easy to pontificate about in hindsight. Now we need to eradicate this festering disease before it gets out of control.

 

I've been doing some research on tinterweb. It is truly shocking what is happening out there, and I say this having seen first hand, the results of armed conflict. IMO ISIS and their supporters deserve to be eradicated to the last man/woman. They are not civilised in any sense of the term, and summary justice is well deserved. It's not an ideal solution, but that's the only one that's feasible without putting troops in harms way.

 

Atb

Edited November 30, 2015 by achosenman

[Vince Green]

They ought to be going for the money stream. Turkey is buying oil off them. Tick that box before talking about bombing.

[achosenman]

I have thought this also. I can't see what good it is going to bomb piles of rubble into finer piles. We have been fighting in Iraq,Libya and Afghanistan for about fourteen years and In a lot of ways we have caused more problems than we realised such as the flooding of weapons into the Sahara area from Libya to radical groups such as boko haram that killed more people than issis last year and yet Dave isn't standing up in parliament and demanding that we go and bomb them. Every time this sort of thing crops up the government of the day seems hell bent on taking us to war for no good reason. How is it in Iraq and Afghanistan after all of the money and lives lost out there. Even now with the migrant crisis we are cutting front line border controls and letting the ones that do get here just wander off into the country rather than putting them on the next boat back to where they came from because it costs too much to house them in jail until they've gone through the courts. Although there are lots of things that I can't agree with Jeremy cobin about I think that he probably is right on this one. I would selectively target Issis in Iraq and help the friendly forces there to push issis back and strangle off their funds from there such as the oil fields and the agricultural areas. Push them back onto the piles of rubble in Syria. It is such a mess out there that we aren't going to do any good at all.

 

We would not be bombing piles of rubble. Civvies have no conception of the capabilities the military have. Vietnam style bombing is done and dusted. With modern targeting systems and guided munitions you can put a weapon through the door of the target if you desire.

 

ISIS have access to oil because they control territory. Remove that control and a huge funding source disappears overnight. Targeting their vehicles disrupts their command and control. Destroying their training facilities degrades their effectiveness as a force. It also keeps us in the UK safer. Killing the field commanders and leaders reduces ISIS to nothing more than armed gangs with no ability to strike us in the UK. The reason they are sending terrorists to the UK is because we have given them safe haven to regroup and train in Syria. This must stop.

 

Atb

[subsonicnat]

The response on this is very similar to when the weak need Chamberlin came running back from Germany

Prior to the second World War..

Anyone who thinks he was right in trying to pacify Hitler, and hence similar stand on this issue is also wrong.. If Corbyn thinks it will all go away while he sticks his head in the sand, He is very wrong.. When people use guns and miltaria to impose their will on the World, There is only one response,The whole of the united Nations for a change has come to an agreement..

If you wait till you have to bomb your OWN TOWNS to stop these gangs of armed thugs from spreading all over the world, if thats what it takes to bomb them to finer rubble,So Be it..

Lessons from the second world war should be noted, Not ignored. At Your Peril be it..

[Vince Green]

In the case of Corbyn, its not the issue of bombing Syria that should be under the spotlight. He disagrees with it, OK thats a perfectly legit point of view. What is causing concern is that he is not showing leadership. He should be standing up and saying what he thinks would be better, and why he thinks his view has more merit. Thats his job. He should be giving interviews and putting himself about.

 

Instead the man is frozen like a rabbit in the headlight, he seems to have lost the power of speech, resorting to writing letters to his MPs. Any party leader who cannot stand up and say what he thinks when asked is no party leader. Would Nigel Farage be stuck for words? Instead Corbyn is hiding from public view, tongue tied and useless.

 

In reality he has probably always been this useless but he has never been under this level of scrutiny

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I thought it was notable that when he was a backbencher he voted against the party line all the time.

 

Now he is the elected leader he is attempting to force his will upon his party's MPs.

 

Keep it up JC, the Labour Party will shrink gradually until it is a shadow of it's former self.

[subsonicnat]

In the case of Corbyn, its not the issue of bombing Syria that should be under the spotlight. He disagrees with it, OK thats a perfectly legit point of view. What is causing concern is that he is not showing leadership. He should be standing up and saying what he thinks would be better, and why he thinks his view has more merit. Thats his job. He should be giving interviews and putting himself about.

 

Instead the man is frozen like a rabbit in the headlight, he seems to have lost the power of speech, resorting to writing letters to his MPs. Any party leader who cannot stand up and say what he thinks when asked is no party leader. Would Nigel Farage be stuck for words? Instead Corbyn is hiding from public view, tongue tied and useless.

 

In reality he has probably always been this useless but he has never been under this level of scrutiny

 

Agree Totaly.

[hedge]

It's already been said in several ways with some alarming clarity but JC's not fit for purpose.

 

He's an idealist - sitting on the back benches disagreeing with most policies by both parties. Easy to do when you don't need to actually come up with solutions or lead the party.

 

In my world of work, those sort of naysayers (or `negative influences`) get told "bring me solutions, not problems". Don't moan about what we do unless you have a sensible alternative.

 

JC appealed to many as a bit of a back bench new age hippie who was more open and `honest` than his predecessors. After all, Miiliband wasn't a difficult act to follow.

 

That short term gloss has worn off as he's really struggled under scrutiny to come up with any sensible solutions - "rabbit in headlights" is a good phrase. He is now exposed to so much more `behind the scenes` high level politics that he's having constant conflict of interests and views with his own principles. He's finding out the hard way that the smoke and mirrors in Whitehall carry far more weight than his idealistic views. Very naive I think.

 

Politics is partly a personality contest mixed with public credibility. JC is struggling on both fronts.

 

It's a shame - as has been said - his intentions were laudable but ultimately I can't help but think that he is way out of his depth.

 

Leadership contest anyone?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Leadership contest anyone?

 

 

In about two months, let the PLP get Christmas out of the way and get back to Westminster after their over-long recess!!!!

[Vince Green]

 

 

In about two months, let the PLP get Christmas out of the way and get back to Westminster after their over-long recess!!!!

I'm not so sure, I reckon they will need to line up who ever takes over very carefully for the timing of the next election. Lets face it they are thin on candidates and even thinner on policies, anyone new has to still look like a new broom. They can't have him or her going stale like Milliband did.

 

I don't think anybody but a fool would put themselves forward at this stage in the game.

 

IMO their only hope would be Hilary Benn, the other three candidates in the last contest were all no hopers.

[Penelope]

The return of Milliband the Elder?

 

I'm not so sure, I reckon they will need to line up who ever takes over very carefully for the timing of the next election. Lets face it they are thin on candidates and even thinner on policies, anyone new has to still look like a new broom. They can't have him or her going stale like Milliband did.

 

I don't think anybody but a fool would put themselves forward at this stage in the game.

 

IMO their only hope would be Hilary Benn, the other three candidates in the last contest were all no hopers.

[fortune]

We have been fighting in Iraq,Libya and Afghanistan for about fourteen years and In a lot of ways we have caused more problems than we realised such as the flooding of weapons into the Sahara area from Libya to radical groups such as boko haram that killed more people than issis last year and yet Dave isn't standing up in parliament and demanding that we go and bomb them. Every time this sort of thing crops up the government of the day seems hell bent on taking us to war for no good reason. How is it in Iraq and Afghanistan after all of the money and lives lost out there. Even now with the migrant crisis we are cutting front line border controls and letting the ones that do get here just wander off into the country rather than putting them on the next boat back to where they came from because it costs too much to house them in jail until they've gone through the courts.

 

I would selectively target Issis in Iraq and help the friendly forces there to push issis back and strangle off their funds from there such as the oil fields and the agricultural areas. Push them back onto the piles of rubble in Syria.

 

We would not be bombing piles of rubble. Isn't this exactly what the Russian, The americans, The French and a whole gagle of other nations are doing. It hasn't made a jots worth of difference no more than Hitler bombing us or us bombing the **** out of Berlin did.

 

Civvies have no conception of the capabilities the military have. With modern targeting systems and guided munitions you can put a weapon through the door of the target if you desire. It would be more productive to use our high precision weapons to take out their infrastructure in Iraq.

 

ISIS have access to oil because they control territory. Remove that control and a huge funding source disappears overnight. Targeting their vehicles disrupts their command and control. Destroying their training facilities degrades their effectiveness as a force. It also keeps us in the UK safer. Killing the field commanders and leaders reduces ISIS to nothing more than armed gangs with no ability to strike us in the UK. The reason they are sending terrorists to the UK is because we have given them safe haven to regroup and train in Syria. This must stop. Fully agree but do it in Iraq and strangle them off to a rubble pile in Racka or some other god forsaken hole in Syria. AND put a stop to letting migrants walk into this country and just be let go into the population without any sort of control.

Just like Kenny Everett's Mr Angry character used to say >> " Round em up in a field and bomb th.

[Gordon R]

I agree with Penelope. Milliband to the rescue.

[MrM]

Well at least he has agreed to let Labour MPs have a free vote it would appear!

[achosenman]

 

Just like Kenny Everett's Mr Angry character used to say >> " Round em up in a field and bomb ther.

Now there's an idea we can all get behind.

 

They aren't only in Iraq, we have to hit them wherever they are just like any nest of rats.

 

As to your other points. The Russians are very much behind in the accuracy stakes I'm afraid. Lots of collateral damage plus they are really bombing those against Assad despite what they claim. Unfortunately for ISIS, they went and tweaked the Russia bears nose, and now they are getting hit as well. The French never really did much until the last few weeks. The USA drops ordnance on less than half the missions flown I am told, commendable because the reason is collateral damage avoidance.

 

I know its fashionable to decry our own forces capability in some circles, but we are very good at what we do. We don't have overwhelming numbers and never did, so we compensate by being good. I believe more forces in the effort will give better coverage around the clock in Syria. No let up and reduced cost, what's not to like?

 

 

Atb

[Jega]

He dresses like a tramp who dresses in the dark ,bloody hell fire man don't you have mirrors in your house .

See,he's a bloody tramp .

Edited November 30, 2015 by Jega

[rodp]

 

We would not be bombing piles of rubble. Civvies have no conception of the capabilities the military have. Vietnam style bombing is done and dusted. With modern targeting systems and guided munitions you can put a weapon through the door of the target if you desire.

 

ISIS have access to oil because they control territory. Remove that control and a huge funding source disappears overnight. Targeting their vehicles disrupts their command and control. Destroying their training facilities degrades their effectiveness as a force. It also keeps us in the UK safer. Killing the field commanders and leaders reduces ISIS to nothing more than armed gangs with no ability to strike us in the UK. The reason they are sending terrorists to the UK is because we have given them safe haven to regroup and train in Syria. This must stop.

 

Atb

Bomb the wells and kill two birds with one stone. (A), you stop ISIS's income and (B) when the oil stops we'll see who runs out, thereby identifying without doubt who was buying it. ............ Then bomb the **** out of them

[achosenman]

Bomb the wells and kill two birds with one stone. (A), you stop ISIS's income and (B) when the oil stops we'll see who runs out, thereby identifying without doubt who was buying it. ............ Then bomb the **** out of them

 

I must admit that would have been the first thing I did if I was making the decisions. I can only assume the west naïvely thought sanctions would prevent anyone buying the oil. I'd also blockade the ports to stop any tanker getting close as well.

 

Atb