Brexit - Merged Threads

[Newbie to this]

she won't be able please everyone.

She doesn't have to, she only has to please the people who voted to leave, everyone else is inconsequential, they had their chance in the voting booths and lost.

[12gauge82]

Poontang and newbie another 2 very relevant posts

[mossberg-operator]

Stop it now... there's no such thing as a 'EU' citizen.

 

You, like so many remainers are confusing the continent of Europe with the incontinent EU.

 

Next you'll be telling us that Mexicans are citizens of NAFTA!!

There is. For example me. Check the law. Pls. See? Here: https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate

[Rewulf]

Remainer EU citizen here. She is our elected leader - as I was told here a year ago- so we have to do as She says, unlike the unelected EU leaders...oh, no, they are the same. Politicians, CAN NOT be trusted from either side. Her speach doesn't contain anything concrete. Only empty promises/phrases. She is in a tight position, she won't be able please everyone. So, everyone gonna loath her. From each side. She hasn't offered the same rights to exisiting EU citizens living here at the moment. This could be done half a year ago. Also to fulfill existing financial commitments. (Contract). Negotiations won't go ahead until these are settled. EU wants these, UK wants trade, goods. This situation is called reality check. For all of us.

 

First off Mossberg ,you are a Hungarian citizen living in the UK, as there is no state or country of the EU , you cannot really be an EU citizen,you can be European if you wish to call yourself that.

If you no longer want to be Hungarian, apply for UK citizenship, youve been here long enough for there to be no issue with that.

 

Secondly, you are not a 'remainer' as you are not a UK citizen, you could not vote in the referendum (I hope) you are someone who would like to remain in the UK after we (eventually) leave, again no issue with that, you are a working man ,who has benefitted this country.

Ms May is not your elected leader, as you could not vote for her, in fact non of the electorate voted for her.

What they did vote for, was to leave the EU, its her job to make that happen, without dragging her heels, without paying stupid divorce 'bills' and without a watered down version of what the people voted for.

 

The Federal socialist state of Europe is the dream of people like Junker and Barnier, they dont want nations, or cultural identities, any sort of pride in your race or heritage.

They dont really want it to be a democracy either, imagine the type of communist dictatorship Hungary used to have, with a government of elites, secret police, shortages and crushing poverty ?

Thats what they are aspiring to, for every country in Europe.

I wont vote for that you say ? You wont get the chance !

I keep asking the question, how did we get to this point, where a trading bloc are telling us what to do ,politically, culturally and legally ?

A bloc who didnt even write in an exit plan for countries wanting to leave them within their constitution.

They are going to do it by stealth, bit by bit, until its too late to stop them.

Thats what you are supporting, a pathway back to the dark days of Eastern Europe in the 50 s and 60 s.

A broken economy propping up poor and failing nations, a broken currency, totally uncontrolled immigration from outside Europe, rampant political correctness causing hate and suspicion.

There is no peace and prosperity in that path.

[12gauge82]

There is. For example me. Check the law. Pls. See? Here: https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate

I think you've missed the point

 

First off Mossberg ,you are a Hungarian citizen living in the UK, as there is no state or country of the EU , you cannot really be an EU citizen,you can be European if you wish to call yourself that.

If you no longer want to be Hungarian, apply for UK citizenship, youve been here long enough for there to be no issue with that.

 

Secondly, you are not a 'remainer' as you are not a UK citizen, you could not vote in the referendum (I hope) you are someone who would like to remain in the UK after we (eventually) leave, again no issue with that, you are a working man ,who has benefitted this country.

Ms May is not your elected leader, as you could not vote for her, in fact non of the electorate voted for her.

What they did vote for, was to leave the EU, its her job to make that happen, without dragging her heels, without paying stupid divorce 'bills' and without a watered down version of what the people voted for.

 

The Federal socialist state of Europe is the dream of people like Junker and Barnier, they dont want nations, or cultural identities, any sort of pride in your race or heritage.

They dont really want it to be a democracy either, imagine the type of communist dictatorship Hungary used to have, with a government of elites, secret police, shortages and crushing poverty ?

Thats what they are aspiring to, for every country in Europe.

I wont vote for that you say ? You wont get the chance !

I keep asking the question, how did we get to this point, where a trading bloc are telling us what to do ,politically, culturally and legally ?

A bloc who didnt even write in an exit plan for countries wanting to leave them within their constitution.

They are going to do it by stealth, bit by bit, until its too late to stop them.

Thats what you are supporting, a pathway back to the dark days of Eastern Europe in the 50 s and 60 s.

A broken economy propping up poor and failing nations, a broken currency, totally uncontrolled immigration from outside Europe, rampant political correctness causing hate and suspicion.

There is no peace and prosperity in that path.

Excellent post, you could write for a paper with a piece like this.

[Newbie to this]

First off Mossberg ,you are a Hungarian citizen living in the UK, as there is no state or country of the EU , you cannot really be an EU citizen,you can be European if you wish to call yourself that.

If you no longer want to be Hungarian, apply for UK citizenship, youve been here long enough for there to be no issue with that.

 

Secondly, you are not a 'remainer' as you are not a UK citizen, you could not vote in the referendum (I hope) you are someone who would like to remain in the UK after we (eventually) leave, again no issue with that, you are a working man ,who has benefitted this country.

Ms May is not your elected leader, as you could not vote for her, in fact non of the electorate voted for her.

What they did vote for, was to leave the EU, its her job to make that happen, without dragging her heels, without paying stupid divorce 'bills' and without a watered down version of what the people voted for.

 

The Federal socialist state of Europe is the dream of people like Junker and Barnier, they dont want nations, or cultural identities, any sort of pride in your race or heritage.

They dont really want it to be a democracy either, imagine the type of communist dictatorship Hungary used to have, with a government of elites, secret police, shortages and crushing poverty ?

Thats what they are aspiring to, for every country in Europe.

I wont vote for that you say ? You wont get the chance !

I keep asking the question, how did we get to this point, where a trading bloc are telling us what to do ,politically, culturally and legally ?

A bloc who didnt even write in an exit plan for countries wanting to leave them within their constitution.

They are going to do it by stealth, bit by bit, until its too late to stop them.

Thats what you are supporting, a pathway back to the dark days of Eastern Europe in the 50 s and 60 s.

A broken economy propping up poor and failing nations, a broken currency, totally uncontrolled immigration from outside Europe, rampant political correctness causing hate and suspicion.

There is no peace and prosperity in that path.

Just about sums up the EU dictatorship.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

 

First off Mossberg ,you are a Hungarian citizen living in the UK, as there is no state or country of the EU , you cannot really be an EU citizen,you can be European if you wish to call yourself that.

If you no longer want to be Hungarian, apply for UK citizenship, youve been here long enough for there to be no issue with that.

 

Secondly, you are not a 'remainer' as you are not a UK citizen, you could not vote in the referendum (I hope) you are someone who would like to remain in the UK after we (eventually) leave, again no issue with that, you are a working man ,who has benefitted this country.

Ms May is not your elected leader, as you could not vote for her, in fact non of the electorate voted for her.

What they did vote for, was to leave the EU, its her job to make that happen, without dragging her heels, without paying stupid divorce 'bills' and without a watered down version of what the people voted for.

 

The Federal socialist state of Europe is the dream of people like Junker and Barnier, they dont want nations, or cultural identities, any sort of pride in your race or heritage.

They dont really want it to be a democracy either, imagine the type of communist dictatorship Hungary used to have, with a government of elites, secret police, shortages and crushing poverty ?

Thats what they are aspiring to, for every country in Europe.

I wont vote for that you say ? You wont get the chance !

I keep asking the question, how did we get to this point, where a trading bloc are telling us what to do ,politically, culturally and legally ?

A bloc who didnt even write in an exit plan for countries wanting to leave them within their constitution.

They are going to do it by stealth, bit by bit, until its too late to stop them.

Thats what you are supporting, a pathway back to the dark days of Eastern Europe in the 50 s and 60 s.

A broken economy propping up poor and failing nations, a broken currency, totally uncontrolled immigration from outside Europe, rampant political correctness causing hate and suspicion.

There is no peace and prosperity in that path.

 

Mossberg Operator,I think you asked for that!

[oowee]

 

Stop it now... there's no such thing as a 'EU' citizen.

 

You, like so many remainers are confusing the continent of Europe with the incontinent EU.

 

Next you'll be telling us that Mexicans are citizens of NAFTA!!

Brilliant

[Savhmr]

Woke up to the news of what was in the Florence Speech this morning and feel utterly betrayed by Mrs May. I knew that she was always a closet "Remainer" but to stab 17.4m of the electorate who voted to leave in the back like she has is both insulting and a disgrace. There need not be any transitional extended deal because it won't ultimately change the deal that we're offered. the unpalatable truth is that it is one way that the EU socialist dictatorship centred in Brussels can extract much of their claimed 80 or 90 Billion Euros from us through the back door, without any recognition of our share of EU assets, which lets not forget totals to many Billions in itself.

 

What sort of leadership has she demonstrated by selling us all down the river? We are at the behest and under the control of the EU dictatorship for an extended period, having now to accept things including free movement, extensions to payments plus a divorce settlement, and having to accept sovereignty control by the EU in the form of the ECJ. It's an utter disgrace, and I'm highly surprised that there haven't been riots outside of Parliament this morning.

 

Farage had it right when he commented that May has voted for the political class elite, not for the public majority concsensus and wishes. That woman needs to be removed asap. As far as I'm concerned, she's as much a traitor to national sovereignty and democracy as Bliar was. Not a happy bunny

Edited September 23, 2017 by Savhmr

[Scully]

 

First off Mossberg ,you are a Hungarian citizen living in the UK, as there is no state or country of the EU , you cannot really be an EU citizen,you can be European if you wish to call yourself that.

If you no longer want to be Hungarian, apply for UK citizenship, youve been here long enough for there to be no issue with that.

 

Secondly, you are not a 'remainer' as you are not a UK citizen, you could not vote in the referendum (I hope) you are someone who would like to remain in the UK after we (eventually) leave, again no issue with that, you are a working man ,who has benefitted this country.

Ms May is not your elected leader, as you could not vote for her, in fact non of the electorate voted for her.

What they did vote for, was to leave the EU, its her job to make that happen, without dragging her heels, without paying stupid divorce 'bills' and without a watered down version of what the people voted for.

 

The Federal socialist state of Europe is the dream of people like Junker and Barnier, they dont want nations, or cultural identities, any sort of pride in your race or heritage.

They dont really want it to be a democracy either, imagine the type of communist dictatorship Hungary used to have, with a government of elites, secret police, shortages and crushing poverty ?

Thats what they are aspiring to, for every country in Europe.

I wont vote for that you say ? You wont get the chance !

I keep asking the question, how did we get to this point, where a trading bloc are telling us what to do ,politically, culturally and legally ?

A bloc who didnt even write in an exit plan for countries wanting to leave them within their constitution.

They are going to do it by stealth, bit by bit, until its too late to stop them.

Thats what you are supporting, a pathway back to the dark days of Eastern Europe in the 50 s and 60 s.

A broken economy propping up poor and failing nations, a broken currency, totally uncontrolled immigration from outside Europe, rampant political correctness causing hate and suspicion.

There is no peace and prosperity in that path.

Really enjoyed reading that. Thankyou. 👍

[mossberg-operator]

First off Mossberg ,you are a Hungarian citizen living in the UK, as there is no state or country of the EU , you cannot really be an EU citizen,you can be European if you wish to call yourself that.

If you no longer want to be Hungarian, apply for UK citizenship, youve been here long enough for there to be no issue with that.

 

Secondly, you are not a 'remainer' as you are not a UK citizen, you could not vote in the referendum (I hope) you are someone who would like to remain in the UK after we (eventually) leave, again no issue with that, you are a working man ,who has benefitted this country.

Ms May is not your elected leader, as you could not vote for her, in fact non of the electorate voted for her.

What they did vote for, was to leave the EU, its her job to make that happen, without dragging her heels, without paying stupid divorce 'bills' and without a watered down version of what the people voted for.

 

The Federal socialist state of Europe is the dream of people like Junker and Barnier, they dont want nations, or cultural identities, any sort of pride in your race or heritage.

They dont really want it to be a democracy either, imagine the type of communist dictatorship Hungary used to have, with a government of elites, secret police, shortages and crushing poverty ?

Thats what they are aspiring to, for every country in Europe.

I wont vote for that you say ? You wont get the chance !

I keep asking the question, how did we get to this point, where a trading bloc are telling us what to do ,politically, culturally and legally ?

A bloc who didnt even write in an exit plan for countries wanting to leave them within their constitution.

They are going to do it by stealth, bit by bit, until its too late to stop them.

Thats what you are supporting, a pathway back to the dark days of Eastern Europe in the 50 s and 60 s.

A broken economy propping up poor and failing nations, a broken currency, totally uncontrolled immigration from outside Europe, rampant political correctness causing hate and suspicion.

There is no peace and prosperity in that path.

I think we disagree in a few points. If there is no EU citizen, why the UK gov website using this term? I like the idea of the EU. Not perfect. You can not compare a communist dictatorship to the EU (or the future EU). I have my opinion, You have yours. I respect that. Also obey the law, Brexit but campaigning against it. It is my right. Peace.

[12gauge82]

If there is no EU citizen, why the UK gov website using this term?

Because that is part of the EUs objective, to silently seep into every single part of members country's way of life until you can't untangle them, at which point your doomed and we become part of the EU super state with joint currency, army and eventually one single government run by unelected lunatics.

[mossberg-operator]

Mossberg Operator,I think you asked for that!

Not having a problem with this post. Only disagreeing here and there...

[Newbie to this]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200165

 

Get signing, not that it'll make a difference.

[Savhmr]

I think we disagree in a few points. If there is no EU citizen, why the UK gov website using this term? I like the idea of the EU. Not perfect. You can not compare a communist dictatorship to the EU (or the future EU). I have my opinion, You have yours. I respect that. Also obey the law, Brexit but campaigning against it. It is my right. Peace.

 

 

It doesn't matter what term that the UK government use, Rewulf is right in that there is no such thing as an "EU Citizen" since the EU, by definition, is a European Union, an ideology with a European Parliament to oversea and ratify "member state" decisions, NOT a national identity since there's no such thing as a European Union nation. That term in itself, "Member State" is an insidious term, coined by Brussels as an attempt to rid European Nations (note that I didn't say EU States) of their national identities and as such, is rejected by all those who value their cultural heritage, including a majority of us Brits. We are not, nor never have been citizens of one united European superstate, nor will we ever be such. You speak for yourself, not UK citizens. If you wish to describe yourself as a citizen who doesn't exactly exist, that is your prerogative and good luck.

 

Most of us in the UK do NOT like the idea of the EU, or rather, what the EU has become. I'm old enough to remember us getting into the EU when it was called the Common Market, a sensible trading block made up of European Countries (not "States") with the wish to trade more efficiently with closer ties, a degree of harmonisation of certain fiscal arrangements. It was originally brought about though, post WW2 by a union of 6 countries to regulate production of steel and coal industries in 1951, ratified under the Treaty of Paris. It grew from there to a Common Market which GB signed up to in 1973 and was always only intended as a joint trading block.

 

Unfortunately, it was hijacked by the original socialist ideologists with their vision for a political and fiscal union of countries, called the European Union, in which the original aim was always to gain sovereign, legal and cultural control over all "member states" , something which the utterly blinkered today are only just waking up to, but which has long since been planned and known about. The Common Market became the European Economic Community, which then became the EC (European Community)....see what they did there? They dropped the "Economic" bit, and once GB woke up to the fact that the ECU was a total flop and failure, so opted out, the EC became the EU, as far removed from the Common Market as it is possible to have come. The excuse that we always knew what were signing up to is complete Hogswash. Democracy has been abandoned bit by bit with every stage made towards a United States of Europe.

 

Despite what some analysts claim, GB puts in more than it gets out, and has been doing for some time. Currently, the EU trading nations account for only 12% of the global trading economy. It's peanuts, so why on earth would we want to stay in harmonisation with this, when we are free to trade with any other nation on earth under our own negotiated trade agreements free of Brussels rule and interference? They'll NEVER accept any one nation taking the lead with overseas trade if by doing so it, in their eyes, damages the socialist economic agenda of the Union as a whole; make no mistake about that.

 

So you see Mr Mossberg-operator, you are completely wrong in your assertions and the EU most certainly IS a failing socialist driven project which shares far more similarities of ideology with a communist dictatorship than any British hopes of returning to a nationalist sovereign government free to paddle their own canoe, however one may like to pick holes in our own democratic process.

 

Despite what you may like to think, you actually have no rights, zip, zero, to campaign against something that you have no right to have a vote in, so therefore you have no say. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions of course, but please don't insult us by claiming that you have any formal say in the BREXIT process at all, because you don't. You are not a British citizen, you have no voting rights, as has already been pointed out to you.

 

What some folk, including your good self, just don't seem to grasp, is that GB wants to have a fair and equitable, and friendly relationship with all of our European neighbours. We have respect for all European nations and nationals, and value you as much as you value us, one reason no doubt why you are working in the UK and contributing to its economy. What we no longer wish for, nor will have, is any part of a failed Union project which seeks to federalise all member nations into one superstate. Junkers is completely barmy and his notions of a federal super-army, federal centralised controlling bank, federal over-reaching parliament with member nations stripped of all judicial powers, and with total socialist federal control will never happen. hell will freeze over first and we're not the only ones who believe that.

 

As far as keeping the peace goes, it is NATO who have been the principle deterrent against encroachments from Russia and Middle Eastern hostile states, NOT the UN nor the EU. Far from bringing peace, the EU are currently sowing discord amongst nations, persecuting any ideology of national identity, persecuting any Christian basis of national identity, and rattling the cage to wake up the Russian Bear by providing the provocation that resulted in the infringements of Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula. The EU lack wisdom and wise judgement. They are arrogant and have a vastly over-inflated sense of "self". They will be the ones to start trouble in a wider European continent and then be incapable of preventing the melt-down which follows. A united NATO, properly funded by National governments has always been a far more sensible arrangement than any sense of a European Armed Forces which is doomed to failure from the start.

 

A strong dose of reality is needed my friend before you post such as you have.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Savhmr

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I think we disagree in a few points. If there is no EU citizen, why the UK gov website using this term? I like the idea of the EU. Not perfect. You can not compare a communist dictatorship to the EU (or the future EU). I have my opinion, You have yours. I respect that. Also obey the law, Brexit but campaigning against it. It is my right. Peace.

 

Why-ever not, we get about the same amount of input as we might in a communist state.

[mossberg-operator]

It doesn't matter what term that the UK government use, Rewulf is right in that there is no such thing as an "EU Citizen" since the EU, by definition, is a European Union, an ideology with a European Parliament to oversea and ratify "member state" decisions, NOT a national identity since there's no such thing as a European Union nation. That term in itself, "Member State" is an insidious term, coined by Brussels as an attempt to rid European Nations (note that I didn't say EU States) of their national identities and as such, is rejected by all those who value their cultural heritage, including a majority of us Brits. We are not, nor never have been citizens of one united European superstate, nor will we ever be such. You speak for yourself, not UK citizens. If you wish to describe yourself as a citizen who doesn't exactly exist, that is your prerogative and good luck.

 

Most of us in the UK do NOT like the idea of the EU, or rather, what the EU has become. I'm old enough to remember us getting into the EU when it was called the Common Market, a sensible trading block made up of European Countries (not "States") with the wish to trade more efficiently with closer ties, a degree of harmonisation of certain fiscal arrangements. It was originally brought about though, post WW2 by a union of 6 countries to regulate production of steel and coal industries in 1951, ratified under the Treaty of Paris. It grew from there to a Common Market which GB signed up to in 1973 and was always only intended as a joint trading block.

 

Unfortunately, it was hijacked by the original socialist ideologists with their vision for a political and fiscal union of countries, called the European Union, in which the original aim was always to gain sovereign, legal and cultural control over all "member states" , something which the utterly blinkered today are only just waking up to, but which has long since been planned and known about. The Common Market became the European Economic Community, which then became the EC (European Community)....see what they did there? They dropped the "Economic" bit, and once GB woke up to the fact that the ECU was a total flop and failure, so opted out, the EC became the EU, as far removed from the Common Market as it is possible to have come. The excuse that we always knew what were signing up to is complete Hogswash. Democracy has been abandoned bit by bit with every stage made towards a United States of Europe.

 

Despite what some analysts claim, GB puts in more than it gets out, and has been doing for some time. Currently, the EU trading nations account for only 12% of the global trading economy. It's peanuts, so why on earth would we want to stay in harmonisation with this, when we are free to trade with any other nation on earth under our own negotiated trade agreements free of Brussels rule and interference? They'll NEVER accept any one nation taking the lead with overseas trade if by doing so it, in their eyes, damages the socialist economic agenda of the Union as a whole; make no mistake about that.

 

So you see Mr Mossberg-operator, you are completely wrong in your assertions and the EU most certainly IS a failing socialist driven project which shares far more similarities of ideology with a communist dictatorship than any British hopes of returning to a nationalist sovereign government free to paddle their own canoe, however one may like to pick holes in our own democratic process.

 

Despite what you may like to think, you actually have no rights, zip, zero, to campaign against something that you have no right to have a vote in, so therefore you have no say. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions of course, but please don't insult us by claiming that you have any formal say in the BREXIT process at all, because you don't. You are not a British citizen, you have no voting rights, as has already been pointed out to you.

 

What some folk, including your good self, just don't seem to grasp, is that GB wants to have a fair and equitable, and friendly relationship with all of our European neighbours. We have respect for all European nations and nationals, and value you as much as you value us, one reason no doubt why you are working in the UK and contributing to its economy. What we no longer wish for, nor will have, is any part of a failed Union project which seeks to federalise all member nations into one superstate. Junkers is completely barmy and his notions of a federal super-army, federal centralised controlling bank, federal over-reaching parliament with member nations stripped of all judicial powers, and with total socialist federal control will never happen. hell will freeze over first and we're not the only ones who believe that.

 

As far as keeping the peace goes, it is NATO who have been the principle deterrent against encroachments from Russia and Middle Eastern hostile states, NOT the UN nor the EU. Far from bringing peace, the EU are currently sowing discord amongst nations, persecuting any ideology of national identity, persecuting any Christian basis of national identity, and rattling the cage to wake up the Russian Bear by providing the provocation that resulted in the infringements of Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula. The EU lack wisdom and wise judgement. They are arrogant and have a vastly over-inflated sense of "self". They will be the ones to start trouble in a wider European continent and then be incapable of preventing the melt-down which follows. A united NATO, properly funded by National governments has always been a far more sensible arrangement than any sense of a European Armed Forces which is doomed to failure from the start.

 

A strong dose of reality is needed my friend before you post such as you have.

You have some valid points in the history of the Common Market, I give You that. I understand that independence is a fundamental thing for the UK. Always has been. Always will be. However my opinion is different on the EU''s future. Time will tell how was right. My friend.

[Danger-Mouse]

You have some valid points in the history of the Common Market, I give You that. I understand that independence is a fundamental thing for the UK. Always has been. Always will be. However my opinion is different on the EU''s future. Time will tell how was right. My friend.

 

“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”

 

"The EU is the old Soviet Union dressed in Western clothes."

Every country should conduct its own reforms, should develop its own model, taking into account the experience of other countries, whether close neighbours or far away countries.

Mikhail Gorbachev

Clever fellow Gorbachev.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Danger-Mouse

[mossberg-operator]

Why-ever not, we get about the same amount of input as we might in a communist state.

Examples from my family's history for a communist dictatorship (which are I believe not true about the EU): For being a land owner (100ha), grandfather 2yrs prison, great grandfather beaten to death in prison, all land/house/everything confestigated/nationalised, other grandfather still POW in the Urals 2 yrs after the war ended (5yrs in total from Stalingrad), elections 1 candidate only, living in fear, black listed for life, no freedom of speech, etc. Any of these happening now? Edited September 23, 2017 by mossberg-operator

[poontang]

I like the idea of the EU. Not perfect.

 

What do you like about it? Maybe more importantly, as you say it's not perfect, what would you change?

 

I'm genuinely interested.

[Yellow Bear]

Examples from my family's history for a communist dictatorship (which are I believe not true about the EU): For being a land owner (100ha), grandfather 2yrs prison, great grandfather beaten to death in prison, all land/house/everything confestigated/nationalised, other grandfather still POW in the Urals 2 yrs after the war ended (5yrs in total from Stalingrad), elections 1 candidate only, living in fear, black listed for life, no freedom of speech, etc. Any of these happening now?

Not yet but it is moving that way!

[mossberg-operator]

What do you like about it? Maybe more importantly, as you say it's not perfect, what would you change?

 

I'm genuinely interested.

Like: Main thing is freedom, we never had that... belonging, we are working for the same, common goal as Europe. What would I change: gun laws, less corruption and bureaucracy, more freedom on state level decisions.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Examples from my family's history for a communist dictatorship (which are I believe not true about the EU): For being a land owner (100ha), grandfather 2yrs prison, great grandfather beaten to death in prison, all land/house/everything confestigated/nationalised, other grandfather still POW in the Urals 2 yrs after the war ended (5yrs in total from Stalingrad), elections 1 candidate only, living in fear, black listed for life, no freedom of speech, etc. Any of these happening now?

 

No, you seem to believe communism stopped 50 years ago. I presume that is why you came to the UK to get away from it, when did you arrive?

Edited September 23, 2017 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Newbie to this]

It doesn't matter what term that the UK government use, Rewulf is right in that there is no such thing as an "EU Citizen" since the EU, by definition, is a European Union, an ideology with a European Parliament to oversea and ratify "member state" decisions, NOT a national identity since there's no such thing as a European Union nation. That term in itself, "Member State" is an insidious term, coined by Brussels as an attempt to rid European Nations (note that I didn't say EU States) of their national identities and as such, is rejected by all those who value their cultural heritage, including a majority of us Brits. We are not, nor never have been citizens of one united European superstate, nor will we ever be such. You speak for yourself, not UK citizens. If you wish to describe yourself as a citizen who doesn't exactly exist, that is your prerogative and good luck.

 

Most of us in the UK do NOT like the idea of the EU, or rather, what the EU has become. I'm old enough to remember us getting into the EU when it was called the Common Market, a sensible trading block made up of European Countries (not "States") with the wish to trade more efficiently with closer ties, a degree of harmonisation of certain fiscal arrangements. It was originally brought about though, post WW2 by a union of 6 countries to regulate production of steel and coal industries in 1951, ratified under the Treaty of Paris. It grew from there to a Common Market which GB signed up to in 1973 and was always only intended as a joint trading block.

 

Unfortunately, it was hijacked by the original socialist ideologists with their vision for a political and fiscal union of countries, called the European Union, in which the original aim was always to gain sovereign, legal and cultural control over all "member states" , something which the utterly blinkered today are only just waking up to, but which has long since been planned and known about. The Common Market became the European Economic Community, which then became the EC (European Community)....see what they did there? They dropped the "Economic" bit, and once GB woke up to the fact that the ECU was a total flop and failure, so opted out, the EC became the EU, as far removed from the Common Market as it is possible to have come. The excuse that we always knew what were signing up to is complete Hogswash. Democracy has been abandoned bit by bit with every stage made towards a United States of Europe.

 

Despite what some analysts claim, GB puts in more than it gets out, and has been doing for some time. Currently, the EU trading nations account for only 12% of the global trading economy. It's peanuts, so why on earth would we want to stay in harmonisation with this, when we are free to trade with any other nation on earth under our own negotiated trade agreements free of Brussels rule and interference? They'll NEVER accept any one nation taking the lead with overseas trade if by doing so it, in their eyes, damages the socialist economic agenda of the Union as a whole; make no mistake about that.

 

So you see Mr Mossberg-operator, you are completely wrong in your assertions and the EU most certainly IS a failing socialist driven project which shares far more similarities of ideology with a communist dictatorship than any British hopes of returning to a nationalist sovereign government free to paddle their own canoe, however one may like to pick holes in our own democratic process.

 

Despite what you may like to think, you actually have no rights, zip, zero, to campaign against something that you have no right to have a vote in, so therefore you have no say. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions of course, but please don't insult us by claiming that you have any formal say in the BREXIT process at all, because you don't. You are not a British citizen, you have no voting rights, as has already been pointed out to you.

 

What some folk, including your good self, just don't seem to grasp, is that GB wants to have a fair and equitable, and friendly relationship with all of our European neighbours. We have respect for all European nations and nationals, and value you as much as you value us, one reason no doubt why you are working in the UK and contributing to its economy. What we no longer wish for, nor will have, is any part of a failed Union project which seeks to federalise all member nations into one superstate. Junkers is completely barmy and his notions of a federal super-army, federal centralised controlling bank, federal over-reaching parliament with member nations stripped of all judicial powers, and with total socialist federal control will never happen. hell will freeze over first and we're not the only ones who believe that.

 

As far as keeping the peace goes, it is NATO who have been the principle deterrent against encroachments from Russia and Middle Eastern hostile states, NOT the UN nor the EU. Far from bringing peace, the EU are currently sowing discord amongst nations, persecuting any ideology of national identity, persecuting any Christian basis of national identity, and rattling the cage to wake up the Russian Bear by providing the provocation that resulted in the infringements of Ukraine and the Crimean Peninsula. The EU lack wisdom and wise judgement. They are arrogant and have a vastly over-inflated sense of "self". They will be the ones to start trouble in a wider European continent and then be incapable of preventing the melt-down which follows. A united NATO, properly funded by National governments has always been a far more sensible arrangement than any sense of a European Armed Forces which is doomed to failure from the start.

 

A strong dose of reality is needed my friend before you post such as you have.

Great post

[mossberg-operator]

No, you seem to believe communism stopped 50 years ago. I presume that is why you came to the UK to get away from it, when did you arrive?

2002.