Gerry78 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 I Stand by with what i posted steel in my opinion wounds more birds than lead id class myself as a half descent shot after years of duck hunting ive tried plenty of brands.People read information of cartridge companies regards steel shot then think there experts in the field i myself get out and test the shot on wildfowl But as i said its only my Opinion not getting at anyone on forum but Motty shot going right through a bird can miss vital organs in steel ive seen it happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Ask yourself why cartridge companies tell you to drop a size or two down when using steel Also many firearms dealers will tell you the same thing Steel dosent have the stopping power lead has We all know the reason why the lead ban was brought in regards lead shot in the water the ducks were eating it and getting it in there gizzards bad for human consumption etc Many older fowlers i shoot with could shot out to 50 yards when using the proper cartridge in lead shot before the ban NOW they say 30 till 40 yards with steel depending on shot size etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Sorry Gerry but you are very misguided steel is an efficient shot type it kills just as good as any other type of shot of any specific gravity within its physical capabilities, your or others inability to perform the simple tasks of evaluating its performance in your gun and making sure you use steel within the perimeters its capable of is hardly the fault of steel. These same basic principles apply to any shot type any density and that includes LEAD. People cripple birds and animals not shot types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Lancer425 im not saying steel is rubbish what im pointing out in my view and many guns i fowl with is steel is not as good as lead for duck Nothing to do with gun or choke ive shot plenty of duck with clean kills using steel AS i said earlier its just are views many years of fowling on the marsh and loughs in Northern Ireland :good:The only reason steel was chosen for cartridge companies for duck as its the cheapest alternative to lead compared to Bismuth and Tungsten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted September 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 simple test put aboard up at 40 yards and fire a steel cartridge of your choice at it then do the same with lead and compare which one gives better penetration my money is on lead I have shot on driven duck days with steel quite frequently and the number birds which are hit and fly on to the pond only to be picked up wounded is usually very high I pattern test all my shotguns with carts quite regularly including my 10 bore and 8 bore so I know how they are performing at 40 yard and my 10 and 8 at 60 yards I find steel far less reliable than lead hence the reason why I have jus purchased 2 slabs of bismuth for the next day in October Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Given that you're choice on loads was limited due to the wad issue, this feels like a good decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Thanks ROOSTSHOOTER my views are the same as yours im sure that lad who opened the post is sorry he started it LOL Anyway hope everyone has a good season once the Migrant birds start arriving colder weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 In real terms ducks and geese 12ga and 10ga about the max you can get and be close enough for debate here from steel on lets say geese is 60yards and Lead about another ten yards. So without you are shooting over 60 yards Steel is equal to lead no matter what the charts and periodic table says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Gerry, read through the posts again. Your views are not the same as roostshooter's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Many older fowlers i shoot with could shot out to 50 yards when using the proper cartridge in lead shot before the ban NOW they say 30 till 40 yards with steel depending on shot size etcAnd one of the many components of a successful shot is Our mind/brain eg people can be talked out of a shot before they pull the trigger. Without stating numbers etc i shoot a lot of Duck and Geese each season 99.9% of the time using Steel shot and at ranges i did with lead. I'm repeating a true fact now. A few years ago and Steel doubting shooter i took some of his Tungsten cartridges reloaded with Steel and primers I'd marked with tipex Shock horror he killed cleanly Pink's that morning with the useless steel shot 😂😂 Any shot has to be put in the right place regardless of type. And i don't do this you need to drop 2 sizes bull Pattern AND Penetration kill not one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 Remember there are approaching two generations of waterfowlers who have never known lead and steel will have been their staple shot type, these same Wildfowlers will use lead in other forms of shooting and look at the same old Pro lead reasoning with dismay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) I've shot steel for a number of years and at normal ranges it does the job so long as you pick a shot size that suits. Only when you start to push the range does it start to become inadequate to other more dense choices. Cost is the main factor,plenty of heavyshot carts are available if your willing to pay. If you can take your steel carts on some clays and see how they perform. With decent 3" loads I get more muzzle flip so can easily shoot high over the top missing, also found there fast compared to lead on close ducks teal over splashes so missing in front is easy too. Getting to know how your gun and you perform with a steel cart is key. I too thought motty,s earlier post was spot on and not taking the urine as I find gamebore steel carts to be good and it's usually my shooting that lets them down,the Silver Steel are an odd one with punctured primers and split cases. By the description there over pressure. Edited September 28, 2017 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry78 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Motty ive read through my posts my view is steel dosent have the stopping power as lead as i said earlier its just my view ive obviously been using steel since the ban came in gotten plenty of duck with it using gamebore steel MY WHOLE POINT HERE IS[ I THINK ] IT CAUSES MORE WOUNDING THAN LEAD just my thoughts right or wrong im sure we could debate this till christmas lol BUT great forum for a debate LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 wish I aint said nothing now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberFowl Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) wish I aint said nothing now😂I believe steel is as good at consistently cleanly killing if the man behind the gun does his part Edited September 28, 2017 by AberFowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaddy525 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Shoot stuff up the front end and any cartridge will suffice. I have shot geese at good ranges with steel 34g 4's stone dead, and then have wounded geese a lot closer with 46g of 4mm powershot - if you can put a decent pattern into the front half of the bird it will fall down dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Shoot stuff up the front end and any cartridge will suffice. I have shot geese at good ranges with steel 34g 4's stone dead, and then have wounded geese a lot closer with 46g of 4mm powershot - if you can put a decent pattern into the front half of the bird it will fall down dead.👏👏 100% correct 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraai Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 👏👏 100% correct 👍90% is the man behind the gun and 10% is the cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Motty ive read through my posts my view is steel dosent have the stopping power as lead as i said earlier its just my view ive obviously been using steel since the ban came in gotten plenty of duck with it using gamebore steel MY WHOLE POINT HERE IS[ I THINK ] IT CAUSES MORE WOUNDING THAN LEAD just my thoughts right or wrong im sure we could debate this till christmas lol BUT great forum for a debate LOL If you are shooting like for like loads 36 g of 4 steel to 36g of 4 lead at 1200fps same gun you will be over 40 yards before you see steel start to lose out, and the 4 lead despite having more energy will be down on pellet count compared to the steel. Not until you are in the upper limits of range does lead start to come good increasing the size of steel restores the balance on energy and narrows the gap even further. The debate could go on until Christmas but the advantages lead has over steel is much less than many perseve it to be and in the big outdoors away from charts and theorys Steel holds its own very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraai Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I dont know if you can find them overthere but the new gamebore dark storm steel 30gr nr 4 is a real great cartridge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I love a good debate. Can somebody answer me this; if steel shot travels through a bird, in what way can that be a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Pass troughs are not a bad thing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraai Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 I love a good debate. Can somebody answer me this; if steel shot travels through a bird, in what way can that be a bad thing? If steel have no energy like some people say how can it pass troug a bird 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Energy density. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Ask yourself why cartridge companies tell you to drop a size or two down when using steel Also many firearms dealers will tell you the same thing Steel dosent have the stopping power lead has We all know the reason why the lead ban was brought in regards lead shot in the water the ducks were eating it and getting it in there gizzards bad for human consumption etc Many older fowlers i shoot with could shot out to 50 yards when using the proper cartridge in lead shot before the ban NOW they say 30 till 40 yards with steel depending on shot size etc Surely you mean go up a size or two in steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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