pinfireman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Both your last points were spot on Vince. The cynic in me imagined that Corbyn and co couldn't believe it when this terrible tragedy occured and have beep drip feeding since. Saying that, whilst i'm sure TM did no want to get in the way and take anything away from the services etc and has a country to run, meeting a few of those affected woud not have done her any harm. The place to meet those affected, is in private, NOT in public! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Here we go again the usual conservative people blaming it all on corbyn supporters from what I have seen of it most of the people involved are refugees that do not even have the vote so blaming corbyn is just pathetic rubbish but then I would not expect any thing different. what bugs me is these people expecting the fire/police/council to tell them who was lost in the fire I think they need to show them some photos of burnt bodies and ask them is this your friend relative the plane fact is it will take weeks or months to even hope to identify what remains of the dead people I do feel very sorry for these people who have lost friends/relatives but think before you go protesting. What the **** was Lily Allen doing there? Just whipping up more trouble .............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 I love the way that this site is so pro tory and if Mrs may had started the fire herself people on here would still defend her. it's about being amongst the people you represent and to suggest corbyn did it for political gain is in every was as misguided as suggesting may didn't do it for exactly the same reasons, may is scared of the people she is supposed to represent which is why she didn't go an meet them, corbyn wasn't scared so he did. It's that simple but don't let facts get in the way of your love for all things tory. Even the Queen who is in her 90's got off her royal backside and went to meet the people so by your logic she must also have done it for publicity or political gain. It's OK to be pro tory and still like things about corbyn and dislike things about may you know! I bet even David Cameron would have been there and met people the same as any other prime minister we have had before because they felt they had a moral obligation to show support towards the people they represent when it is so desperately needed. May visited the emergency services AND some of those hospitalised, instead of parading in front of the cameras trying to score political points! And for the record, I am NOT pro-tory! And take a look at those rioting over this........if these were the survivors and relatives of the dead and injured, why was a large group, waving Corbyn banners, wearing balaclavas and crash helmets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 And take a look at those rioting over this........if these were the survivors and relatives of the dead and injured, why was a large group, waving Corbyn banners, wearing balaclavas and crash helmets? Far more people have been on the protests (I read 1500+) than ever were in the Grenfell building (circa 600 apparently); As ever the 'usual suspects' were there, Militant Tendency, Socialist worker, Momentum. The banners were there for all to see. I rather think that the unfortunate people involved directly probably had better things to do. There is a small, but very unpleasant group in this country that has been there for years that want to 'bring down' the government/establishment, and are prepared to trample over the less fortunate in order to achieve their ends. We should (as a broad based society) always be wary of this, but such people exploit tolerance and good will, which they perceive as weakness. Unrelated to this, we have no lesser person than the shadow chancellor inciting Unions to a 'summer of action' to bring down the government.' Loose an election, so incite a minority to bring down a government; the fall of democracy? Just a personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 First of all, don't put words into my mouth. I don't assume anything. You're doing enough assuming for all of us. What ticks me off is that I was trying to come up with a solution to a problem and people like you have to put your oar in with absolutely nothing constructive to say. We can all come up with impossible situations but how will that help get people out of burning buildings? I'm guessing those outlined in red above only arrived yesterday, and one of em is in a wheelchair, one on crutches with only one leg and two of em are blind right? . There is absolutely no need to be rude or confrontational. The categories you highlighted in red don't HAVE to arrive from anywhere at any given time, at the grenfell tower fire children DID become separated from parents, elderly DID lose their lives, and disabled person or persons were directly involved. As for sticking my oar in, I was merely giving my opinion on your post, something which I believe is encouraged on an open forum. If you would prefer that I don't have an opinion or that I should keep that opinion to myself please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 There is absolutely no need to be rude or confrontational. The categories you highlighted in red don't HAVE to arrive from anywhere at any given time, at the grenfell tower fire children DID become separated from parents, elderly DID lose their lives, and disabled person or persons were directly involved. As for sticking my oar in, I was merely giving my opinion on your post, something which I believe is encouraged on an open forum. If you would prefer that I don't have an opinion or that I should keep that opinion to myself please let me know. I love proper debate and your opinion is as valid as anybodies IF that opinion is valid, on point and in some way constructive. You chose to ignore the vast majority of people who were able bodied and chose a group of people to suit your argument and you're still doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 There is absolutely no need to be rude or confrontational. The categories you highlighted in red don't HAVE to arrive from anywhere at any given time, at the grenfell tower fire children DID become separated from parents, elderly DID lose their lives, and disabled person or persons were directly involved. As for sticking my oar in, I was merely giving my opinion on your post, something which I believe is encouraged on an open forum. If you would prefer that I don't have an opinion or that I should keep that opinion to myself please let me know. I love proper debate and your opinion is as valid as anybodies IF that opinion is valid, on point and in some way constructive. You chose to ignore the vast majority of people who were able bodied and chose a group of people to suit your argument and you're still doing it. Ok fine let's say that able bodied people, in my opinion given the fact that I know how easy it is to become lost and confused in a fire situation,would still struggle to get to an escape chute. Grenfell tower was unprecedented, from small fire to 96% alight if a very very short space of time. it really is pointless going around in circles, you think an escape chute would have helped, I think it wouldn't have helped. It's as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Ok fine let's say that able bodied people, in my opinion given the fact that I know how easy it is to become lost and confused in a fire situation,would still struggle to get to an escape chute. Grenfell tower was unprecedented, from small fire to 96% alight if a very very short space of time. it really is pointless going around in circles, you think an escape chute would have helped, I think it wouldn't have helped. It's as simple as that. It's not as simple as that at all. The fire started quite low down and you're saying that a chute wouldn't have saved even one life out of the many that died? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 the only thing that could have saved lives in that 360deg blaze would have been a bloody ejector seat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Just a silly question, how big would a drone have to be to carry a person? I'm not seriously suggesting it should be considered as a practical solution at the present time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Just a silly question, how big would a drone have to be to carry a person? I'm not seriously suggesting it should be considered as a practical solution at the present time. how would you get a drone to function thro' a wall of flame.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 With the speed of which that fire took hold and the heat it produced. I dont think many people no matter what means of escape would of got far after ten miniutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Just a silly question, how big would a drone have to be to carry a person? I'm not seriously suggesting it should be considered as a practical solution at the present time. Vince, they are called HELICOPTERS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Far more people have been on the protests (I read 1500+) than ever were in the Grenfell building (circa 600 apparently); As ever the 'usual suspects' were there, Militant Tendency, Socialist worker, Momentum. The banners were there for all to see. I rather think that the unfortunate people involved directly probably had better things to do. There is a small, but very unpleasant group in this country that has been there for years that want to 'bring down' the government/establishment, and are prepared to trample over the less fortunate in order to achieve their ends. We should (as a broad based society) always be wary of this, but such people exploit tolerance and good will, which they perceive as weakness. Unrelated to this, we have no lesser person than the shadow chancellor inciting Unions to a 'summer of action' to bring down the government.' Loose an election, so incite a minority to bring down a government; the fall of democracy? Just a personal opinion. What can you expect from a Labour Party now riddled with Marxists? They ever get into power, then this country as we know it, is doomed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Vince, they are called HELICOPTERS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 It's not as simple as that at all. The fire started quite low down and you're saying that a chute wouldn't have saved even one life out of the many that died?[/quote So it seems you are being confrontational ok The fire spread from 4th floor to top floor in around 15mins, I think that an escape chute would have been engulfed by flames as soon as it was deployed, so I THINK it wouldn't have helped,but that's just an opinion and not a fact. Would that one person be able bodied as it seems children, the elderly and disabled don't count. Watch ESCAPE CHUTE TESTING 200509 on YouTube the first man down got caught up in it and he was a trained professional. Imagine members of the public who are panic stricken piling in one after the other and coming to a blockage, now imagine the whole world watching those poor souls falling to there deaths from a burning chute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Watch ESCAPE CHUTE TESTING 200509 on YouTube the first man down got caught up in it and he was a trained professional. Imagine members of the public who are panic stricken piling in one after the other and coming to a blockage, now imagine the whole world watching those poor souls falling to there deaths from a burning chute. As opposed to burning to death out of sight. The best solution would be sprinklers to stop the fire spreading, if not stopping it then slowing it down. But you would still have the cladding issue spreading the fire up the outside of the building were there would be no sprinklers. Edited June 20, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Sprinklers would have made a difference, add a pressurised ventilation system and the outcome may have been very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Sprinklers would have made a difference, add a pressurised ventilation system and the outcome may have been very different. no requirement in fire regs for a sprinkler, strange but true. buildings only have to comply with existing regs not exceed them Edited June 20, 2017 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Helecopters can't go into fires. OK I can see that, drones start at a few hundred and are flown remotely. This is the deal, fry and die or take a chance on this big drone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Helecopters can't go into fires. OK I can see that, drones start at a few hundred and are flown remotely. This is the deal, fry and die or take a chance on this big drone? im sorry , i was just getting in the spirit of things and a bit of "black humour" wafted over me.......... please take no notice of me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 im sorry , i was just getting in the spirit of things and a bit of "black humour" wafted over me.......... please take no notice of me... Dark humour is fine by me, but I still wonder, if they are talking about drones to deliver parcels why not rescue drones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 Why do we have to have Highrise Flats? Could we not build two storey houses ( Council Houses?) along the route of the proposed HS2? I have never been to London in 71 years , so twenty minutes sooner is of no consequence to me . Why when the Country is on its knees do we have to have so called Politicians (Labour + Union Scum ) kicking the Government ? Why this sudden outrage at the persecution of Muslims ? It is time that Immagrants learned about intergration and abandoned isolation, together we are stronger , divided we will fall . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 After all the pathetic ranting on 'social media' about how long it took for fire fighters to arrive, it is now reported that they were actually at the scene, had believed they had extinguished a small fire in a refrigerator and were leaving the building, telling everyone that it was now out and safe, when it suddenly took hold and engulfed the building. As was said in a letter to the Telegraph, firms can pump concrete 250ft into a buildings window but the fire service only have a capability up to 150ft. The truth will out, but it is becoming more apparent everyday that 'social media' is evil beyond words, only taking one idiot to voice their views and every other numptie believes it and spreads it and of course if they have a bone to chew politically .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 21, 2017 Report Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 1. A warm evening with windows open and curtains inviting the blaze in. 2. An overcrowded building. 3. Possibly flammable cladding. 4. A good strong breeze. 5. The possibly vandalised dry riser system. 6. The retro fitted gas system in public areas. The above elements came together on one evening to cause a terrible disaster. All the calls for man carrying drones, helicopters with massive water tanks or evacuation ladders or escape chutes are from cloud cuckoo land. The one thing that would have helped is a SPRINKLER SYSTEM. This was an old building, there was no SPRINKLER SYSTEM and the cost of fitting one would have stopped it ever being fitted apart from at the time the tower was built. Edited June 21, 2017 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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