four-wheel-drive Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 if it's done for sport then it should be done with the minimal of suffering not chased for as long as possible just for the fun of it! Do you think that a fox thinks when I get in the hen house I will kill all of the hens in there just so that they do not have to live with seeing me kill one or two of there relatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 There is a stupid amount of speculation, hype and potential inaccuracy in the reports I have seen. It doesn't look good on the face of it, but if you spent enough time following and filming LACS then I'm convinced you will be able to film a speculative damaging report against them as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achosenman Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I think shooters that the farmer allows on his land are there for two reasons. The shooter probably more for fun, the farmer purely for vermin control. If the farmer cannot get someone to shoot his foxes for free, he will do it himself or pay someone else to do it. Either way it gets done. Edited June 23, 2016 by achosenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Disgraceful thing to do and in my opinion foxhunting is not about vermin control as it's been 11 years since the ban and were not exactly tripping over foxes. Outdated and indefensible if you're waiting for the act to be repealed don't hold your breath. Perhaps you would confirm what exactly is a disgraceful thing to do, I haven't seen anything except assumption! Which part of Wildfowling, pheasant shoots etc is about Pest Control? Edited June 23, 2016 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Do you think that a fox thinks when I get in the hen house I will kill all of the hens in there just so that they do not have to live with seeing me kill one or two of there relatives. it's called instinct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) if it's done for sport then it should be done with the minimal of suffering not chased for as long as possible just for the fun of it! Do u shoot driven pheasants? Do u not think chasing them from 1 wood to the next is very humane esp when a good kill ratio is 3:1 and many teams will be a lot higher. Or do u coarse fish (or game fish in scotland as most is catch and release now) hardly humane playing fish only to put back or keep in a tiny net before puttin back A hunted fox gets away 100% unhurt or dies, there is no wounding there is no jaws shot off or gangerine involved. U would probably find fitter and healthier foxes on hunted land which would tend to predate less on farm livestock as capable of catching enough wild animals. I've once seen a fox get away by running up the same field it ran down with hounds right on its tail, jumped a dyke into wood and doubled back hounds carried on into wood, it is not clinical and they do not always get a kill (althou a lot more clinical in scotland now as u shoot the flushed foxes so can shoot multiple foxes per wood) Wether or not u really agree with it why do shooters/field sports men have to belittle and drag other aspects of field sport throu the mud at every oportunity if u shoot anything alive with a rifle or esp a shotgun ur moral high ground/high horse is generally not as high as u'd like to think it is On the face of the clips it doesnot look too postive but he could well have killed the cub first before entering it to the hounds and just winding them up a bit Edited June 23, 2016 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Do u shoot driven pheasants? Do u not think chasing them from 1 wood to the next is very humane esp when a good kill ratio is 3:1 and many teams will be a lot higher. Or do u coarse fish (or game fish in scotland as most is catch and release now) hardly humane playing fish only to put back or keep in a tiny net before puttin back A hunted fox gets away 100% unhurt or dies, there is no wounding there is no jaws shot off or gangerine involved. U would probably find fitter and healthier foxes on hunted land which would tend to predate less on farm livestock as capable of catching enough wild animals. I've once seen a fox get away by running up the same field it ran down with hounds right on its tail, jumped a dyke into wood and doubled back hounds carried on into wood, it is not clinical and they do not always get a kill (althou a lot more clinical in scotland now as u shoot the flushed foxes so can shoot multiple foxes per wood) Wether or not u really agree with it why do shooters/field sports men have to belittle and drag other aspects of field sport throu the mud at every oportunity if u shoot anything alive with a rifle or esp a shotgun ur moral high ground/high horse is generally not as high as u'd like to think it is On the face of the clips it doesnot look too postive but he could well have killed the cub first before entering it to the hounds and just winding them up a bit The BIG difference is Fox shooters are not blatantly breaking the law.. Edited June 23, 2016 by Davyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 The BIG difference is Fox shooters are not blatantly breaking the law.. You may well not agree with Fox Hunting but where on earth are you getting this blatantly breaking the law from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 There is no evidence the hunt have actually broken the law yet either.It is perfectly legal to catch cubs in a cage trap and remove them to be PTS'd. No one has any evidence yet to the contary? And do u really think all those roe deer shot at nite are entirley legal? its not all illegal guns doinfg the poaching u know. Playing devils advocae a bit, but it always seems a large % would rather take the word of some LACS terrorist as gospel and believe everything they do. These are the same people that think of nothing attacking supporters with hammers and bars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Where does it actually show it being given to the hounds? Could have taken it in the shed and PITS. Unlikely I know .......... but. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Where does it actually show it being given to the hounds? Could have taken it in the shed and PITS. Unlikely I know .......... but. The commentary was appalling at that time, a few barks/howls from the pack and the commentator suggests the dogs have been excited by the fox, hell, I hear far more than that when I do my pest control inspections round my commercial kennels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 the footage doesn't look good and brings are past time into bad publicity, for all we know it was ended quickly and then given to the hounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 The commentary was appalling at that time, a few barks/howls from the pack and the commentator suggests the dogs have been excited by the fox, hell, I hear far more than that when I do my pest control inspections round my commercial kennels! Didn't have speakers on. Doesn't actually show the hounds though does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 You may well not agree with Fox Hunting but where on earth are you getting this blatantly breaking the law from? I had a confrontation with the Hunt bullies lets call them last harvest.I was confronted by the same two in one week.I was told to leave the foxes alone, when i told them no & reminded them that they where stopping me carrying out my legal business.As they walked away one state that its not wise being out on my own & 2/3am in the morning.Now you can read that anyway you want but it was one of the deciding factors that saw me retire from shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Didn't have speakers on. Doesn't actually show the hounds though does it? Nope, but as soon as I saw/heard that part I thought the commentator doesn't have a clue and is speculating something stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I have never believed fox hunting is about pest control. I am aware of more than one incidence of foxes being held captive to be released at later dates to believe it. Weren't foxes introduced to Australia to provide the so called hunt set some 'sport'? I think foxes were also introduced to control the introduced rabbits (good old days ! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Do u shoot driven pheasants? Do u not think chasing them from 1 wood to the next is very humane esp when a good kill ratio is 3:1 and many teams will be a lot higher. Or do u coarse fish (or game fish in scotland as most is catch and release now) hardly humane playing fish only to put back or keep in a tiny net before puttin back A hunted fox gets away 100% unhurt or dies, there is no wounding there is no jaws shot off or gangerine involved. U would probably find fitter and healthier foxes on hunted land which would tend to predate less on farm livestock as capable of catching enough wild animals. I've once seen a fox get away by running up the same field it ran down with hounds right on its tail, jumped a dyke into wood and doubled back hounds carried on into wood, it is not clinical and they do not always get a kill (althou a lot more clinical in scotland now as u shoot the flushed foxes so can shoot multiple foxes per wood) Wether or not u really agree with it why do shooters/field sports men have to belittle and drag other aspects of field sport throu the mud at every oportunity if u shoot anything alive with a rifle or esp a shotgun ur moral high ground/high horse is generally not as high as u'd like to think it is On the face of the clips it doesnot look too postive but he could well have killed the cub first before entering it to the hounds and just winding them up a bit I agree with much of this, which is why the hunting fraternity need to get their act together and decide why they hunt foxes. If it's vermin/pest control then why do some claim it serves a purpose of weeding out the sick and infirm, leaving a healthy fox population? Why on earth would anyone want to wipe out the old, sick and infirm and leave a fit and healthy vermin/pest species roaming the countryside? If it's for sport then say so. It may not be a popular claim, but it still wont be anymore unpopular than it is now. Why have drag hunts if it's not for the sport? There is no fox, so it must be for sport...mustn't it? It's a bit like me taking my rifle for a walk but not being allowed to shoot anything! It's as ridiculous as game shooters claiming pheasant shooting is carried out for pest/vermin control, and therefore doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. Game shooting is just as unacceptable to the anti killing fraternity, but it generates an enormous amount of revenue and that, for the time being, is its only justification for surviving. Money talks, and that is the big difference. Times are changing, and it remains to be seen just how long our country pursuits can survive. The idiots amongst us will bring the end sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Really don't know how these cruel ******** sleep at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Really don't know how these cruel ******** sleep at night You mean LACS of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Supersport04 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 In the video clip on the bbc website the woman from LACS says something along the lines of the "hounds don't instinctively want to hunt and kill the foxes and have to be trained". Is she right? I always thought it was the hounds instinct to do so as lots of dogs i know will chase fox and deer and if they catch them they will kill them. I have always loved hunting with hounds (foxhounds in particular) because i love seeing animals doing what they were bred for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I stand to be corrected by more knowledgable hunt/kennel men but ur right it really is a natural thing, the training aspect will be more 'fixing' them on foxes and not on deer, rabbits or livestock. Same with terriers generally always keen to get down holes even when not from working stock or german lines of GWP/DD having a real strong hatred of cats, more so than most other dogs as in germany have to kill a cat to be allowed to be bred from Traditionally u would introduce hounds onto cubs in late summer cub hunting just as u do similar with terriers, sort of same as introing feather then cold/warm game for gundogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 In the video clip on the bbc website the woman from LACS says something along the lines of the "hounds don't instinctively want to hunt and kill the foxes and have to be trained".Would it be equally true to say that cats don't instinctively want to hunt and kill birds, and that all those cat-owning LACS supporters must have deliberately trained their pets in how to decimate the songbird population? Can we expect a BBC broadcast to confirm that sheep-worrying only occurs when dog-owners have deliberately trained their animals to chase and attack sheep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darno Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 never supported it, 1 clean shot,done humanly 2 chance a fox allover the countryside before its killed (not humanly) +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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