Dannyboy220 Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Hi guys, I've taken ownership of a couple of guns from a friend who's grandfather is surrendering his licence. I'll get some pictures sorted out but I'm most interested in finding out some information on a Holland and Holland Sxs with the serial number 8611. It's in fantastic condition but I can't find any others online that I can say it definitely is. Can anyone help with that serial number? The other one is a beaut. Friends grandfather thinks it may have been an apprentice gun as it has no makers name or serial number but is a beautiful Sxs hammer gun with gorgeous Damascus barrels. Cananyone give me any tips on what to be looking out for in order to determine its origin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 some pictures on here, showing the gun from various angles and the markings and stamps will be a good start, plenty of knowledge here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 As said, pictures for the second but for the first, you could try speaking to H&H - mind you, might cost a few bob for the privilege! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I'll get some pics on later, was going to give H&H a call but was advised the Would only offer to sell me their book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) I'll get some pics on later, was going to give H&H a call but was advised the Would only offer to sell me their book It's precisely that attitude in the UK top end gun trade which caused them, in part, to take a hit from the likes of AyA. Edit: Off topic, but Gordon Bennett! The mention of the Holland and Holland book reminded me that I have The House of Churchill by Masters (2nd edition, hard cover with dust cover) which I don't need anymore. Thought I might advertise it on here so checked on the prices. It's going up fast, very fast, so it's not going anywhere soon. Edited December 19, 2016 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.C Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Drop Mr Hadoke a mail at vintage guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Side lock or box lock ? Any wording on the action underside or barrels ? The H & H No's I have would put the gun at a date of 1886 but that may not be the real ate as it will depend on which model gun it is or if it was a gun built for H & H by another maker .Holland's also used different numbers within a range for different models [eg. 111000/ 111500 model A 111500/111999 model B Model then starts at 112000 etc. ] Without any further detail and photos any thig any thing else said would be speculation . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Drop Mr Hadoke a mail at vintage guns Good advice but again not a free service it's how he makes his living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 ive got an h n h catalogue here it lists8406 as 1885 then 8809 as 1886 so i would asume it was made then it doesn,y say what type of gun tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Good advice but again not a free service it's how he makes his living. Probobly want to sell you one of his books . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.C Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Well I did just that, he mailed me back next day and confirmed a couple of points I was unsure of. Free of charge and with no sales pressure hence the recommendation. Can only speak as I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 You lucky man you. I have Mr Haddoke's book ,'Vintage Guns for the Modern Shot'. A mine of information, and droolable photographs while the man's enthusiasm for classic guns radiates from the pages. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I've tried to put some pics up but only have a phone available as just moved. Can't seem to get the uploaded to work but I've got an appointment with H&H tomorrow they've confirmed it's from 1885 so your books right Hawkfanz cheers. I'll get pics up as soon as I can get a decent WiFi hookup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Without wishing to stray off topic I must confess to finding Mr Hadoke nothing but a pure pleasure to speak to on any matter relating to older Guns - he has given me plenty of advice and never even hinted at the fact that he sells the type of Guns that I find most desirable - as for pushing his books - why not? they are an absolute must for historic Gun fans and written brilliantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 Looking forward to seeing the pics of your new guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 imgurl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Sorry it's taken so long fellas, heres the "apprentice gun" any info/ideas will be gratefully appreciated. I shot it yesterday and it fits me like a dream, pulled of probably one of my top 3 shots ever with it. Plus I've got to say I looked the nuts shooting it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) It was first proofed for black powder between 1875 and 1887, it was again proofed for black powder in 1979 under the 1954 rules of proof, it appears to be a nicely made Birmingham gun, the forend catch is the same as on a J&W Tolley gun I own, the pistol grip cap is also Tolley like! It was originally proofed at 13 bore ie .710 it was subsequently proofed in 1979 at .719 in the right barrel and .729 in the left, so it had 9thou removed from the right barrel and .19thou removed from the left prior to the 1979 proof......if it has had no further borework done that is what it probably still measures. I imagine the left barrel is quite thin in the walls? Edited December 23, 2016 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Amazing! Are you in the trade? I knew the someone would recognise it to be similar because of the forend catch. Ive never seen one like it until now. I'll research Tolley thanks. As for the barrels I wouldn't say they are any thinner than any of my other guns, not sure if you can tell much from these pics but the action end look very chunky image hosting more than 5mb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Now I've found an photo uploader that works. Here's a few of the Holland and Holland. I took it to thru London showroom the other day which was very interesting. What can you tell me about it? IMG_20161219_190127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) You can tell nothing from the muzzles! If the person who honed out the bores prior to submitting it for proof left the original choke untouched? This is quite common! The fact that it was proofed for black in 1979 is probably because of the amount of metal removed (probably due to pitting) rendered it unsuitable for Nitro proof? In the original proof The 13B indicates the original bore, the 14m indicates the choke..... Edited December 23, 2016 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy220 Posted December 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Spoke to soon with the image uploader it seems. Try this https://goo.gl/photos/Rdac8LjJf73n679U7 Spoke to soon with the image uploader it seems. Try this https://goo.gl/photos/Rdac8LjJf73n679U7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Now I've found an photo uploader that works. Here's a few of the Holland and Holland. I took it to thru London showroom the other day which was very interesting. What can you tell me about it? IMG_20161219_190127 Link not working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 23, 2016 Report Share Posted December 23, 2016 Spoke to soon with the image uploader it seems. Try this https://goo.gl/photos/Rdac8LjJf73n679U7Spoke to soon with the image uploader it seems. Try this https://goo.gl/photos/Rdac8LjJf73n679U7 Need some more detailed photos! Is it an ejector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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