17 HMR Ammo issue

[hwr]

Good idea

I hope the result is that it doesn't happen in the future, I love the HMR .17

Actually I haven't heard of that site before but while looking for your post I found a thread from 2014 about 8 rifles being destroyed.

Edited September 10, 2017 by hwr

[Flyboy1950]

I have had my 17HMR now for around 10 years and have certainly had my share of split cases. (No one manufacturer it seems is immune).

After chambering a round at my local gun club one evening, I had occasion to unload. As usual I keep my hand over the ejection port in order to not have to scramble around looking for a live ejected round. The case came out but left the bullet in the lands, this resulted in powder being spilt all over the magazine and breech area. The case was split.

After cleaning up the mess I had the problem of what to do with a bullet lodged in the rifling and no rod to remove it, you may or may not agree with me but on checking the rest of my boxes of HMR ammo on the range (4 new boxes unopened) I found a further 12 rounds with split cases. They were distributed around Remington, CCI and Hornady. These boxes were around 2 years in my gun safe prior to use. I decided to fire the bullet clear by removing a bullet from a split case and inserting the new case and powder carefully back into the cleaned breech. This worked well (with me holding the rifle at arms length) with no apparent difference in the discharge. The rest of the split cases, (I later pulled the bullets) discovered that in around half of these, the cartridge had obviously managed to let a certain amount of moisture in, via changes in air temperature and humidity and as a result it had clumped the powder into rather large lumps. I therefore concluded that the "poppers and squibs" were due to damp ingress over a period of time.

A week later I rechecked my bolt and magazine spring and found rusting was still occurring, as I hadn't managed to remove all of the unburnt powder as I thought. So if you have a powder spill, make sure you get it all out as its highly corrosive in in its unburnt/raw state.

As always, if you have a report that is not usual, it is imperative that you check your barrel is clear.

I would also make it quite clear that I would not recommend my barrel clearing method if there was any reason to think that the bullet had managed to start its journey along the barrel.

I now check new boxes of HMR on getting home and remove all the split cases, these then get shot off on the range knowing that I can rely on those that are left in the box.

I have not found that the rifle breech or chamber causes splits, I believe that this is due to the lack of annealing during the manufacturing process as the case has already been primed.

I love the rifle and it sits beautifully between my 22LR and 223 for the work it has to do, I wouldn't want to be without it.

One of my shooting pals recons its the best ever "survival" round, and I may have to agree with him.

[Walker570]

The response on the Shooters Forum so far from a pro gunsmith is that the splits are a result of oversize chambers and he mentions some chambers being .009 oversize.

The cases are brittle by nature but from what I can understand, fired in a correct size chamber, the excessive splitting as shown the photo above should not occur.

That is the reason I suggested taking a chamber cast.

I must have been lucky in that both of the CZs I have owned have had properly sized chambers.

[bumpy22]

The response on the Shooters Forum so far from a pro gunsmith is that the splits are a result of oversize chambers and he mentions some chambers being .009 oversize.

The cases are brittle by nature but from what I can understand, fired in a correct size chamber, the excessive splitting as shown the photo above should not occur.

That is the reason I suggested taking a chamber cast.

I must have been lucky in that both of the CZs I have owned have had properly sized chambers.

Dont like to make this a false claim by a smith. But just opened a box of hornady out of 50 rounds 15 have split necks before firing. I have had hundreds but then I genuinely get through a few. Have pics of unfired brass with splits will try and get my mate to put it on here

[team tractor]

I've had mine almost 5 years and I'll guess 1000 rounds?

Ive never found a single split case and I check them all.

My mate had one misfire in his gun but I shouted at him to stop. He kept forcing the next round in like a muppet until I walked away. He hadn't heard it but I did .

A few years ago at the Pw rifle shoot a guy walked up with his gun in bits after it blew apart .

[ShootingEgg]

Courtesy Of Bumpy, this is brand new out the box today.. 15 had split cases.

 

[Dekers]

There is Nothing new about this, it has been going on for years, and frankly, despite certain suggestions from the industry, the problem is not solved!

 

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/are-these-split-rifle-shells-safe-19680

[Walker570]

Bumpy, not doubting at all that they exist, but if the chamber is .009 too large then it increases the problem. The gunsmith accepts the cases are brittle which doesn't help.

You got me going :-) Just happened to have 41 in the box infront of me and ran all under the magnifier I use for fly tying, no splits. These have brown tips.

 

How many boxes have been returned to retailers as unsatisfactory I wonder. Are you returning your split boxes by the way. Surely manufacturers would start to take notice if this happened.

[Walker570]

ive took to checking a box of ammo under a magnifying glass the night before i go out,just checking it and running your thumb nail around the neck suffices,doesnt help if the cases are splitting when chambering but eliminates any dodgy ones prior to going out

 

must admit to being very lucky (touch wood) , havent had any bad ones as yet with this gun

 

Probably a quality chamber on that rifle then. For cases to split like the ones in the first photo there has to be room for the case to do that, does there?

[bumpy22]

Bumpy, not doubting at all that they exist, but if the chamber is .009 too large then it increases the problem. The gunsmith accepts the cases are brittle which doesn't help.

You got me going :-) Just happened to have 41 in the box infront of me and ran all under the magnifier I use for fly tying, no splits. These have brown tips.

 

How many boxes have been returned to retailers as unsatisfactory I wonder. Are you returning your split boxes by the way. Surely manufacturers would start to take notice if this happened.

i am not doubting that mate. but as we all know a case fracture would ingress moisture which would ruin powder. the charge would be defect lodging a bullet in the barrel. A quick reload could then be fatal. i had one lodge in the barrel luckily for me i knew what to look for and was aware of the problem. but makes you wonder.I was doing a rabbit clearance job last week shot alot of rabbits very quickly and someone in experienced with the faults of this if it occurred could be fatal when rushing. hope this thread opens the eyes to all users of this fantastic calibre but the possible danger of defect ammunition

[hwr]

Just checked 50 and found 2 splits, one I could photograph and the other was finer so I didn't manage to get a decent picture.

[bumpy22]

Just checked 50 and found 2 splits, one I could photograph and the other was finer so I didn't manage to get a decent picture.

thats the ones pull the heads and bin them

[hwr]

Done

The one pictured was easy, the other one was poss more a stress line as it was quite difficult.

[Walker570]

I've just checked my boxes for batch numbers. It just seems strange some of you guys are finding these numbers and others having no experience of them. I agree fully it ain't good, but if we just keep pulling heads and binning them the retailer and wholesaler and manufacturer will just keep churning them out. If it ain't right then drop it back on the retailers counter as defective produce. Certainly now having read all this I will be checking all of mine and you can rest assured I will be getting my money back.

[mick miller]

Pull the bullets. Don't try and pull the head, you'll be there all week (it's the other end).

[Flyboy1950]

Personally I don`t think this problem will ever go away with this cartridge, as in my opinion its caused by the production method not being able to do a final annealing when the neck is sized down. The brass having been work hardened in the shaping, is now to hard when the bullet is finally seated, this is when the brass splits as it cant take the internal stress when the neck tension is supposed to hold the bullet in place.

Unlike centre fire ammo the brass can be annealed at any point until the primer is fitted.

Rimfire ammo cant be annealed after the primer compound is spun in and dried, which happens early after the case is drawn out and annealed (No neck reduction in .22LR or WSM).

Just check your ammo when you get it home.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Flyboy1950

[hwr]

I guess it might be down to batch numbers too.

Here's my latest, I'll be taking them back and have the pictures of the dodgy two and the actual spent split cases. It is a bit ironic as the these were replacement for a previous dodgy batch!

My reason for starting this post is to stop it being swept under the carpet so that the manufacturers have to respond and increase the quality so we can all benefit from a better quality product. ( apart from the rabbits!)

Edited September 10, 2017 by hwr

[Croohur]

I have some CCI I am shooting at the moment outnof my CZ 4555 17hmr.i would say one in every 10 splits after firing. Plenty on rimfire central about the issue. I haven't read anything about spent shells getting stuck. Not ideal at all, but it seems to be part of the manufacturing process stretching the necks of 22s into hmr.

I have some CCI I am shooting at the moment outnof my CZ 4555 17hmr.i would say one in every 10 splits after firing. Plenty on rimfire central about the issue. I haven't read anything about spent shells getting stuck. Not ideal at all, but it seems to be part of the manufacturing process stretching the necks of 22s into hmr.

[Esca]

Out of habit from when I use to reload, I check each case fired. Cannot recall finding any split/dents over a 1000 cartridges fired using a 1517

[ShootingEgg]

My reason for starting this post is to stop it being swept under the carpet so that the manufacturers have to respond and increase the quality so we can all benefit from a better quality product. ( apart from the rabbits!)

So have you sent images to the manufacturers and ask them what they are going to do? As the shop probably just send the box back and swap out.

[Dekers]

I guess it might be down to batch numbers too.

Here's my latest, I'll be taking them back and have the pictures of the dodgy two and the actual spent split cases. It is a bit ironic as the these were replacement for a previous dodgy batch!

My reason for starting this post is to stop it being swept under the carpet so that the manufacturers have to respond and increase the quality so we can all benefit from a better quality product. ( apart from the rabbits!)

 

It hasn't been swept under the carpet, this is COMMON knowledge and has been going on for years...... As I pointed out in my earlier post.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/are-these-split-rifle-shells-safe-19680

 

Particularly this part!!

 

Bob Palmer at Hornady, in an e-mailed reply to George’s enquiry:

 

CCI makes the cases for all the .17 HMR ammo and loads it for the different companies. When they make the cases they draw the case out to a .22mag case that has a straight wall. Then the priming compound is put in the rim of the case. The case is spun to put the primer evenly in the rim.

After the priming is complete the case mouth is reduced to the .17 calibre to hold the bullet. The reduction process, however, puts stress on the neck of the case. They obviously cannot anneal the neck of the case to relieve the stress because of the compound in the rim, so from time to time you will get a case that cracks. Some batches may produce more splits than others. The chamber pressure on .17 ammo is so low that it does not hurt the chamber on the rifle.

They have tried to anneal the cases more before it’s formed to .17, but this did not eliminate the cracks altogether. If the cracks were minor I would continue to use the ammo. The cracks do not affect the accuracy of the round and the brass is not reloadable.

 

Read more at http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/are-these-split-rifle-shells-safe-19680#YXJAqBXvtyF4UKJs.99

[Walker570]

I suppose it would be difficult to insert the priming powder AFTER sizing to 17 cal when annealing could be done prior too that operation OR to expensive. I think if your getting extreme splits after firing then maybe cast the chamber and get it measured. I'm sure that those of us not having/noticing such have correctly sized chambers. Palmer's comment about not harming the rifle is not totally true as some of you have noted the charge can be contaminated and produce a squib load..............

Edited September 13, 2017 by Walker570

[hwr]

Thanks for the replies, it wasn't common knowledge to me that it was still going on then or now and somewhat unacceptable I think if it is.

 

Your article was from 2007, my first gun was damaged in 2011, my friends last month. So as stated before check your ammunition, and be careful.

When mine was damaged the only sign was a miss as it sounded normal.

I've been off the 'scene' the last couple of years and only really use this forum which, as stated previously I searched, although now I am aware of the others.

 

The boxes don't come with a warning

"These wildcat rounds are difficult to anneal so watch out for sqibs which can lead to ringing in the ears and a broken rifle"

So I though I'd post on here.

I'm now a bit wiser and hopefully it's made some others more aware in 2017.

 

I will be emailing the manufacturer too.

 

As always

Safe shooting

H

[oowee]

Just back from a night out. 3 miss fires from 8 shots.

Its a wet night so pocket full of duds will retry them in the morning.

[Dekers]

Thanks for the replies, it wasn't common knowledge to me that it was still going on then or now and somewhat unacceptable I think if it is.

 

Your article was from 2007, my first gun was damaged in 2011, my friends last month. So as stated before check your ammunition, and be careful.

When mine was damaged the only sign was a miss as it sounded normal.

I've been off the 'scene' the last couple of years and only really use this forum which, as stated previously I searched, although now I am aware of the others.

 

The boxes don't come with a warning

"These wildcat rounds are difficult to anneal so watch out for sqibs which can lead to ringing in the ears and a broken rifle"

So I though I'd post on here.

I'm now a bit wiser and hopefully it's made some others more aware in 2017.

 

I will be emailing the manufacturer too.

 

As always

Safe shooting

H

 

Exactly, the article was from 10 years ago, the problem has not gone away or been resolved in that time, nor is it likely to, as you have recently found out!

 

This is COMMON knowledge, of course not everyone knows, but if you buy a HMR most people soon find out.

 

I have said many times this HMR issue should be pinned so EVERYONE here has a chance to see.