lozrob Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 i have a 3 year old sprocker named Beau, her training has been an absolute nightmare , almost driving me to insanity. a few weeks ago i posted , that although Beau was difficult to train in her early days, i thought she had " got it , and realised what was expected of her " I MUST HAVE BEEN DILLUSIONAL !!!!! She will behave like a field trial champion in any enclosed area , wether my garden , tennis courts , horse paddock. sitting , staying , stopping to whistle , retrieve to hand, going BACK , walk to heal , sitting steady while throwing dummies / pigeons. BUT , get her into any open ground and when she realises where she is , shes off , like a Demonic greyhound chasing ghosts who has become completely deaf . we could be up the park , pigeon shooting , pheasant drive, anywhere open. she will come back when she wants , not interested in other dogs or people just ghosts, i have had loads of help and tried really hard to use it to the best of my ability. its driving me insane , its getting to a point i dont want to let her off the lead once outside. the only JOY at the moment is leaving her at home with the wife when iu go to work. and to top it all off she is now becoming aggresive , to different members of the family on different days. one day she hates me. another day its the wife , then another day maybe my daughter. she hasnt actually bitten badly yet, she does warn you first , but if you carry on touching her chin or whatever she will bite, im sure she has mental health issues. the vet has said , he is 100% certain its her hormones , and spayding will help , then he can medicate properly. she is due to be done on 5th april. my question is , can i turn this dog around , ( at 3 years old and crazy ), do i wait till after the op to carry on her training ( ive stopped at the present time ) or is she a basket case, another down side is , im having a new knee joint in a couple of months . happy days. loz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 I know she's a sprocker, but have you ever heard of cocker rage? It's getting less common gladly through better breeding but the symptoms around you and your family of agression seem to be characteristics of it to me. Do a google search and check it out. Personally I wouldn't say her hormones would cause that, but I'm not a vet. Some dogs will just never make gundogs, not through the wrong training or breeding, just through personality and traits etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbird Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 I suspected cocker rage too, it seems to be more prevalent in the sprocker from what I've heard than the pure breeds now. If it were hormonal I would expect Beau to not want to be touched by anybody, not singling out a particular member of the family on different days. That said I really hope the op sorts her out Loz x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Some Springers have it too. We also met a golden retriever dog that had some sort of form of it although I have only met one like it. Went to look at it with a view to my father having it. It was a beautiful well trained dog, then it was like someone had flipped a switch and he would grab at you and your clothes and not let go and growl with tail out stiff and hackles up, then moments later back to nice dog again. Needles to say we didn't buy it. The owners admitted they were rehoming him as they couldn't cope with the mood changes and neutering hadn't helped. On a lighter note a friend had two Old English Sheepdog bitches who went aggressive when they came in season. Spaying cured that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 I do not think spaying or castration had a real effect on anything but reproduction. The vet however get a nice cheque I say they are biased and are not dog trainers and you are way better talking to an experienced and proven pro trainer of gundogs not a vet If a trainer wanted to cut my dogs bits off I shouldn't let him or her they are out of thier depth It's like taking advice about your car's engine from a blacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Relax Get the STOP well and trully engrained, lots of eye contact bonding and walking to heal, you can control a dog much easier at 2 yards than you can at 52 . Be aware where she is what she is doing dont let you concentration lapse, keep her at heal. If you go to the wide open space check cord. Take it from there Slowly. Edited March 15, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 My concern would be the temperament . I don't and wouldn't tolerate a dog that behaved in that manner. A friend of mine told me a similar story of a springer of his and I told him to be careful and monitor the dog carefully . Unfortunately the dog bit his son severely and was put to sleep. The training can be picked up at any time in the future but the aggressive episodes need to be delt with now before something occurs that you will regret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Get her spayed but personally I'd be seriously trying to sort it one way or another. Turning on family members and it would be a one way trip to the vets before long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 We had a cocker a few year ago, which on d-day the vet diagnosed "cocker rage" it went wild one day, bit 13 people and when finally caught up and put in kitchen, destroyed the kitchen in minutes. I got a phone call to come and have a look at dog( it was my daughters round at her mams) when I arrived it was like a rabid wolf, told them there was only one outcome, and then got it muzzled up and took to vets, strangely was all cuddly and friendly with me, I felt so bad getting it pts as my daughter was unaware what had gone she was still at school, .. Luckily she understood when we explained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Crikey never heard of this cocker rage thing before Thought you were all kiding . Sticking to springers . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 My concern would be the temperament . I don't and wouldn't tolerate a dog that behaved in that manner. A friend of mine told me a similar story of a springer of his and I told him to be careful and monitor the dog carefully . Unfortunately the dog bit his son severely and was put to sleep. The training can be picked up at any time in the future but the aggressive episodes need to be delt with now before something occurs that you will regret. Agree. She hasn't "bitten badly yet". Bite at all and it'd be on a shaky peg, become unstable and aggressive and it's on a one way trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozrob Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 obviously i am very concerned , but i want to give her a chance , all my family members are adults who all know the score , we have agreed if she bites anyone she is gone. her behaviour in the normal day to day is great , you wouldnt think there was an issue, its when she relaxes , on the floor , or by your feet , near the fire, anywhere really , once relaxed if you then go to her to pet or even go to move her she lifts her lip and growls.and if you keep it up she will bite. also if you try to tell her off with a finger point and a " NO " she growls and shows her teeth, hates her ears being tugged , only done it the once , we found that out the hardway. when she is eating its a strange one too , she will share her food with other dogs , let you put your hand in the bowl and she will eat through your fingers . but touch her and you get the same treatment. she is not a people person what so ever , and not interested in other dogs. she will follow me about as if she attached on a line, absolutely loves my eldest son ( 31 years old ) but lately been growling at him also when he goes in for a cuddle. im hoping the spaying is going to give her a chance , otherwise i do know what ive got to do, loz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I feel for you as it's a difficult situation.. My friends springer dog was 5 years old and over a period of time became very defensive of his personal space, starting with his wife then their child and eventually him. He bit their son quite badly and then they took the only step possible. It's very easy to be objective when it's not your dog and I would doubt spaying her will have an effect but if it was mine I would do everything possible , including spaying, to get to the bottom of the problem. I hope you have a positive outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 what %age protien food have you been giving it ?...............get it down to as low as possible 10-12%.....then see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozrob Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 ditchman, 23 %, she is on a dry food , salmon and potatoe , by bombadier, seems to be ok , poo is in good shape, coat is good. been on this for a year and a half. she will eat anything i put down . dry or soaked in hot water. but a lot of other dog foods give her the squits badly , comes out like coffee. especially all skinners food./ chudleys etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) ditchman, 23 %, she is on a dry food , salmon and potatoe , by bombadier, seems to be ok , poo is in good shape, coat is good. been on this for a year and a half. she will eat anything i put down . dry or soaked in hot water. but a lot of other dog foods give her the squits badly , comes out like coffee. especially all skinners food./ chudleys etc. 23% protein is fairly high if she is not doing much work. I would have said that the running off could be sorted one way or another , but like most I see the aggression issue as the most worrying thing and fear you may have trouble stopping that , I personally thing spaying will make no difference , but it has to be worth a try considering the alternatives. Failing that I don't know how your dog has been treat but it may be a case of leaving her in no uncertain terms who is top of the pecking order. To be brutally honest if she was mine I would cut my loses and she would have a one way trip to the vets , I will forgive my dogs all their faults but aggression , I know no dog can be trusted 100% but I could not live with the doubt of the one you have . That's me however , I hope you can get her problems sorted . Edited March 16, 2016 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.w. Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 23% protein is fairly high if she is not doing much work. I would have said that the running off could be sorted one way or another , but like most I see the aggression issue as the most worrying thing and fear you may have trouble stopping that , I personally thing spaying will make no difference , but it has to be worth a try considering the alternatives. Failing that I don't know how your dog has been treat but it may be a case of leaving her in no uncertain terms who is top of the pecking order. To be brutally honest if she was mine I would cut my loses and she would have a one way trip to the vets , I will forgive my dogs all their faults but aggression , I know no dog can be trusted 100% but I could not live with the doubt of the one you have . That's me however , I hope you can get her problems sorted . I agree with you, it wouldn't even make it to the vet with me, I don't tolerate any kind of aggression whatsoever, you need to trust in your dog, how could you ever trust a dog like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 You say that the dog hasn't bitten anyone yet but then you say that if you carry on with some actions then she bites?? I'm sorry to be blunt but if any of my dogs bared their teeth at me they would be left in no uncertain terms who is top dog in the house - the Bitch is simply challenging you for possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozrob Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 when she was very young 3 to 6 months old , she had got onto one of the sofas in the conservatory and fell asleep. I went in and went to move her off ( not allowed on sofas) which is when I saw the growling showing of teeth for the first time, I went to make a grab of the scruff to get her off ( show her whos boss type of thing ) and that is when she bit my hand and drew blood with 2 or 3 puncture wounds for the first and only time. I pinned her to the floor until the snarling subsided , and it was if a switch had been flipped , she looked as if she didn't know what just happened. i then walked her out to her kennel and put her away for the night. since then we as a family just thought she was a grumpy dog when she was asleep and when it was time to move her to her kennel did it a command rather than touch. but lately the aggression is getting more frequent . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozrob Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 if i do end up losing her , i wont be getting another one, i could not do this over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Once is once too often in my book , I may get slated for saying it but if it were mine then it would be up the vets in the morning , and that is not for spaying . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 if i do end up losing her , i wont be getting another one, i could not do this over again. It would be difficult after all the work you have put in , but you have been unlucky , to me its a trait she has which will not be trained out. Its never easy if they are lost for any reason but I am sure you would want another in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozrob Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 if you have read the earlier post about the feeding bowl and my fingers , i went to see a behaviourist and it was he that told me to feed beau with my hand in her food , that was nearly 8 months ago , it hasn't changed a thing i still cant touch her when she is eating, but she doesn't mind my fingers in her bowl , she even licks them clean. and also to command her to move off from sleep rather than touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 if you have read the earlier post about the feeding bowl and my fingers , i went to see a behaviourist and it was he that told me to feed beau with my hand in her food , that was nearly 8 months ago , it hasn't changed a thing i still cant touch her when she is eating, but she doesn't mind my fingers in her bowl , she even licks them clean. and also to command her to move off from sleep rather than touch. Its all very well you knowing to command rather than touch but what about others , visitors , strangers and god forbid children . What if one of those times she runs off she comes across any of those ? as I said in my first post I personally could not live with the doubt . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiler23 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I'm with you on this.. Any of my dogs shown aggression to my family, I'd kick them all the way to the vets... It's something that cannot be put up with in my eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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