Continental Shooter Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hi all, Yesterday the police came round for the usual checks before renewal and advise the medical records were missing. A quick call to the GP surgery revealed the GP declined to sign due to him not having enough record to allow him to sign the disclosure. I moved house and changed GP in May 2015 and i never needed to visit the GP other than for my annual blood test; of course this isn't enough from a 'personal' judgment perspective but surely he must have my records from previous GPs. My old surgery had no issues signing off when i first applied so, can't see why this one has. I suspect is on a personal/conscientious ground but that's obviously putting me in danger of not being able to renew my SGC. Chatting with the officer at mine i found out that this is happening suspiciously often in the Edinburgh area and is not only putting holders at risk but also causing so much extra work for the police. Now, surely the GPs are only required to put a marker and send a disclosure saying they haven't got anything on records to stop the patient having an SGC.... but why are they doing that? it's bad enough that it cost more for the letter (£50) than the renewal (£49) ... now are they advocating the power to decide who gets an SGC or not? Anyone experienced the same or can provide some legal advise? cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 This may help https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/basc-urges-members-not-to-pay-gp-fees/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel73 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I live in Peebles and our local practice is saying if you don't pay us £200 the doctor won't be replying to the police regarding your application. Good eah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 ..... the GP declined to sign due to him not having enough record to allow him to sign the disclosure. ..... it cost more for the letter (£50) than the renewal (£49) Are you saying the GP demanded a fee in advance, and now refuses to provide the service for which he has been paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted December 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 update on the case: After emailing BASC last night they were of great moral support but little practical support on the matter. It is to be remembered that this practice was agreed with the MBA so, i went on their site and found this It bear simple but effective paragraphs such as: This guidance now takes account of the regulatory obligations on the part of GPs and specifically the requirement to 'comply with all relevant legislation'. This obliges GPs to cooperate with and agree to facilitate statutory processes in which they have a prescribed role or function. or It is also clear, as previously advised, that it is not acceptable for GPs to merely disregard the letter, not inform the police or to delay a reply - in doing so GPs could be placing themselves at professional risk. It is also worth noting that the GP must return the form no later than 21 days and that if he/she has a contentious objection he/she needs to make suitable arrangements to ensure the paperwork are returned to the police without delay; this include finding another GP or private doctor. In fact BASC advised anotehr GP, or private doctor could sign the paper by just looking at your record; which in some case might be cheaper than the £200 For me it all worked out fine; after last night chat i called them this morning to quote the above paragraphs and threaten to tell the police they were withholding my paper for more than 21 days and i would take legal action as they were deputising for matters out with their duty. By 2 pm i received a call to say they found anotehr doctor who quite happily signed the paper for a modest £65 fee. At this point, my question is: surely the SGA, BASC, CA, etc. would have their doctors or could gather a list of doctors who are also shooter Once this list is public, the members can chose whether to go to their GP or these GP/private doctors who can then sign the paper (after looking at the record, of course) for a fair, pre-agreed fee. This will guaranty fairness and legality as well as some sort of supervision from our associations: the doctors will still adhere to their code of practice, the holders will not be held at ransom by the GPs and the process will be smooth and fair. My advise to those whom have been asked an absurd fee is to go find yourself another GP, they'll loose money and you might find a decent GP somewhere else; failing that, try a private doctor; it might be cheaper... off to pay the fee now good luck everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) I live in Peebles and our local practice is saying if you don't pay us £200 the doctor won't be replying to the police regarding your application. Good eah I've heard of charges of £20 to £30 but that is ridiculous. You don't have to pay these fees and their statement is missing an important fact - if the GP doesn't respond within 21 days then the renewal proceeds without it. So yes the doctor may not reply but they aren't telling you that it isn't necessary for them to do so for you to get your certificate. This really is a rip off by the doctors - what do you actually get for your NHS money these days? They are starting to add more and more on as extras. Read the BASC article. Edited December 9, 2016 by ChrisPCarter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) my doctor said that they have to right a letter, witch all takes time and is some thing they could do with out.he said by next year it should all be sorted out. Edited December 9, 2016 by mossy835 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) my doctor said that they have to right a letter, witch all takes time and is some thing they could do with out.he said by next year it should all be sorted out. It will be a standard letter though, especially if there are no medical conditions which I would think is most people. It's a case of check records, click print and pop it in an envelope with a stamp. If they have medical history that's applicable it will be a copy and paste job plus line of text to say if it's a pass or fail for a certificate??? It won't even be the doctor doing it, just office admin staff and signed by the Doc! I'd have thought £10 to £20 would more than cover the time and costs for ten minutes work? £50 to £200 is ridiculous. If I was a doctor I'd set up in business just handling this process and make a fortune. Edited December 9, 2016 by ChrisPCarter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 The madmen are in charge £65 is to £65 to much. I would send the invoice to whichever shooting organisation represented the shooters in this process, a process which was to deliver a ten year certificate as I have said before the police got access to the medical records at what looks like a significant cost to us and we got ........... Nothing in return. We have been badly let down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 The doctors that my mrs works for don't charge initial form, but then it is a one word answer to one question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Police Scotland are taking a different view as to the non response from GP's to their counterparts in England. Their argument is based on wording in the act that requires the CC to be 'satisfied'. Their view is that with no response from a GP the CC cannot be satisfied, despite the guidance being otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 they are a law unto them selfs,dont know how they get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 they are a law unto them selfs,dont know how they get away with it. As with most thing nothing will change until someone takes it to court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I did consider trying to set up doing this, the issue was getting indemnity for it and getting access to records, all for a rate that would allow a competitive price. The problem here is that a paper copy of the records is price capped at £50, which it is likely any practice looking to maximise income from this will also be charging. If all records are held electronically this drops to £10 but this situation is likely to be rather unusual in my experience. Shipping the copy of the record to me would need to be covered which again is unless entirely electronic likely to be around £15 for special delivery. Then costs for returning a letter to GP advising them of the outcome and police at roughly £1.50. Assuming an average of 20 minutes work per case (some may be much much more), and not being able to safely reply in a portion of cases which it would be nice not to charge for, it gets tricky to see how I can pay my tax, NI, student loan, and bring home £20 an hour without charging such that the total cost to the patient would be well over £65 even assuming £0 indemnity costs which is entirely fanciful. Also I would like to see more than £20 an hour coming home for taking on such work. It will be a standard letter though, especially if there are no medical conditions which I would think is most people. It's a case of check records, click print and pop it in an envelope with a stamp. If they have medical history that's applicable it will be a copy and paste job plus line of text to say if it's a pass or fail for a certificate??? It won't even be the doctor doing it, just office admin staff and signed by the Doc! I'd have thought £10 to £20 would more than cover the time and costs for ten minutes work? £50 to £200 is ridiculous. If I was a doctor I'd set up in business just handling this process and make a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Aye, law is the same, the interpretation you give to it differs. but that's why you got counties where you wait 6-12 months for the SGC and counties where you only have to wait 1 month. My first application to the former Lothian&Borders police was handed in on 12/12/11, i got a visit from the FO a the 6/1/11 and my cert was issued on 3/2/11 ... Also, having shooting and fire arms permit in Italy and Spain (and having had one in France for 7 years) i can tell you that they are far more restrictive as, other than the GP letter, they also need proper psychological assesments from legal psychiatrists repearted before and after application and every renewal. I can say that i am quite content having to renew it here as every time i ned to renew my other 2 i always need at least 1 week off to go to the process. My problem still is why are the associtation not helping by asking those shooters who are GPs to come forward and help or provide a referral system to those GP who are willing to help... a proportionate fee wouldn't be the end of the world afterall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 I live in Peebles and our local practice is saying if you don't pay us £200 the doctor won't be replying to the police regarding your application. Peebles coat of arms depicts the fish for which the town is famous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma77y Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Hi all nice topic, im having trouble with my gp also. I had a phone call from the practice manager saying that they will be charging me £100 for this initial request if i agree. I have advised them that their fee isn't reasonable as the initial police request is only a basic tick questionnaire and as im not a hypochondriac my medical notes are very small. im sure it would take them at 5 minutes max to complete the form But still to this day the gp aren't willing to budge unless i pay their fee. i sent an email to GMP firearms licencing unit on thursday morning to advise them of the situation but im yet to have a reply or phone call. what do i do? My application is for grant by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I wouldn't pay it if it was £2.50. If they had any serious concerns they'd be only too willing to inform the police. As BASC suggest, if the police haven't heard from your G.P within 21 days then they assume no news is good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I wouldn't pay it if it was £2.50. If they had any serious concerns they'd be only too willing to inform the police. As BASC suggest, if the police haven't heard from your G.P within 21 days then they assume no news is good news. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma77y Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Yeah i have heard that also, funnily enough it was the practice manager who said that to me. Her words were "if you have an issue with the fee why not wait 21 days and it will get granted anyway as thats what it says on the form". As its my first application for grant im worried that if i do the above and refuse to pay the fee then it could go against me and my application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) I wouldn't pay it if it was £2.50. If they had any serious concerns they'd be only too willing to inform the police. As BASC suggest, if the police haven't heard from your G.P within 21 days then they assume no news is good news. Regrettably Police Scotland are taking an alternate approach. There are many examples in Scotland where shooters have been forced to put guns into storage as the police will not renew without the completed form from the GP. There are some shooters who are taking a stand in principle and refusing to pay, but they have no ticket. I personally know shooters who have recently renewed with no fee charged by their GP up to £200. The average seems to be £40. Edited January 14, 2017 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 The post above is a perfect example of the inefficiencies of our shooting organisations. Those in Scotland need to harass their relevant representation and demand they take action, otherwise what is the point of joining? Demand results. Our shooting organisations are forever keen enough to claim this that and the other as to how good they are at fighting our corner and being paid to do so; let them prove it. Make a fuss and become a pain, and tell them that unless this is sorted toot sweet you will not be renewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I wholeheartedly agree Scully. There is a quiet resignation to the problem in Scotland by the shooting org's, or at least it appears to be that way. I applaud the shooters who have taken a stance in an attempt to force change, but for most they just want to enjoy shooting so will pay the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 So what's happened to SACS? What do they advise their members do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I have no idea what the advice from SACS is currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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