Me matt Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) You'd think if said bailiff is allowed to and trained to handle firearms- first thing he sould of done is establish the gun he pulled out of the cabinet wasn't loaded...... made me cringe. Edited September 9, 2017 by Me matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 I fancy a laugh too so why don't you email your FLD and let them know that everyone inside your house can access you keys any time they want as well as anyone that gets invited into the house, that'll be a right jape! Yes some people in here go to extremes - I seem to remember a while someone claiming they have their keys on them "at all times" including when they go in the shower , but unless you're Billy no mates and there's no one else in your house with you or everyone has their own FAC/SGC it's unlikely you're going to get a favourable reply to the above! I live on my own so no other people in my house. My flo knows where my keys are as he has watched me many a time remove keys from door and open cabinet. We must be a dying breed, because I too keep mine on my key ring. Life is already complicated enough with passwords, PIN codes and the like without having to have a digital safe to worry about. It would appear, in many, that having a certificate is the first step to paranoia. Couldn't have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 You'd think if said bailiff is allowed to and trained to handle firearms- first thing he sould of done is establish the gun he pulled out of the cabinet wasn't loaded...... made me cringe. and how many hours of training does the average shooter have before being allowed to go about the country with his gun, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) I do the same although I don't leave keys in the door. I have one key "hidden" and the other on My car keys. My car keys go everywhere with me (also my house keys). If my wife borrows my car (some bell end on here used this as a reason for not putting your cabinet key on your car keys) then she takes the spare key. Simple. And the most secure way to do it. Then when I'm out, both keys physically aren't in the house. And a thief would have to use other means to open the cabinet. So i presume your Wife knows not to use your car keys because the Gun cabinet keys are on there which means your wife knows where they are which i'm sure is a No No ? Edited September 9, 2017 by Snoozer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me matt Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 and how many hours of training does the average shooter have before being allowed to go about the country with his gun, Whos on about an average shooter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 So i presume your Wife knows not to use your car keys because the Gun cabinet keys are on there which means your wife knows where they are which i'm sure is a No No ? 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Whos on about an average shooter? Your post suggested that the bailiffs be trained to handle firearms yet the average shooter has no training before being granted a certificate and allowed out in public with guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 So i presume your Wife knows not to use your car keys because the Gun cabinet keys are on there which means your wife knows where they are which i'm sure is a No No ? My wife knows not to leave me without house keys. The main reason behind the obsession with people not knowing what keys are are is to prevent unauthorised access. When I'm not in, my keys aren't. It makes unauthorised access impossible. Fail at trying to be clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 My wife knows not to leave me without house keys. The main reason behind the obsession with people not knowing what keys are are is to prevent unauthorised access. When I'm not in, my keys aren't. It makes unauthorised access impossible. Fail at trying to be clever. Not being clever at all and i apoligise if i have offended you, just comparing your method of Key security with BASC Firearm & Shotgun security and i regard them in this instance as being "Clever" See below an unedited from their www (oh i did add the Red sorry oh and now the Blue) I love the way people keep banging on about cert holders "Obsession" with hiding the keys but fail to realise it's part of the requirements of holding said cert, I am sure we would all love to be able to attach them to a key ring with all the other keys we have to use in our daily lives.. My keys are "Hidden" where only i know their location satisfied that i have meet the requirements of the FEO. As a side note i think some people forget anyone can read these posts, Anyone lol BASC https://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearm-shotgun-security-what-do-you-do/ "You should ensure that you keep the keys to the cabinet in a place where they can’t be found easily. Remember that YOU are responsible for the security of the guns, and letting people who do not have a certificate (including family members) know where the keys are, is NOT taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they don’t have access to the guns" Ask yourself this "Does my Wife know there are keys on MY set of keys that fit my Gun cabinet" Cause we all do now ! So now we have a Fail but in this instance it's you telling everyone where you keep your Gun Cabinet keys...Sorry but that's a fact. (Blue highlights) Don't ya just love the web.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Feo have been known during a visit to ask the wife to "get the keys" if wife comes back and presents keys to feo then that is a problem for your renewal. NOBODY is supposed to know were your keys are even the feo and your wife, son, daugher, dog. Its a pretty obvious and sensible thing and is not difficult to abide by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 So i presume your Wife knows not to use your car keys because the Gun cabinet keys are on there which means your wife knows where they are which i'm sure is a No No ? When I go out shooting I have my safe keys with me, technically my partner knows where my keys are so is this a no no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-dot Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 ^^^^ happened to one of my mates last month. BIG knuckle wrap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 When I go out shooting I have my safe keys with me, technically my partner knows where my keys are so is this a no no. Not unless your good lady has Mr Tickle arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Not being clever at all and i apoligise if i have offended you, just comparing your method of Key security with BASC Firearm & Shotgun security and i regard them in this instance as being "Clever" See below an unedited from their www (oh i did add the Red sorry oh and now the Blue) I love the way people keep banging on about cert holders "Obsession" with hiding the keys but fail to realise it's part of the requirements of holding said cert, I am sure we would all love to be able to attach them to a key ring with all the other keys we have to use in our daily lives.. My keys are "Hidden" where only i know their location satisfied that i have meet the requirements of the FEO. As a side note i think some people forget anyone can read these posts, Anyone lol BASC https://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearm-shotgun-security-what-do-you-do/ "You should ensure that you keep the keys to the cabinet in a place where they can’t be found easily. Remember that YOU are responsible for the security of the guns, and letting people who do not have a certificate (including family members) know where the keys are, is NOT taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they don’t have access to the guns" Ask yourself this "Does my Wife know there are keys on MY set of keys that fit my Gun cabinet" Cause we all do now ! So now we have a Fail but in this instance it's you telling everyone where you keep your Gun Cabinet keys...Sorry but that's a fact. (Blue highlights) Don't ya just love the web.. Are you for real. MY keys are MY keys and if not in the vehicle ignition or in MY hand whilst being used are in my pocket. The very fact that they are in my pocket provides all the security necessary for the security of my firearms and I would suggest is a jolly sight more secure than hiding them in the house, where they might be found. Following your daft logic, even you would fail your test when you open your cabinet because your wife would know where the keys where when you were opening it. Are you really suggesting that keeping one's keys in one's pocket does not, as the terms of one's FAC stipulates, prevent, so far as a reasonable practical, access by unauthorised persons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 We must be a dying breed, because I too keep mine on my key ring. Life is already complicated enough with passwords, PIN codes and the like without having to have a digital safe to worry about. It would appear, in many, that having a certificate is the first step to paranoia. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-dot Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Bailiffs in other parts of the world regularly encounter owners with guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Feo have been known during a visit to ask the wife to "get the keys" if wife comes back and presents keys to feo then that is a problem for your renewal. NOBODY is supposed to know were your keys are even the feo and your wife, son, daugher, dog. Its a pretty obvious and sensible thing and is not difficult to abide by. Apparently it is ips with some people taking the easy route and considering it their best effort at securing keys, I bet the chap in the program thought he had secured his keys it only takes one slip keeping them like that and your nabbed on Camera But this topic has been done to death here and on other Forums.. I'll keep mine hidden in my house and not advertise the location and others can keep them on their keyring and hope know one reads this thread..End of ttfn Oh before i go i searched and can't find anywhere where they mention Keyring as being a safe place, Puzzled as if that the safest surely it would be mentioned somewhere http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/legal-answers/gun-cabinet-keys-84198 I will keep looking or someone can ref for me please Edited September 10, 2017 by Snoozer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Are you for real. MY keys are MY keys and if not in the vehicle ignition or in MY hand whilst being used are in my pocket. The very fact that they are in my pocket provides all the security necessary for the security of my firearms and I would suggest is a jolly sight more secure than hiding them in the house, where they might be found. Following your daft logic, even you would fail your test when you open your cabinet because your wife would know where the keys where when you were opening it. Are you really suggesting that keeping one's keys in one's pocket does not, as the terms of one's FAC stipulates, prevent, so far as a reasonable practical, access by unauthorised persons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Are you for real. MY keys are MY keys and if not in the vehicle ignition or in MY hand whilst being used are in my pocket. The very fact that they are in my pocket provides all the security necessary for the security of my firearms and I would suggest is a jolly sight more secure than hiding them in the house, where they might be found. Following your daft logic, even you would fail your test when you open your cabinet because your wife would know where the keys where when you were opening it. Are you really suggesting that keeping one's keys in one's pocket does not, as the terms of one's FAC stipulates, prevent, so far as a reasonable practical, access by unauthorised persons. + 1 Edited September 10, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Apparently it is ips with some people taking the easy route and considering it their best effort at securing keys, I bet the chap in the program thought he had secured his keys it only takes one slip keeping them like that and your nabbed on Camera But this topic has been done to death here and on other Forums.. I'll keep mine hidden in my house and not advertise the location and others can keep them on their keyring and hope know one reads this thread..End of ttfn Oh before i go i searched and can't find anywhere where they mention Keyring as being a safe place, Puzzled as if that the safest surely it would be mentioned somewhere http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/legal-answers/gun-cabinet-keys-84198 I will keep looking or someone can ref for me please I am with you snoozer. I will also continue to have my keys well hidden in the house same way I have done it for over thirty years. I have said all I can on the subject 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Don't know what your security is like but no way on earth would you get my guns out in fifteen minutes, if at all. Reasonably hidden I would expect not to mean in your sock drawer, burglars aren't totally thick My gun cabinet i would expect to be able to get into in fifteen minutes with a chisel, hammer, and crow bar. It complies with the required standards. You may be one of the few people who dramatically up-safe. I know a chap who uses a huge old safe i certainly wouldnt expect to get into in fifteen minutes, it weighs 1200kg though. For those of us who buy gun cabinets though the home office standards are quite clear that relatively minimal security is required. Edited September 10, 2017 by Wb123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 . IMO when he opened the safe and handled the firearm he was in illegal possession of the firearm. . So, does this also apply to someone who is waiting for their Shotgun Cert. to be granted, going into a gunshop and handling guns with a view to later purchase ? I think NOT ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) So, does this also apply to someone who is waiting for their Shotgun Cert. to be granted, going into a gunshop and handling guns with a view to later purchase ? I think NOT ! If you walked into a gun shop found the keys to their safe opened it without their permission and handled a shotgun as happened in this case, you would be in illegal procession of a firearm would you not. I think SO !. So to answer your question if someone handled a shotgun in a dealers with their permission and supervision then they would not be in illegal procession of a firearm. Edited September 10, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 I have just watched this episode,and it was stated on the programme that the agents would call in a specialist team to remove the guns,probably a dealer,the agents were within their power to open the cabinet to list the assets,the certificate holder was at fault leaving his keys in the open,that is not taking reasonable care,also once the guns or anything else for that matter have been recorded as seized it is illegal to remove them or sell them as they are then the property of the court,as far as I could see the bloke was a idiot,he owed money to a friend a debt of honour,he had a 4x4 on the drive which he probably paid more than the the 7k the agents valued it at,had guns in the cabinet all be it only low grade brownings,so shows he was not entertaining any thoughts of repaying the friend who trusted him,but one thing to come out of it was that yes you can and will lose your guns to bailiffs if you try to stitch someone over money, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Not being clever at all and i apoligise if i have offended you, just comparing your method of Key security with BASC Firearm & Shotgun security and i regard them in this instance as being "Clever" See below an unedited from their www (oh i did add the Red sorry oh and now the Blue) I love the way people keep banging on about cert holders "Obsession" with hiding the keys but fail to realise it's part of the requirements of holding said cert, I am sure we would all love to be able to attach them to a key ring with all the other keys we have to use in our daily lives.. My keys are "Hidden" where only i know their location satisfied that i have meet the requirements of the FEO. As a side note i think some people forget anyone can read these posts, Anyone lol BASC https://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearm-shotgun-security-what-do-you-do/ "You should ensure that you keep the keys to the cabinet in a place where they cant be found easily. Remember that YOU are responsible for the security of the guns, and letting people who do not have a certificate (including family members) know where the keys are, is NOT taking reasonable precautions to ensure that they dont have access to the guns" Ask yourself this "Does my Wife know there are keys on MY set of keys that fit my Gun cabinet" Cause we all do now ! So now we have a Fail but in this instance it's you telling everyone where you keep your Gun Cabinet keys...Sorry but that's a fact. (Blue highlights) Don't ya just love the web.. By that blindly following the rules without interpretation logic. A key safe would be unacceptable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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