Time taken to process applications - BASC study

[rbrowning2]

That's the point 'they don't want it going public' as they are responsible for protecting the public and if the number of S7's became public knowledge then the public would know that they are failing.

The licence fee has already increased with no improvement in service & and no amount of money will sort this current system out.

Heads should be rolling within the depart because if it where a business the directors and managers would go.

It needs a total re structure of even and I hate to say it 'a 3rd party operating it.

The issue of an S7 is a admittance of failure and doesn't look good on their already poor stats.To be honest I don't know if all this is intentional , is being ran into the ground so firearm can be banned?

Spot on if it was schools or the NHS it would be in every news paper and on TV and radio.

[Katzenjammer]

I read this in the magazine the other day. Cleveland, my area, didn't reply or take part for whatever reason. However I must put on record that in my experience they have dealt with everything efficiently and in a timely manner. My coterminous renewals were back within a week and as I recall my first application x years ago only took a fortnight from start to finish. I have heard other praise for Cleveland in the clubs I go to and the RFD outlets I have visited and from fellow shooters. Sure there are bound to be some who have a less easy ride but they are the exception rather than the rule in my experience.

 

In my view this is a function that should be centralised in the main in a government dept with field agents to do the visits etc at local level. This could still be the police at local level. I have expounded this view before on here and on other forums. I worked in a licensing operation for a time with the DTI (or whatever they are now). A centralised operation ensured we all sang from the same hymn sheet, had quick and easy access to the policy guys and others for rulings on areas of doubt. This office also dealt with Import Licences for firearm imports as well as other dangerous stuff by the way. A Home office function but handled and manned by the DTI. It still exists of course even though much of the ordinary textile licensing etc has disappeared.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Katzenjammer

[Big Mat]

Hmmm the guide shows Lincolnshire to renew SGC in 62 days. Well come Monday mine has been 60 days. And I've not heard a thing from them apart from a letter saying that I'm proberly going to get a temp cert

 

When I sent my ticket in they still had 90 days to play with !

 

Edit to say I know four other people at my club have been waiting longer than me.

 

I didn't get a visit until 99 days after the forms arrived in their office!

[rbrowning2]

Post code lotto if one force can do it they should all be able to.

 

Not expecting a two or three week turn round as the norm, but for the simple renewals and variations then two months should be the goal.

I accept grants may in some cases take longer due to all this medical intervention but again a goal of four months.

[Davyo]

Post code lotto if one force can do it they should all be able to.

 

Not expecting a two or three week turn round as the norm, but for the simple renewals and variations then two months should be the goal.

I accept grants may in some cases take longer due to all this medical intervention but again a goal of four months.

I think that there shouldn't be a Central force that deals with all the paperwork,once application/renewal comes in then all checks should be done in abc order not cda.Only and only when those checks are complete a home visit by an FEO from the local force should visit.Not the lazy ***** approach of a phone call to ask if anything has changed in your security arrangements.I could have my guns lying all over the house and the house sticking of cannabis or bottles of booze lying all over the place.

It's just laughable what they are doing at the moment,they introduce a medical form (but the have authority originally to get your medical records).Then they take shortcuts like calling you to confirm your security is still ok! Utter shambles and if I was the general public (of which I am know)I'd feel uneasy knowing an authority that is there to protect me is taking shortcuts of this nature.Its not crossing the T's that lead to the Atherton family being wiped out!!!!!

[Scully]

And now we have the evidence to back up the anecdote. Start with the facts then argue the case.

 

Quite agree, but the info' has been out there for quite some time now. I may be wrong but didn't the NGO or CA publish a similar table last year?

[Davyo]

 

Quite agree, but the info' has been out there for quite some time now. I may be wrong but didn't the NGO or CA publish a similar table last year?

Scully your bang on mate, and I think your thinking what I'm thinking, what's been done ? A big fat O. Proof the current system isn't fit for purpose, or maybe it's just the authority that's not fit for purpose Edited March 4, 2017 by Davyo

[Guest stevo]

I'm mostly likely talking a load of tosh here but what about one ore the govt petition things. For a Vote of no confidence in firearms licenceing. Maybe enough signatures could be got to get a debate in parliament ( not quite sure if that's how it works )

 

Just wondering if the press would pick up on it. ?

[Davyo]

I'm mostly likely talking a load of tosh here but what about one ore the govt petition things. For a Vote of no confidence in firearms licenceing. Maybe enough signatures could be got to get a debate in parliament ( not quite sure if that's how it works )

 

Just wondering if the press would pick up on it. ?

The fact of the matter is, we are concerned never mind the general public.We want it put right but a frowned upon as wanting firearms in the 1st instance by a minority.But we want the general public assured that they are in safe hands and that can only be done by a compitant licensing authority.

An example : I was fac/sgc, closed FAC never bothered me it being closed. Son gets FAC/SGC at 15 with open FAC.I phone to asked why open ? And the answer was "we are now operated a one condition licence and that if of an open condition.But when I renewed again closed lol,so what happened to the one condition?

Surrendering my licences was the best thing I ever did.Weve had licence in the wrong name,guns on we have never owned, letters to say we still have guns,but we had proof or sale through registered post ect, but I am still appalled by the threads I read on PW regarding the chaos we call the licensing authority.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Davyo

[rbrowning2]

I think that there shouldn't be a Central force that deals with all the paperwork,once application/renewal comes in then all checks should be done in abc order not cda.Only and only when those checks are complete a home visit by an FEO from the local force should visit.Not the lazy ***** approach of a phone call to ask if anything has changed in your security arrangements.I could have my guns lying all over the house and the house sticking of cannabis or bottles of booze lying all over the place.

It's just laughable what they are doing at the moment,they introduce a medical form (but the have authority originally to get your medical records).Then they take shortcuts like calling you to confirm your security is still ok! Utter shambles and if I was the general public (of which I am know)I'd feel uneasy knowing an authority that is there to protect me is taking shortcuts of this nature.Its not crossing the T's that lead to the Atherton family being wiped out!!!!!

I see it a different way, I can see nothing wrong with doing a renewal over the phone with the a follow up visit when convenient for both when the FEO is next in the area.

 

The process needs modernising what's wrong with just one certificate for both shotguns and firearms like I think they have in Northern Ireland. It's about risk management and in an ideal world the FEO would get to know all his certificate holders after all it's about people management not about how many guns you have be that you one, two or twenty guns.

[Bazooka Joe]

The issue of an S7 is a admittance of failure and doesn't look good on their already poor stats.

 

 

I notice that any reference to a S7 isn't in the list Basc has posted.

 

Was this question not asked at the time David.?

 

Judging the time scale from one force to another in renewals there must have been a fair few S7 allocated.?

 

Cumbria 168

Essex 134 & 210

Great Man 143 & 151

Kent 122 & 225 to name a few.

[catchthepigeonmutley]

Don't know where they get 99 days for a SGC grant for Manchester from - mine took 240 last year. Annoying thing is that if I lived a few miles away over the constabulary border, under Cheshire, it would have taken less than four weeks, as told by another new shooter at the clay ground.

 

Do we know if all the information contained in this table is SOLELY supplied by the constabularies, or if BASC are also including evidence from members' own experiences??

[Scully]

I'm mostly likely talking a load of tosh here but what about one ore the govt petition things. For a Vote of no confidence in firearms licenceing. Maybe enough signatures could be got to get a debate in parliament ( not quite sure if that's how it works )

 

Just wondering if the press would pick up on it. ?

Now that's one petition I'd be most likely to vote on. 👍

I'd even be willing to inform the media.

[defender]

Spoke to West Yorks Police on Wednesday, 20 weeks for a FAC or SGC grant.

I phoned them about a variation they said 8 weeks.

I sent it off with card payment option, it's been 2 weeks and no call for payment.

[Guest stevo]

Now that's one petition I'd be most likely to vote on.

I'd even be willing to inform the media.

 

i think the media would jump all over it ...............big time

[Sat Rat]

Just taken of Kent Police website..Firearms licences - apply today

 

IMPROVEMENTS TO FIREARMS LICENSING

Kent Police has introduced a range of measures to improve the processing of Firearms Licensing applications. This has included:

investment in new staff

changes in the ways licensing requests are processed

increased decision making capacity

additional training for staff

development of new technology

development of online applications and payments

Both Firearms Certificates and Shot Gun Certificates are now being processed faster.

 

We have reduced renewals processing time and while Temporary Licences remain, we aim to reduce the need for these as quickly as possible.

 

We also aim to start the process of introducing online forms for a number of transactions in the first half of 2017. We continue to work with national bodies to bring the grant and renewal process online.

 

A new Firearms Licensing Advisory Group (FLAG) has been formed to help us continue to improve the service we provide in the future. Volunteer members are from the shooting community and meet quarterly to both review changes we are introducing and provide feedback to the senior management team. If you would like to get involved in the FLAG contact: flag@kent.pnn.police.uk

[belly47]

Just taken of Kent Police website..Firearms licences - apply today

IMPROVEMENTS TO FIREARMS LICENSING

Kent Police has introduced a range of measures to improve the processing of Firearms Licensing applications. This has included:

investment in new staff

changes in the ways licensing requests are processed

increased decision making capacity

additional training for staff

development of new technology

development of online applications and payments

Both Firearms Certificates and Shot Gun Certificates are now being processed faster.

We have reduced renewals processing time and while Temporary Licences remain, we aim to reduce the need for these as quickly as possible.

We also aim to start the process of introducing online forms for a number of transactions in the first half of 2017. We continue to work with national bodies to bring the grant and renewal process online.

A new Firearms Licensing Advisory Group (FLAG) has been formed to help us continue to improve the service we provide in the future. Volunteer members are from the shooting community and meet quarterly to both review changes we are introducing and provide feedback to the senior management team. If you would like to get involved in the FLAG contact: flag@kent.pnn.police.uk

They are talking a good game!!!

[PhilR]

I think if the delays in Firearms licensing was publicised in the general public domain it would be skewed against us. The spin on the lengthy delays would be that the police are being diligent in ensuring licences are being issued correctly and if it takes longer in some areas than others so be it.

I think the public would take that on face value and welcome it.

[Davyo]

I think if the delays in Firearms licensing was publicised in the general public domain it would be skewed against us. The spin on the lengthy delays would be that the police are being diligent in ensuring licences are being issued correctly and if it takes longer in some areas than others so be it.

I think the public would take that on face value and welcome it.

I agree the public would go mad and it would back fire on the licence holder.I mean in the sense that the licence authority are there not only to govern the holder but to ensure the public that the holder is safe.However I don't think the public would think that the authority is doing a diligent job at all just because they are taking a long time.Its quite the opposite because they would be asking questions regarding the cockups like wrong guns registered to wrong licence holders etc etc.

Question would be asked like 'why is one area completing applications with say 3 weeks and another force take 30 weeks'?

If they where all taking the same timescale irrespective of area then that would be accepted,even if the wait was long as it's consistency.But it's quite clear that either some are doing it by the book and others are taking shortcuts, probably putting performance statistics before public safety.

[manthing]

If the guvmint can have tables and targets in the NHS that every one has to work to, why not set targets for all public sector operations.

90 days for grant

30 days for renewal or a variation

10 days for change of address.

 

On the other hand I wouldn't mind paying for the service if it was correctly price out.

You pay for an mot on the car every year, but the license is 5 years for not that much more.

[Davyo]

If the guvmint can have tables and targets in the NHS that every one has to work to, why not set targets for all public sector operations.

90 days for grant

30 days for renewal or a variation

10 days for change of address.

 

On the other hand I wouldn't mind paying for the service if it was correctly price out.

You pay for an mot on the car every year, but the license is 5 years for not that much more.

They do, that's why they are reluctant to issue S7's as it's a bad mark against them,everyone issued means a failure complete within the given timescale.They would prefer you to put your guns in storage with a RFD.

[kenholland]

how is the ten year licence doing these day's , that would help a lot too easy I suppose .

[manthing]

They do, that's why they are reluctant to issue S7's as it's a bad mark against them,everyone issued means a failure complete within the given timescale.They would prefer you to put your guns in storage with a RFD.

I did not know that, thanks.

So what are the target times?

Edited March 4, 2017 by manthing

[ShootingEgg]

And now we have the evidence to back up the anecdote. Start with the facts then argue the case.

Exactly this. Dont go empty handed, take information and then atleast you have something to use as evidence.

how is the ten year licence doing these day's , that would help a lot too easy I suppose .

Why would it help? Just moves the problem 5 years down the line.

[Davyo]

I did not know that, thanks.

So what are the target times?

Each force lists them on their home page( all should be the same I suppose)

They are termed as 'Service Delivery Targets'

When my SGC renewal was due I called into Durham office the day before my SGC expired to request a S7.Was met by a young officer who asked me if I could just log them with my RFD lol.I said I wanted a S7, as my SGC was sent as request well before time.It was at this point he tried to talk his way around it saying that they where struggling to meet the what he called Service Drlivery Targets.He quote himself that an S7 is a black mark on their performance if issues as not another deadline met.A senior staff member overheard and ushered him away and she told me that I couldn't have a S7 until 9:00 am on the day my SGC expires.So I had to go back the next day to collect my S7.

By the way this woman officer is the very same one that referred to me a 'oh that at old man again' when I had an issue with my sons FAC have someone else's name on it.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Davyo