nagantino Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 A cf pistol is a 100 % anti personnel gun.it has no hunting or sporting use in my opinion . And surely practising with them is to prepare for shooting people . I'm all for supporting other shooting sports and dont agree with the proposed ban on 50. Cal in the UK . I spent all day yesterday shooting Revolver and pistol and not one of us was "preparing to shoot people". If I hurry I can go out again today with some more decent blokes who shoot cf handguns, bring their own sandwiches, tell tall stories and try hard to beat their friends score in competition. If gun owners are only too willing to join the anti gun lobby then you have every right to be apprehensive for the future. I live in Norhern Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Out of interest how come NI does not have same gun laws as uk and again out of interest how does NI gun related crime with handguns compare with England (now not historically) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 The notion that pistol practise is practise for shooting people is entirely ridiculous, and not one the government shares judging by the people still practising pistol shooting in the UK. We shot targets of many descriptions as handgun owners; not once did it cross my mind I was practising for shooting people. The suggestion is ludicrous and somewhat insulting. I would suggest the reason the government are considering banning the .50 cal is more to do with the fear ( greatly misplaced ) that there is a potential for people being shot from great range rather than its capacity of being used in a bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) Out of interest how come NI does not have same gun laws as uk and again out of interest how does NI gun related crime with handguns compare with England (now not historically) Are you talking legally held handguns or illegally acquired. ? Handguns are strictly controlled in the Republic of Ireland. I am sure the guys in the photos did not hold the firearms they had just used to murder a man in a Dublin hotel legally. The Republic of Ireland is the deadliest place to live in the Irish and British isles - startling new figures have confirmed. An Independent.ie analysis of homicide rates over the last decade reveals that you are almost six times more likely to be shot and killed in the 26 counties as you are in England/Wales. And, contrary to popular belief, the gun homicide rate in the Irish Republic was more than double that of Northern Ireland for the ten years from 2005 to 2015. I have to admit . I agree with the UK pistol ban . Why.? Edited October 29, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I am talking general gun crime so both legal and illegal handguns. Just trying to get an idea if a country with legally held handguns are statistically more or less likely to have crimes committed with handguns than countries with a ban in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I am talking general gun crime so both legal and illegal handguns. Just trying to get an idea if a country with legally held handguns are statistically more or less likely to have crimes committed with handguns than countries with a ban in place There have being no incidents with legally owned handguns that i am aware of in Northern Ireland since the handgun ban came into place in the rest of the UK. The ban only stops law abiding citizens owning certain firearms not criminals. Unlike other parts of the UK certain political parties in Northern Ireland fought the handgun ban, maybe their experience showed that legally owned guns are not the problem but people willing and able to obtain them illegally and use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 There have being no incidents with legally owned handguns that i am aware of in Northern Ireland since the handgun ban came into place in the rest of the UK. The ban only stops law abiding citizens owning certain firearms not criminals. Unlike other parts of the UK certain political parties in Northern Ireland fought the handgun ban, maybe their experience showed that legally owned guns are not the problem but people willing and able to obtain them illegally and use them. As I thought. One has to wonder if the perpetrators of those heinous offences carried out in UK with legally held handguns would have committed the same offence with other methods had the guns not been available. I suspect the answer is yes they would. As far as I can tell there has been no drop in gun crime since the ban. Therefore all that happened was law abiding firearms holders were shafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buze Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I think we should differentiate the full terrorist grade or 'criminal' gang grade -- these guys WILL get weapons, regardless of bans... we all know that, black market, black money etc etc... What the ban prevents is someone who is NOT a terrorist or criminal having access to so much weaponry that he can ends up killing 50+ people just because he just flips, one day. A ban *will* prevent that guy from doing it. or doing it so 'efficiently'. A handgun is just too easy to access, conceil, lose, steal etc; also, 'magazine' based handguns might not have the range, but would allow someome who 'flips' to kill a large number of people. That's why I also agree that the handgun ban was a good idea. the argument 'oh yeah but if you like guns you must protect ALL gun ownership otherwise they'll come for yours' doesn't stand for me -- nope, quite frankly I can't understand owning an AR15 or an AK47, or handguns. If I want to practice on targets I can use from an air pistol, air rifle, quite a few calibers of rifle to access targets and game at incredible distances, without needing war weapons or a pistol that were designed to kill people, not game/cardboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) I think we should differentiate the full terrorist grade or 'criminal' gang grade -- these guys WILL get weapons, regardless of bans... we all know that, black market, black money etc etc... What the ban prevents is someone who is NOT a terrorist or criminal having access to so much weaponry that he can ends up killing 50+ people just because he just flips, one day. A ban *will* prevent that guy from doing it. or doing it so 'efficiently'. A handgun is just too easy to access, conceil, lose, steal etc; also, 'magazine' based handguns might not have the range, but would allow someome who 'flips' to kill a large number of people. That's why I also agree that the handgun ban was a good idea. the argument 'oh yeah but if you like guns you must protect ALL gun ownership otherwise they'll come for yours' doesn't stand for me -- nope, quite frankly I can't understand owning an AR15 or an AK47, or handguns. If I want to practice on targets I can use from an air pistol, air rifle, quite a few calibers of rifle to access targets and game at incredible distances, without needing war weapons or a pistol that were designed to kill people, not game/cardboard. Military rifles are designed to kill people, Lee Enfield rifles for example would you ban them. Mad Minute from a SMLE- 10 Shots in 6.5 Second. follow your logic and we would all be shooting air guns. What firearms do you approve of. ? Edited October 29, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted October 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 A cf pistol is a 100 % anti personnel gun.it has no hunting or sporting use in my opinion . And surely practising with them is to prepare for shooting people . I'm all for supporting other shooting sports and dont agree with the proposed ban on 50. Cal in the UK . +1 we trained with pistols and there was only one reason, to kill. I agree that there has to be a line drawn and a clear distinction between sporting guns and weapons otherwise where would it end? Private ownership of fully automatic weapons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) +1 we trained with pistols and there was only one reason, to kill. I agree that there has to be a line drawn and a clear distinction between sporting guns and weapons otherwise where would it end? Private ownership of fully automatic weapons? Is training / practising with a military rifle Lee Enfield etc training to kill someone. Are people that shoot pistols in the Olympic games training to kill someone. ? People train with pistols to do their best in competitions, nothing to do with killing people. Edited October 29, 2017 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squinting shot Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 The majority would ban all firearms as they see no use for them or care not if our enjoyment and hobbies are taken away as it's not something they do themselves. Careful how they are whittled away, don't need to turn on ourselves. Totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Is training / practising with a military rifle Lee Enfield etc training to kill someone. Are people that shoot pistols in the Olympic games training to kill someone. ? People train with pistols to do their best in competitions, nothing to do with killing people. Exactly 👍 I find it odd that any licensed shooter can be in agreement with banning ANY type of gun, its a slippery slope to a total ban. At which point I move to France, for good 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) Doesnt say where the statistics come from? Numbers could be totally unreliable. Edited October 29, 2017 by wildfowler.250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) Because a particular shooting discipline doesn't appeal to me I'm content to see that banned. So long as I can justify what I do I don't care about what anyone else does.That is is essentially what is being said by a number of shooters and contributors to this forum.That saddens me greatly. Not only that they are prepared to throw their fellow sportsmen and women under the bus to suit their own agenda, but also because they promote the perputation of ignorance and emotional rhetoric above any sort of objective consideration. Edited October 29, 2017 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screamingdead Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I fail to understand the attitude of some people on this thread. Unless we all stand together, who will support you when the only firearm allowed in public ownership is a section 2 shotgun and the legislators decide that should be prohibited - after all clay pigeon shooting is just practicing to kill live animals and what's the point in that..........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy189 Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I can't believe that i'm hearing some of these anti gun arguements on this forum. I've heard 'weapons of war', 'i agree with bans on AR15's and AK varients'. What the hell is and isn't or hasn't been a weapon of war? By that logic a musket is a weapon of war and ought to be banned... yet they're not, and funnily enough many types are completely legal without any kind of licence (as far as I'm aware, at least) Can people stop using 'AR15' OR 'AK' as a justification on the evilness of that certain firearm? Other than calibre there isn't all that much difference between that and a M&p 22 or a Ruger 10/22. Are they not viable firearms? As many have mentioned, there's been little to no change in the amount of gun crime prevented by these bans, on the contrary, illegal use has continued. Where is the logic? No wonder americans fight so hard against any change. We gave some in the 20's and 30's and steadily lost our rights and privelidges from then on out. You're entitled to an opinion, but that doesnt mean you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I think we should differentiate the full terrorist grade or 'criminal' gang grade -- these guys WILL get weapons, regardless of bans... we all know that, black market, black money etc etc... What the ban prevents is someone who is NOT a terrorist or criminal having access to so much weaponry that he can ends up killing 50+ people just because he just flips, one day. A ban *will* prevent that guy from doing it. or doing it so 'efficiently'. A handgun is just too easy to access, conceil, lose, steal etc; also, 'magazine' based handguns might not have the range, but would allow someome who 'flips' to kill a large number of people. That's why I also agree that the handgun ban was a good idea. the argument 'oh yeah but if you like guns you must protect ALL gun ownership otherwise they'll come for yours' doesn't stand for me -- nope, quite frankly I can't understand owning an AR15 or an AK47, or handguns. If I want to practice on targets I can use from an air pistol, air rifle, quite a few calibers of rifle to access targets and game at incredible distances, without needing war weapons or a pistol that were designed to kill people, not game/cardboard. Most of this is ill thought out and illogical also Im afraid.Handguns werent banned because they are too easy to conceal, steal, lose or access; otherwise there would be none in use today within the UK. Despite what we refer to as the handgun ban, there is nothing in place to stop a repeat of Dunblane from taking place tomorrow or at any at any other time. Your mention of magazines with regards to handguns reveals to a certain degree, what extent your knowledge is, of handguns currently legally owned in the UK. Most military firearms, from blackpowder to nitro, have a legitimate sporting outlet, as did the more modern self loaders. You say you cant understand owning an AR15 or AK type firearm; there are many out there who cant understand people wanting to own ANY gun, and there are organisations which exist for the sole purpose of preventing people from doing so. All the firearms currently being produced today have their basis as being one of designed to kill. Opinions are fine, but people may want to think them through; Atherton used his SPORTING shotgun to murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I have to admit . I agree with the UK pistol ban . And when they come to take your guns who will you look to for support. No wonder we can't find any support in this country when even our fellow shooters are prepared to throw other gun owners under a bus just to save their own sport. An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. Winston Churchill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBettin Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 As a shotgun owner I'd feel terribly hypocritical pointing the finger at the right to ownership of an assault rifle for sport and shouting about how dangerous it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagantino Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 You cannot own an "Assault Rifle" in the UK except for small Calibre .22. I've seen one or two that are straight pull but that is the same as a bolt action rifle. Some who are contributing here seem to have a tenuous grasp of guns in general and who and what you can own. The vast majority of people have no knowledge of shooting and have no sympathy either so we are "easy meat" for legislators who are equally ignorant of firearms. The NRA has grown strong by taking a Not An Inch attitude in the USA. Who could blame them when we see fellow shooters in the UK gladly endorse the banning of guns that they don't have. IT OFFENDS ME AND MY SENSABILITIES SO I WANT IT BANNED.......but never mind the rights of the law abiding minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Well so far that's been a very interesting, but equally depressing read..... United we stand, divided we fall. Says a lot about the long term prospects of gun ownership in this country..... Edited October 30, 2017 by jam1e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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