Kent Wildfowler’s Press Release

[6.5x55SE]

17 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

NO IDEA but imagine all would be aware of the agenda so knew what was happening, but even then it does not necessarily mean as we are speaking here now all the 700 members are fine and dandy about the outcome.

I am of the opinion rightly or wrongly we are at the dawn of proceedings on this subject.

I'd love to know just how many voted to support Kent BUT have keep with BASC through other clubs or have rejoined BASC so they can obtain Day Tickets for other Wildfowling Club/Clubs 

[lancer425]

13 hours ago, 6.5x55SE said:

I'd love to know just how many voted to support Kent BUT have keep with BASC through other clubs or have rejoined BASC so they can obtain Day Tickets for other Wildfowling Club/Clubs 

 700 sounds dramatic though . I don’t think we need to over think this kent dropping out too much, I am sure its significant  but We will have to wait before we can draw accurate conclusions .  

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by lancer425

[islandgun]

On 04/02/2018 at 19:41, stevo said:

WAGBI was started by a handlfull of Fowler’s  with a passion and a love for there sport , let’s face it there is no one looking out for lot , your situation is worse than the rest of us shooters with regards being represented. 

Why cant you start up you own new modern organisation ?Like a WAGBI reborn. 

There are enough of you to have a louder voice than you do now . 

I would subscribe to a new WAGBI along with BASC

[Guest cookoff013]

WAGBI II 

"the return of WAGBI"

 

[mudpatten]

Ah! The mythical "WAGBI 2"

It will never happen. Why? Fowlers have for years had the opportunity to vote dedicated fowlers on to BASC Council .

These fowlers, if enough had been elected, would have steered the course talen by BASC and made it more fowler friendly.

Each year they failed to get their candidates elected by ever increasing margins until, at the last election, a woman who had been a BASC member for less than a year easily beat the wildfowling candidate.

Political apathy and disinterest among fowlers, especially the younger ones, has now reached an all time high. When you speak to a modern fowler about voting in the BASC elections a large number will say that they voted for the appropriate candidate. Simple arithmetic shows that many are lying. They probably did`nt vote at all, or they voted for some other candidate, in which case why are you bellyaching about the way BASC allegedly treats fowlers.

These same fowlers are venting hot air about starting up WAGBI 2. Don`t make me laugh! They can`t even manipulate the representative body they already have, never mind start a new one.

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by mudpatten

[Pushandpull]

Absolutely correct, Mr. H.

[panoma1]

14 hours ago, mudpatten said:

Ah! The mythical "WAGBI 2"

It will never happen. Why? Fowlers have for years had the opportunity to vote dedicated fowlers on to BASC Council .

These fowlers, if enough had been elected, would have steered the course talen by BASC and made it more fowler friendly.

Each year they failed to get their candidates elected by ever increasing margins until, at the last election, a woman who had been a BASC member for less than a year easily beat the wildfowling candidate.

Political apathy and disinterest among fowlers, especially the younger ones, has now reached an all time high. When you speak to a modern fowler about voting in the BASC elections a large number will say that they voted for the appropriate candidate. Simple arithmetic shows that many are lying. They probably did`nt vote at all, or they voted for some other candidate, in which case why are you bellyaching about the way BASC allegedly treats fowlers.

These same fowlers are venting hot air about starting up WAGBI 2. Don`t make me laugh! They can`t even manipulate the representative body they already have, never mind start a new one.

 

 

 

I agree with much of this! But....do not underestimate the commitment of a few individuals to form a Wildfowlers association! And once Wildfowlers have a viable alternative?.........After all that's how WAGBI started, and everyone knows all types of clubs are kept running, not by the general membership but by the one ot two individual club officials who do all the work!

Unless BASC show an ongoing commitment to Wildfowling, they risk the possibility of such a challenge to their current position.

[Ajarrett]

I thought I would add my comments on this!

The Kent Wildfowlers is launching a new Associate category in April, offering a comprehensive package giving fast-track to Full membership and including full insurance cover. Watch out for that. 

As for another representative wildfowlers' association, the groundwork for that was done over a year ago. Have a look on Companies House and you can find The Wildfowlers Association Limited. 

All we need now are some good folk to come forward to get it off and running. Volunteers eagerly awaited!!

Alan

[islandgun]

20 hours ago, Ajarrett said:

I thought I would add my comments on this!

The Kent Wildfowlers is launching a new Associate category in April, offering a comprehensive package giving fast-track to Full membership and including full insurance cover. Watch out for that. 

As for another representative wildfowlers' association, the groundwork for that was done over a year ago. Have a look on Companies House and you can find The Wildfowlers Association Limited. 

All we need now are some good folk to come forward to get it off and running. Volunteers eagerly awaited!!

Alan

What do you want volunteers to do ? I live 700 miles from Kent but would be happy to be involved in some way

Edited February 19, 2018 by islandgun

[Ajarrett]

It doesn't matter where people are based at this stage. What is needed is a collective will to work for the betterment of our sport.

Everything depends on the number and reliability of volunteers. Without 'boots on the ground' we can't achieve anything!

Alan

[harrycatcat1]

1 hour ago, Ajarrett said:

It doesn't matter where people are based at this stage. What is needed is a collective will to work for the betterment of our sport.

Everything depends on the number and reliability of volunteers. Without 'boots on the ground' we can't achieve anything!

Alan

Can you be more specific please Alan what you would expect/like from folks?

Is it volunteering for work parties, contributing money or a signature on a petition?

[Richie10]

1 hour ago, harrycatcat1 said:

Can you be more specific please Alan what you would expect/like from folks?

Is it volunteering for work parties, contributing money or a signature on a petition?

Or allowing Kent access to your clubs land...?

[Twymyn]

I would like to support a new organisation. When will it be up and running. What is meant by volunteering?

[Guest stevo]

I’m not a wildfowler and never will be , I would however be willing to offer support in the form of membership. I have no problem supporting an organisation that is actually working towards bettering a corner of our shooting sports , after all what happens one side will always have a knock on effect to the rest of it . Good or bad .

Edited February 19, 2018 by stevo

[Ajarrett]

That silly comment from Richie10 is exactly why we are in the fix we're in. Try and have a sensible grown-up conversation and there is always .....!  (I just love these pseudonyms!) 

Let's ignore that and carry on.

It is not about work parties etc. It is about getting together and discussing what needs to be done and how we do it. Three of us have registered the company as a first step. Doers are needed which would need a sensible get-together; organisation of next steps and from that roles, then get on with those roles. It's undoubtedly admin to start with to build a membership base, which will be needed to finance the start of any new organisation.

Alan

[lancer425]

8 minutes ago, Ajarrett said:

That silly comment from Richie10 is exactly why we are in the fix we're in. Try and have a sensible grown-up conversation and there is always .....!  (I just love these pseudonyms!) 

Let's ignore that and carry on.

It is not about work parties etc. It is about getting together and discussing what needs to be done and how we do it. Three of us have registered the company as a first step. Doers are needed which would need a sensible get-together; organisation of next steps and from that roles, then get on with those roles. It's undoubtedly admin to start with to build a membership base, which will be needed to finance the start of any new organisation.

Alan

Well with your 40K saved from Basc subs that is if all your 700 members will give you all that 40k you might pay one blokes wage .

 He wont be Einstein for 40k and he will be peddling his bike a long way everyday for his wages.

You are going to have to get a lot of support from far more than just a few windflowers to get any organisation going that has any where near the experienced long term staff available within BASC.

Any members of Kent or any other club that might follow Kents lead, will if they are members of other clubs associated to BASC which most are, will  be paying another club Member BASC fee every year plus whatever you decide to charge which will have to be similar to provide a BASC like support.

 So i am in five BASC clubs if i were in kent your decision would have cost me and others in a similar scenario  60odd quid BASC membership extraon my next years overheads.

BASC perhaps are not 100% and do seem to have had a few issues lately but other clubs are ok with the work they are doing for them, certainly the five clubs i am in seem to be.

Good luck.

[Richie10]

15 minutes ago, Ajarrett said:

That silly comment from Richie10 is exactly why we are in the fix we're in. Try and have a sensible grown-up conversation and there is always .....!  (I just love these pseudonyms!) 

Let's ignore that and carry on.

It is not about work parties etc. It is about getting together and discussing what needs to be done and how we do it. Three of us have registered the company as a first step. Doers are needed which would need a sensible get-together; organisation of next steps and from that roles, then get on with those roles. It's undoubtedly admin to start with to build a membership base, which will be needed to finance the start of any new organisation.

Alan

Then clarify your vision, as the above paragraph hasn't made the aim of this new organisation any clearer.

[Ajarrett]

It's not my vision. That's up to all those who are calling for WAGBI2. 

I am happy that people are happy with BASC - free country, just!

Alan

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Ajarrett said:

It's not my vision. That's up to all those who are calling for WAGBI2. 

I am happy that people are happy with BASC - free country, just!

Alan

ALL THOSE as you put it have a lot of work to do to convince wildfowlers or indeed other shooters, that what they can do by way of support is worth another 60odd quid a year, a new organisation that needs funding and staffing immediate.

  BASC have the organisation up and running, its down to the members to decide how it works.  in the meantime BASC will keep on meeting the needs of the majority much of the time, i think Kent taking the ball in is Kents decision they must obviously have a back up plan to replace BASC in their world.

I think its early days yet too see how wise it was dropping BASC  i am sure time will reveal the answer eventually . 

Edited February 19, 2018 by lancer425

[Brodie]

So a year after The Wildfowler s Association Ltd was registered there has been no progress. Doesn't seem much local support.

Surelythe time to promote and gain volunteers for the new venture was at the meeting when opting out of BASC.

[moose man]

On 04/02/2018 at 19:29, mudpatten said:

Why on earth would I, as a wildfowler, want to amalgamate with the chinless wonder fox hunters of the CA?

 

Sadly this is where the chink in the armour starts , there are plenty of shooters in the CA , I’d rather be in bed with , your words , chinless wonders of the CA than not have a bed at all . Make no mistake if the Labour Party do get in having already banned fox hunting and hunting with dogs ALL forms of shooting will be there next mission ...we need everyone in ALL field sports to fight the other mans corner .Disassociating yourself from fox hunting will do us more harm than them , they have already lost there sport ours is still to be lost .

[Ajarrett]

Brodie,

You are perhaps understandably conflating the two thing. Leaving BASC was for the KWCA members the right response to a couple of years of disagreements, initially over insurance and then other things too.The KWCA now has an excellent insurance package of its own and a plan for going forward based on what had gone before.

The WIldfowlers' *** Ltd was set up  in case/for when it is needed - by who ever might want to use it.

Lancer425. Yes there is a KWCA backup plan which is in place and working well.

Alan

[TWAG]

I would not worry about BASC. They have been a sleep at the wheel as usual. If at the next general election the Labour party is elected and they implement there new

animal welfare policy which prohibits caged lying of gamebirds, this will be the end of game shooting and BASC in this country.

 In reality there would only be one or two potentially cohesive interest groups in shooting left wildfowling being one of them dear stalking the other.

All the time small minded selfish little man spread lies and deceitful comments about their fellow wildfowlers.

When RPG and Stanley Duncan set up WAGBI they could never have dreams in the worst nightmares that fellow wildfowlers behaviour and loyalty to the sport could degenerate into the state is today.

[panoma1]

Don't take for granted Wildfowling will have a future! It is under severe threat from NE who have been "consulting" on the future of Wildfowling club consents in England, and NRW are consulting on Wildfowling club consents and other shooting over land it controls in Wales!

[TWAG]

The regulatory bodies consultation on consenting process for the extraction of I notified spaces from a SSSI.

Reality check! It means and I mean what it says on the box "Regulatory Body" regulators regulate. Historically when ever wildfowlers through the BASC or other persons have been imposed with "restrictions" in technical terms modification or amendment to the harvest. They have always put up an argument and tried to fight the case. At the best all that has ever been achieved is a compromise where both sides suffers some pain.

Public Consultation.

This means exactly that, you can be absolutely certain that all the conservation bodies have put in a negative comments which by empirical measurement will outweigh wildfowlers.

This is a very dangerous path to go down when the consultation finds that the process is not robust enough. The regulator will then strengthen the process it is far easier to say no and invoke the precautionary principle. Than having to go through a very in-depth appropriate assessment using the facts and figures and manipulating the facts and figures to get the answers they want!

If you are thinking we are going to get a light touch regarding consent, no chance no money and the conservation bodies have more lobbying power than we do at the moment using BASC.

Will individuals and clubs come together to fight there will be some. But I fear there will not be a enough in numbers and in intellectual capacity to take on the adversarial of the statutory agencies.

It will be by education by wildfowlers that will make the real difference to educate the statutory agencies local office, and employees not only the ones that directly impact upon wildfowling operations. This is where any organisation or organisations or individuals time is best spent. 

Statutory conservation agencies

The other option would be to make sure that on the board/governing body have selected for them by the Secretary of State the appropriate persons to represent the country sports. The person or persons would need to have at the very minimum a countryside background. A farmer estate manager land agent with an interest in shooting preferably wildfowling and the appropriate university degree.

 

I have to say to date none of our representative bodies have even considered such a radical idea let alone thought of implementing it.

 

TWAG