31NG Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'm busy having a debate online with some ramblers, following the HIT "animal persecution" footage currently doing the rounds. As ever, it's descended into a general "all shooters are evil" type argument, and one is claiming to have been approached by a keeper holding a loaded shotgun. As a lowly beater, I'm not totally familiar with the finer details of guns: is it possible to be able to tell just by looking, whether a shotgun is loaded? The rambler type claimed he "could see the cartridge in the breech at the side of the gun". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 For O/U only if open For semi Bolt back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31NG Posted July 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 For O/U only if open For semi Bolt back? Re O/U, that was what I thought. Assume SxS would be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 If you can see the cartridge then it sounds like a semi with the bolt pulled back. Indeed, if you can see the cartridge the gun ain't ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31NG Posted July 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 I suspect it's an anti-shooting rambler making things up. I'll challenge him and see what nonsense he comes back with! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 If you pull back the bolt wont the shell come back with it? can it remain in the breech, do you have "tip the gun" to get it out? or will it just sit there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Yes, the cartridge will be drawn back with the bolt. If drawn back slowly it may stay in the receiver and if the gun is tipped to the side it can fall out. Tilted forward it can slide back into the breech. If the bolt is back/open it can't be fired anyway. Edited July 12, 2017 by Rimfireboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-dot Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Pre 1980's gamekeepers did point shotguns at trespassers and my grandfather had a side by side pointed at his head and he reported it to the police and when asked what he did he replied "i relieved m'sel". Now that same gamekeeper is still working at 70+ years and has had his guns taken off him recently three times but gets tbem back as his boss pulls strings for him. Edited July 12, 2017 by Red-dot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 If a sxs was loaded but broken the cartridges would be visible; the gun is still deemed to be loaded. I can't see how one would be visible in a self loader even with a magazine cut off. The side loading gate in the breech of a Browning 2000 for example does leave one clearly visible if I recall, but only if the bolt is closed on a full mag'. I could be wrong as it's some time since I owned a 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Pre 1980's gamekeepers did point shotguns at trespassers and my grandfather had a side by side pointed at his head and he reported it to the police and when asked what he did he replied "i ****** m'sel". Now that same gamekeeper is still working at 70+ years and has had his guns taken off him recently three times but gets tbem back as his boss pulls strings for him. Great just give him them back until one day he pulls the trigger, just like Atherton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'm busy having a debate online with some ramblers, following the HIT "animal persecution" footage currently doing the rounds. As ever, it's descended into a general "all shooters are evil" type argument, and one is claiming to have been approached by a keeper holding a loaded shotgun. As a lowly beater, I'm not totally familiar with the finer details of guns: is it possible to be able to tell just by looking, whether a shotgun is loaded? The rambler type claimed he "could see the cartridge in the breech at the side of the gun". Makes no difference if loaded or not ! But if broken and you approach a trespasser or stray its common sense to remove the carts and make them aware the gun is empty.Should be approached as if your handing a person a open gun.(butt end at the front so the chambers are seen as clearly empty). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Great just give him them back until one day he pulls the trigger, just like Atherton! How do you know he has done anything wrong maybe he is just doing his job.Easiest way to get back at someone is say he threatened me with a gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 It is the responsibility of the person with the gun to show it is safe..... Define "loaded"....is it a gun ready to fire? or a gun with cartridges in the chamber but making no contact with the breech? If it's the latter a gun may be loaded.......but it is safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 It is the responsibility of the person with the gun to show it is safe..... Define "loaded"....is it a gun ready to fire? or a gun with cartridges in the chamber but making no contact with the breech? If it's the latter a gun may be loaded.......but it is safe! To the people who matter the only definition is open and empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-dot Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 How do you know he has done anything wrong maybe he is just doing his job.Easiest way to get back at someone is say he threatened me with a gunHe has threatened me and many others always with a closed SxS. Guns on view from his window. Seroiusly should not have got them back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 As above SxS or OU cartridges only visible if its open, loaded.....um that's a matter of opinion as the gun isn't capable of firing when open. Cant see how anything can be visible on an auto which is why gun safety with an auto is paramount in as much as nobody but the bloke holding it knows or can tell if its unloaded and safe. Just a thought but it could have been an auto with the old trick of a cartridge jammed by its end by the bolt ready for a quick load !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31NG Posted July 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Thanks for all the comments. I challenged the anti about "seeing the gun loaded" - his evasive response just confirmed my suspicion that he was talking out of his ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Antis normally do, there a bit like vegetarians who wear leather shoes. What I don't get about antis is that the majority of em have no problem eating mass produced supermarket chicken but frown upon the poor defenceless pheasant being shot. Hypocrites.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Antis normally do, there a bit like vegetarians who wear leather shoes. What I don't get about antis is that the majority of em have no problem eating mass produced supermarket chicken but frown upon the poor defenceless pheasant being shot. Hypocrites.. This. I had a discussion with a secretary at work who is only to happy to buy a battery chicken but wouldn't accept that a completely free range pheasant that gets shot and eaten has had a much better innings and life (as well as a sporting chance). It all boils down to the dislike of killing in the context of a sport. That also wraps in with the classed perception of only toffs shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshAndy Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'm busy having a debate online with some ramblers, following the HIT "animal persecution" footage currently doing the rounds. As ever, it's descended into a general "all shooters are evil" type argument, and one is claiming to have been approached by a keeper holding a loaded shotgun. As a lowly beater, I'm not totally familiar with the finer details of guns: is it possible to be able to tell just by looking, whether a shotgun is loaded? The rambler type claimed he "could see the cartridge in the breech at the side of the gun". Have you got a link to the video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) This. I had a discussion with a secretary at work who is only to happy to buy a battery chicken but wouldn't accept that a completely free range pheasant that gets shot and eaten has had a much better innings and life (as well as a sporting chance). It all boils down to the dislike of killing in the context of a sport. That also wraps in with the classed perception of only toffs shooting. Yep,them pheasants have a very sporting chance if I am shooting 😁 It's simply a case of chicken breast in cellophane wrapper is totally detached from a real chicken in the eyes of the majority. I bet if these people followed a chicken from birth to death they would change there views. Also maybe game is not consumed in enough quantity in the UK for it to have been accepted by Joe public as a viable and sustainable and dare I say ethical food source. What I like about our lifestyle is the total honesty, dog hunts and flushes it, I shoot it, dog retrieves it, wife dresses and cooks it we all consume it. Up until this stage bird gets to live a fairly normal life...unlike the majority of animals on our supermarket shelves Edited July 12, 2017 by ips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 He has threatened me and many others always with a closed SxS. Guns on view from his window. Seroiusly should not have got them back... Why have you not reported it to the IPCC? I would also sent it all in emails etc so it is documented and get their response in the same. Very clearly documenting what happened and asking why they haven't taken action. After any meetings I would email them 'minutes' of what they said to confirm it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyo Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 How do you know he has done anything wrong maybe he is just doing his job.Easiest way to get back at someone is say he threatened me with a gun Are you saying Red-dot's granddad lied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31NG Posted July 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Have you got a link to the video? Did you mean the original footage provided by the antis? If so, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-40555282. I'm pretty disappointed that BBC East Midlands decided to give this air time (it was on the evening news). It's an allegation of illegal activity, backed up by a video of entirely lawful activity. If you meant footage of the "loaded gun", then no. This was just a claim made by one particular anti/rambler who takes exception to field sports and boasts about damaging snares in the Peak District. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Now that same gamekeeper is still working at 70+ years and has had his guns taken off him recently three times but gets tbem back as his boss pulls strings for him. Hard to accept that this is the full script. Why have you not reported it to the IPCC? I would also sent it all in emails etc so it is documented and get their response in the same. Very clearly documenting what happened and asking why they haven't taken action. After any meetings I would email them 'minutes' of what they said to confirm it. No point posting it on-line, but failing to follow it through the proper channels. If true, it could mean someone's life at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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