Zapp Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 In the news this morning - a Turkish F-16 has shot down a Russian SU-24 for an airspace violation after the Russian aircraft apparently ignored warnings to leave. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12013212/Turkey-shoots-down-Russian-military-plane-on-Syria-border.html This isnt going to make any operations we look to undertake over Syria any easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Fall out from this could get messy also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Agreed, I can't see Putin letting this one go. They see Turkey as a backwater so to have one of their aircraft shot down by them will not be viewed well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 keg. If Russia attacks Turkey from behind ...... Do you think Greece would help?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 This isn't good Silly, silly Turks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 This isn't good Silly, silly Turks. Only following instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The russians seem to be claiming it was shot down from the ground over syria , where the turks are saying they shot it down from the air in turkish airspace . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't think this will escalate ridiculously, but there will be behind the scenes implications with a souring or the relationship between Turkey and Russia for a while. If indeed the Russian was shot by a Turkish plane within Turkish airspace then I don't think the Turk's had choice, do you let the big bully aggressor do what he chooses in violation of your rights or do you give him a smack on the nose. If Turkey were to let this pass then what happens next when Russia up the ante? Putin relies on people being in fear of him, it is the very essence of the man. Well done Turkey for not being chicken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't think this will escalate ridiculously, but there will be behind the scenes implications with a souring or the relationship between Turkey and Russia for a while. If indeed the Russian was shot by a Turkish plane within Turkish airspace then I don't think the Turk's had choice, do you let the big bully aggressor do what he chooses in violation of your rights or do you give him a smack on the nose. If Turkey were to let this pass then what happens next when Russia up the ante? Putin relies on people being in fear of him, it is the very essence of the man. Well done Turkey for not being chicken. But even if the Russian plane was marginally over the Turkish border their stated mission is to bomb the Islamist madmen ??!! So surely Turkey should be actively helping them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wascal Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 But even if the Russian plane was marginally over the Turkish border their stated mission is to bomb the Islamist madmen ??!! So surely Turkey should be actively helping them ? Why ! The Russians won't hesitate to shot down a lost aircraft , remember Korean air 007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The Turks hold the Americans and British over a barrel due to their geographic, the Russians have now lost two planes in the same number of weeks....interesting times ahead!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 There may be trouble ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 As far as I can tell, ISIS aren't operating in that area but the Syrian "Turkmen" are being attacked by Assad's forces with what appears to be air support from the Russians. The Turks clearly aren't happy about this. As already said, this incident isn't going to help but can't imagine this will escalate significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 well looks like another place to cross of the holiday destination list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clakk Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The Turkmen have killed the pilots as they parachuted ,Putin,s livid .God knows what he will do in reprisal and they blew up one of the rescue helicopters as well.its going to get nasty real quick out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Now there is a report that a Russian search helicopter has been shot down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 If they have shot down a S&R helicopter then that is very poor form. I expect there is much more to this than is being reported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) So I've just got in and things have escalated. FWIW, my two cents is this. I don't know about anyone else, but getting bombed by the Russians isn't a game of cricket. In the Turkmen's shoes, I'm not sure I would shake the hands of downed aircrew that were only 15 minutes before, attacking me with no thought to the fact that I had no defence against them. Plus it was rather unsporting to use first world airpower in what's nothing to do with them in my struggle against Assad and ISIS. Of course the Russian's are completely innocent. They would never dream of violating anyone's sovereignty by say sending troops across the border as civilian's, or by shooting down commercial air traffic with an anti aircraft missile battery then claim "a big boy did it and ran away" IMHO it's about time someone bloodied Putin's nose. Maybe now he'll realise that just because western democracy is hamstrung by popular opinion, there are some in the West that will stand up to him. I don't see this escalating too much. Putin might shout a bit, but I bet the Russian's respect the border from now on. Atb Edited November 24, 2015 by achosenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 So I've just got in and things have escalated. FWIW, my two cents is this. I don't know about anyone else, but getting bombed by the Russians isn't a game of cricket. In the Turkmen's shoes, I'm not sure I would shake the hands of downed aircrew that were only 15 minutes before, attacking me with no thought to the fact that I had no defence against them. Plus it was rather unsporting to use first world airpower in what's nothing to do with them in my struggle against Assad and ISIS. Of course the Russian's are completely innocent. They would never dream of violating anyone's sovereignty by say sending troops across the boarder as civilian's, or by shooting down commercial air traffic with an anti aircraft missile battery then claim "a big boy did it and ran away" IMHO it's about time someone bloodied Putin's nose. Maybe now he'll realise that just because western democracy is hamstrung by popular opinion, there are some in the West that will stand up to him. I don't see this escalating too much. Putin might shout a bit, but I bet the Russian's respect the boarder from now on. Atb It will go one of two ways now if they have shot the pilots and the S&R helicopter. Russia will either give more respect to borders, ............. or obliterate the guilty parties. Knowing Putin I suspect the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't believe Putin will escalate things. He might go after the Turkmen, but he was doing that anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the forces friendly to certain Western powers, inexplicably developed short range anti air capability...especially if Putin continues to act like the school bully. Atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ah, but you're thinking like a rational person, Putin's a nutter ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 You've got me there ...and you're spot on about Putin. Atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Turkey shot down a Russian fighter inside Syria is what we now know, lets face it militarily they're not in any sort of league to lock horns with Russia so it's a no brainer that the US has put them up to it. Mind you they must have been a little butt hurt at losing so much cheap illicit Isis oil which they've been allowing to filter through. Putin is destroying so called moderates (whatever the hell that means) and Daesh/Isis, the moderates have been filmed eating their foes' hearts raw so you can guess the fate of anyone who disagrees with them if Assad were to be removed. Putin is trying to stop yet another ME country falling into a state of lawlessness by protecting its elected leader. The West on the other hand seems to think calling someone a Dictator is automatic grounds for an all out assault to disassemble that country. Who did you say the bully was again ? Edited November 24, 2015 by Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 What all out assault have the West launched against Syria? There is a civil war on-going true. We target ISIS since not to do so does not make us safe, it merely moves the fight to our streets. ISIS want a Muslim caliphate. They want to rule the world, simple as that. They want to impose their religious medieval bigotry on everyone. They don't want to talk, negotiate or live and let live. We take the fight to them, or they bring it to us. Russia is about supporting a tyrant for it's own agenda. The citizens who live under Assad's rule don't want it anymore. That's their choice, not yours, mine or anyone else's. Atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 seems "the Balkans" or that area, if it is not careful is going the same way as a previous world wide fracas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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