FalconFN Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 We give the EU £55,000,000 per day, per year! We get back £22,000,000 per day, per year! We pay £33,000,000 per day, per year to be in the EU. Or put another way, around 1.8% of tax revenues. The numbers seem large in isolation but when see as a percentage of government spending they aren't so exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 It was a common market, not much wrong with that really. Then they went mad and started to create a Federal Europe off the back of it without concerning us about changing our laws and liberties. Yeah right give us some more? - no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I have to take issue with what you're saying here. The Eu is fairly large, I'll grant you that, but it's incredibly unstable at the moment, and has been for some time. The failing Euro, the problems with Greece, the collapsing Shengen area, the disastrous immigration policy, the rise of Eurosceptic parties across the continent, huge unemployment across the eastern and western areas of the bloc are all indications of the projects demise. Add to that the rapid decline in the Eu's economy, the impending accession of Turkey and you'd have to be either blind or mad to want to be tied to such a behemoth. The EU, like the Soviet Union before it, is now beginning to realise that it's impossible to unite so many peoples with different cultures, aspirations and histories, and like the Soviet Union it will fail. It simply cannot succeed as it is. Spot on. History tells us that unions of different cultures do not last. I remember when Cyprus joined the EU. I told them that they would regret it but everybody was looking forward to a prosperous future and within two years all the old Japanese second hand import cars had been replaced with shiny new German ones. At the same time all the supermarkets started stocking fruit and veg' from all over Europe, wines from France and Italy and all the local producers who had been in business for generations went bankrupt. Hotels and holiday homes became empty as the Euro made holidays there too expensive compared to non-EU countries. Then the credit crunch and property price collapse. Only a numpty would expect Cyprus and Greece to prosper shackled to the Euro, but greed overcomes logic and that is how the EU works. Offering poor countries subsidies in return for them buying French, Spanish and German goods. Now the poo has hit the fan it is all unravelling, and the refugee crisis means that the idea of unrestricted travel through Europe is history. It will never return so all we are left with are economic arguments to frighten voters into accepting that the EU is better for Britain. The cost however is in faceless, non-elected Bureaucrats imposing laws on sovereign governments and that to me is a price too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Or put another way, around 1.8% of tax revenues. The numbers seem large in isolation but when see as a percentage of government spending they aren't so exciting. Exciting enough to pay for quite a few nurses though wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 There will not be any smoking guns or black & white answers for the IN/OUT vote, people will have to make their own decisions based on what is important to them. The campaign will be punctuated by fear and promise in equal measure and both will be based on speculation and hellish little else. The question is really whether we believe the UK will be better placed to enjoy continued prosperity as part of a bigger group or if standing alone. In the case of the EU I do think there are benefits of being part of a wider group, but the biggest drawback of the EU for me is that in order to make it a union then there has to be parity, but we are not all equal, and that means in order for the countries at the bottom to step forward the ones at the top have to step backwards. It is finding the common denominator and for the UK I believe that means sacrifice. Increasingly I believe that if we remain part of the EU then we will degrade our abilities, we become limited in what we can do and achieve because we are constrained by the mass of the rest of the EU. I think we are already showing signs of losing our hunger and drive, we are increasingly happy to settle and not strive forward. The UK has always been innovative and entrepreneurial, we have always contributed to a much greater level than our size might suggest we should. We have massive global influence and I believe the most valuable global 'brand' of any country. The profile of the world is changing, the emerging single economies of India, Brazil, China, Indonesia, etc and the collective economies of Africa and South America have massively greater scope for expansion than the mature economies of Western Europe and North America, that is where the focus of wealth development will be. I believe that the UK with its brand, reputation and influence can be a massive part of that global change and I believe we can do that more effectively independently than having to carry the mass of the EU along with it. The UK has sufficient critical mass to take that step, we are a massive economy in our own right. We are no longer focussed on slow moving, high cost, low agility and localised heavy industry, our expertise is in creative and innovative markets, research and development, financial services, advanced technological development, business excellence, pharmaceuticals, automated agriculture, etc and these are the assets and attributes needed for the emerging economies around the world. I believe that the UK unburdened with EU bureaucracy can be much more agile to take advantage of new global opportunity as well as continuing to do what we do now. ^^^ This ^^^. We're a nation of fighters, go getters, and we're being strangled and manacled by bureaucrats from countries that find it easier to bring us down to their level than strive to come up to ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Or put another way, around 1.8% of tax revenues. The numbers seem large in isolation but when see as a percentage of government spending they aren't so exciting. £33.000,000 a damned day is enough to pay for a lot of doctors or nurses or police officers or soldiers or sailors or air force personnel. It would provide a huge boost to infrastructure, certainly enabling one or two major projects to move forward annually. It soon ruddy adds up you know. It is better off in our pockets than in the pockets of Jacques, Jose, Jurgen, Johann, Jan. Giovanni or Joao's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Never mind spending 33k a day on non wealth creators. How about spending it on creating new export markets, presently British export deals need go through Brussels. Likewise new business grants for expansion, development of new patented designs etc. Then spend the wealth our nation creates on infastructure rather than keep raiding the taxpayers wallets, like the EU have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Exciting enough to pay for quite a few nurses though wouldn't you agree? Quite possibly, but you have to weigh up the cost against gain; Is the cost outweighed by the ease of trading, the access to markets, the common policies for farming etc that level the playing field (large french subsidies in the past had caused lots of problems for British farmers I believe), European arrest warrants, it is also argued by some that the formation of the EU significantly reduced the chances of war in Europe - is that worth 1.8% of our tax? I'm not saying it is value for money, just that it isn't just a case of get out and we are richer. Would that money saved then be used on nurses? Probably not. In fact it is possible that the loss of cheap foreign workers would mean the NHS wage bill could increase - in short, we simply don't know the repercussions of our exit. All we do know is that it is far more complicated than it appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Quite possibly, but you have to weigh up the cost against gain; Is the cost outweighed by the ease of trading, the access to markets, the common policies for farming etc that level the playing field (large french subsidies in the past had caused lots of problems for British farmers I believe), European arrest warrants, it is also argued by some that the formation of the EU significantly reduced the chances of war in Europe - is that worth 1.8% of our tax? I'm not saying it is value for money, just that it isn't just a case of get out and we are richer. Would that money saved then be used on nurses? Probably not. In fact it is possible that the loss of cheap foreign workers would mean the NHS wage bill could increase - in short, we simply don't know the repercussions of our exit. All we do know is that it is far more complicated than it appears. They will not put restrictions in the way of trade, it would cost them more than it does us! The NHS could still hire foreign workers, just they would need a work visa, like the thousands of Philippine nurses that are now in the UK. They want to work we won't stop them. However it will enable us to slam the door in the faces of those who seek benefits only! The French still illegally subsidise their farmers and the Germans ensure their steelworks have cheap energy. The only people to pay by the rules are us, the British, well if the odds are stacked against you does it make sense in keep playing the game? There will be minor to no economic difference in a British Exit, however it does mean that we keep £33,000,000 a day which could be used to benefit the British Public by reducing austerity measures for a start. Now that would start a trickle down effect of injecting money back into the economy or reducing the massive debt we have incurred! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 They will not put restrictions in the way of trade, it would cost them more than it does us! The NHS could still hire foreign workers, just they would need a work visa, like the thousands of Philippine nurses that are now in the UK. They want to work we won't stop them. However it will enable us to slam the door in the faces of those who seek benefits only! The French still illegally subsidise their farmers and the Germans ensure their steelworks have cheap energy. The only people to pay by the rules are us, the British, well if the odds are stacked against you does it make sense in keep playing the game? There will be minor to no economic difference in a British Exit, however it does mean that we keep £33,000,000 a day which could be used to benefit the British Public by reducing austerity measures for a start. Now that would start a trickle down effect of injecting money back into the economy or reducing the massive debt we have incurred! Exactly this, saved me replying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Its never been much about the cost for me, more the fact of having so much unwarranted intereference from EU slapped around out heads. However I do feel that saving 33 million EVERY DAY would do a lot for our NHS, education, pensions etc - and help us stop borrowing money just to keep giving to the EU. Also just why the heck should we fund poorer countries with vastly different cultures and values - I really don't fancy funding Turkey for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 While I can't deny the vast amounts of money we contribute on a daily basis does annoy me, and immigration is also a factor, the biggest and most over-riding priority to get out, and the biggest cause for resentment, to me, is the interference in our lives and our sovereignty by totally unelected and unanswerable bureaucrats. It's bad enough being ruled by those I do elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Although Boris does not come across as the brightest of politicians, it seems the OUT lobby are pinning their hopes on him joining them, there's been a few whispers in the media today from people close to him and they are saying he will go with the OUT lobby, I wonder if this will have much sway on the Nation?Guess we will have to wait for news at 10 and the analysis by the "experts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Although Boris does not come across as the brightest of politicians, it seems the OUT lobby are pinning their hopes on him joining them, there's been a few whispers in the media today from people close to him and they are saying he will go with the OUT lobby, I wonder if this will have much sway on the Nation? Guess we will have to wait for news at 10 and the analysis by the "experts" I just read that he was indeed in the Out camp. I very much hope this is true as it wont do our side any harm at all and will give credibility even if he is a bit of a clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Boris is a very shrewd operator this may be the making of him for the top job take him lightly at your peril dave will be very worried now me thinks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Boris pinned his colours to the mast a little while ago. He may come over as a bit of a buffoon but he's not daft by any stretch of the imagination. Watching Dave the Unready on The Andrew Marr show earlier and it seemed to me that he didn't really believe in what he was saying. He's like a zombie repeating the same old mantra over and over again, 'better off, safer and stronger in a reformed EU'. Get ready to here that one rolled out ad nauseam over the next few months... A bit like the Tories 'long term economic plan' at the last GE. As an ex PR man I guess that's all we can expect from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Boris is a very shrewd operator this may be the making of him for the top job take him lightly at your peril dave will be very worried now me thinks..... Oh yes, there's more to this for Boris than just leaving the eu. If he gets this right he's the next PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Boris is a very shrewd operator this may be the making of him for the top job take him lightly at your peril dave will be very worried now me thinks.....True, although a big risk for Boris too. Boris has certainly given the out campaign a very big boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 True, although a big risk for Boris too. Boris has certainly given the out campaign a very big boost. May be a big risk but he will have had advice and weighed it up very carefully, this is his big chance and he will not want to fluff it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Monkey Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 While I can't deny the vast amounts of money we contribute on a daily basis does annoy me, and immigration is also a factor, the biggest and most over-riding priority to get out, and the biggest cause for resentment, to me, is the interference in our lives and our sovereignty by totally unelected and unanswerable bureaucrats. It's bad enough being ruled by those I do elect. Exactly how I feel Scully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Boris Johnson has joined the campaign to leave the European Union, putting himself at loggerheads with David Cameron and George Osborne.The Mayor of London emailed the Prime Minister yesterday to inform him of his decision but he only confirmed by text message just nine minutes before his public statement today.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12166968/eu-referendum-david-cameron-boris-johnson-live.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) While I can't deny the vast amounts of money we contribute on a daily basis does annoy me, and immigration is also a factor, the biggest and most over-riding priority to get out, and the biggest cause for resentment, to me, is the interference in our lives and our sovereignty by totally unelected and unanswerable bureaucrats. It's bad enough being ruled by those I do elect. This is similar to my impression. All that keeps being banged on about is that migrants wont be able to claim benefit % for X years. But to me this is a minor part of the problem. I just don't want the national identity of or country buckled by X % of the population suddenly speaking a different language to me and I don't want to have to mind what I say or who I offend because they don't like me or my being in my own country. I don't want my daughters having to wear a veil or keep quiet because it might upset some foreign bloke. I don't want to have to take a detour around some minority area. I don't want these men of foreign origin to think that they can rape or abuse my daughters or grand daughters with impunity. I don't see why Dave is hell bent on us getting deeper into a **** pit where it is the slyest that gets his snout in the trough. unless he wants to get his in deeper and follow the bliar' s model. What he has negotiated is nothing and it will soon be swept away like dust. Look at the struggle to get nothing. Greece bottled out because the EU just got the toilet roll out and printed money. this money is non existent. If anyone on here has money problems you cant go to a bank and just take out massive loans and then turn round and say look " Loads O Money" this will be our last chance to haul ourselves out of this pit other than ww3. When germany next goes to the polls Merkel will get booted out because the Germans dont like the fact that they are being overrun by hoards of migrants. Greece wont cope and Turkey cant either. they are using the migrants to put pressure on europe to gain membership of the EU. If Dave had any balls he would instruct the RAF to put a bomb straight through Asads front door and take him out and try to resolve the problem out there. but that might offend some muslim or other brand. Rant over for now . xxxx off OUT Edited February 21, 2016 by fortune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 WELL THAT TOLD 'EM! Straight to the point - or points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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