Boris Threatens Reprisals Against Russia.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Lets not forget his daughter, another innocent victim. 

If the Russians and the BBC said it then it must be true.  

So he didn't get paid then? 

[Sha Bu Le]

10 hours ago, Hamster said:

Correct. 

Anyone who considers main stream "news" on Russian/Syrian/Iranian/Venezuelan/ME/Etc matters as anything other than state sponsored propaganda needs their bumps read. 

ps. what does needs their bumps read mean ? 

 

phrenology

frɪˈnɒlədʒi/  

noun

historical

noun: phrenology

1. the detailed study of the shape and size of the cranium  (including bumps) as a supposed indication of character and mental abilities.

    

   Courtesy of Mr Goggle and a life time of memorising a gazillion useless facts, Parenthesis contents my addition.

    

   Edit = Ignore the bit at the bottom, can't get rid of it for some reason.

    

     

  

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Sha Bu Le

[poontang]

On 08/03/2018 at 20:15, oowee said:

Lets hope that if it proves to be Russia we can carry the EU with us in a collaborative response.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

The EU are one of the main reasons Putin feels so emboldened at the moment.

Notwithstanding the fact that, apart from the UK, no major EU economy pays its fair share towards NATO the Russians are one of, if not the biggest exporter of oil and gas into the EU. Don't expect Merkel to be getting too tough with Putin any day soon. 

[old man]

51 minutes ago, poontang said:

I wouldn't hold your breath.

The EU are one of the main reasons Putin feels so emboldened at the moment.

Notwithstanding the fact that, apart from the UK, no major EU economy pays its fair share towards NATO the Russians are one of, if not the biggest exporter of oil and gas into the EU. Don't expect Merkel to be getting too tough with Putin any day soon. 

Not forgetting the seriousness of the offence, this is the correct answer.

Russia can turn off the gazoil at a moment's notice? 

[oowee]

3 hours ago, poontang said:

I wouldn't hold your breath.

The EU are one of the main reasons Putin feels so emboldened at the moment.

Notwithstanding the fact that, apart from the UK, no major EU economy pays its fair share towards NATO the Russians are one of, if not the biggest exporter of oil and gas into the EU. Don't expect Merkel to be getting too tough with Putin any day soon. 

Rather than see the EU as the reason for Putins cavalier attitude, I would put more weight on the poor economic performance of the country. It's a popular tactic for a poorly performing country, to create an enemy and blame outsiders for it's own failings.

The EU have been pretty robust so far in respect of sanctions in support of the Crimean annexation, which were recently renewed. The Russian economy is already badly hit with the low oil price so any loss of market supply would be very detrimental to the state. We could argue about the effectiveness of these things but clearly joint actions with the EU would likely be more effective than unilateral approach.

In 2015 54% of EU energy supplies were from outside member states. 

 

[Rewulf]

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

Rather than see the EU as the reason for Putins cavalier attitude, I would put more weight on the poor economic performance of the country. It's a popular tactic for a poorly performing country, to create an enemy and blame outsiders for it's own failings.

The EU have been pretty robust so far in respect of sanctions in support of the Crimean annexation, which were recently renewed. The Russian economy is already badly hit with the low oil price so any loss of market supply would be very detrimental to the state. We could argue about the effectiveness of these things but clearly joint actions with the EU would likely be more effective than unilateral approach.

In 2015 54% of EU energy supplies were from outside member states. 

 

Putins cavalier attitude to what exactly ?
And blaming outsiders for their own failings ? The west does that all the time, usually, with Russia or China  being the bogey man.
If the EU hadnt meddled with Ukraine in the first place, then the annexation of the Crimea wouldnt have presented itself as an option to Russia at all.
We caused that to happen, the fact that 90% of Crimeans are ethnic Russian, and welcomed it, ensured it.

So half of our oi;/gas based energy comes from outside the EU ? Hasnt it always been like that ?
I dont see any oil or gas being bought out the ground in France, Germany or Spain, no wonder theyre so keen on fracking, and electric cars.

Russia has had far worse times than of late, and come through it.
For us to keep trying to make a scapegoat of them is embarrassing.
We create the conditions, then sling the mud to further the agenda of a select few.
Next year theyll be telling you your gas bill has gone up 25% 'Due to Russia' or some such BS.

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Putins cavalier attitude to what exactly ? Read previous posts.
And blaming outsiders for their own failings ? The west does that all the time, usually, with Russia or China  being the bogey man.
If the EU hadnt meddled with Ukraine in the first place, then the annexation of the Crimea wouldnt have presented itself as an option to Russia at all.
We caused that to happen, the fact that 90% of Crimeans are ethnic Russian, and welcomed it, ensured it.   65%

So half of our oi;/gas based energy comes from outside the EU ? Hasnt it always been like that ? No
I dont see any oil or gas being bought out the ground in France, Germany or Spain, no wonder theyre so keen on fracking, and electric cars. Look at alternatives

Russia has had far worse times than of late, and come through it.
For us to keep trying to make a scapegoat of them is embarrassing. For whom?
We create the conditions, then sling the mud to further the agenda of a select few.
Next year theyll be telling you your gas bill has gone up 25% 'Due to Russia' or some such BS. I don't have gas.

 

[Rewulf]

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Extra-EU28_imports_of_natural_gas,_2011-2017_(EUR_billion).png

You say 65 % of Crimea are ethnic Russians, a healthy majority, yet only 15 % of the remainder identify as Ukrainian, a very small minority, the other 20 % identify as Crimeans or a small amount of other nationalities, my point rests.

The other questions you dodged.

[Danger-Mouse]

On 08/03/2018 at 10:01, TIGHTCHOKE said:

 

I would love to know how it was administered.

Very, very carefully.

[ordnance]

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Putins cavalier attitude to what exactly ?
And blaming outsiders for their own failings ? The west does that all the time, usually, with Russia or China  being the bogey man.
If the EU hadnt meddled with Ukraine in the first place, then the annexation of the Crimea wouldnt have presented itself as an option to Russia at all.
We caused that to happen, the fact that 90% of Crimeans are ethnic Russian, and welcomed it, ensured it.

So half of our oi;/gas based energy comes from outside the EU ? Hasnt it always been like that ?
I dont see any oil or gas being bought out the ground in France, Germany or Spain, no wonder theyre so keen on fracking, and electric cars.

Russia has had far worse times than of late, and come through it.
For us to keep trying to make a scapegoat of them is embarrassing.
We create the conditions, then sling the mud to further the agenda of a select few.
Next year theyll be telling you your gas bill has gone up 25% 'Due to Russia' or some such BS.

Russia is a mafia state run by Putin and his cronies, you seem to be a keen supporter of Russia.  

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Russia is a mafia state run by Putin and his cronies, you seem to be a keen supporter of Russia.  

 I'm not disagreeing with you on what Russia is. 

But because my BS detector went off as soon as they blamed Russia, before they even knew it was a nerve agent, makes me a Russia supporter? 

You're an intelligent man Ordnance, are you telling me that Porton Down couldn't reproduce novochok? 

But because that's what's been used (allegedly) it's definitely the Russkies? 

One of the most deadly (allegedly) nerve toxins ever made (cos we've never made anything like that) and it takes them 5 days to tell the residents of Salisbury to take precautions? 

You're either being deliberately misleading, or very very naive. 

[ordnance]

Quote

 

You're an intelligent man Ordnance, are you telling me that Porton Down couldn't reproduce novochok? 

But because that's what's been used (allegedly) it's definitely the Russkies? 

One of the most deadly (allegedly) nerve toxins ever made (cos we've never made anything like that) and it takes them 5 days to tell the residents of Salisbury to take precautions? 

You're either being deliberately misleading, or very very naive.

 

 Why would they want to reproduce novochok. ? Maybe you are the one being naive believing it was not the Russians. 

[12gauge82]

Very interesting debate, I'm on the fence on this, something defiantly doesn't smell right with it all, but obviously it's not past the Russians either, one thing this discussion defiantly highlights however is the total lack of trust in our government.

[Rewulf]

Just now, ordnance said:

 Why would they want to reproduce novochok. ? Maybe you are the one being naive believing it was not the Russians. 

Imagine you wanted 'rid' of someone. 

Someone who the whole world knows you don't like. 

So you go round his house, use a weapon everyone knows belongs to you, leave your prints, your dna, and for good measure drop your driving licence as you exit, whilst letting his neighbours have a good look at you too. 

And you don't even check he's dead.. 

[ordnance]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Imagine you wanted 'rid' of someone. 

Someone who the whole world knows you don't like. 

So you go round his house, use a weapon everyone knows belongs to you, leave your prints, your dna, and for good measure drop your driving licence as you exit, whilst letting his neighbours have a good look at you too. 

And you don't even check he's dead.. 

Good questions something i am sure smarter people than me are trying to answer, maybe the Russians are sending out a message. 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Good questions something i am sure smarter people than me are trying to answer, maybe the Russians are sending out a message. 

What like? 

We're really rubbish at assassination, and not getting caught for it? 

[ordnance]

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What like? 

We're really rubbish at assassination, and not getting caught for it? 

I will let you figure that out as you seem to have all the answers.  No gang mafia Russia, have murdered someone in the past and left a calling card to send a message.  They used to do it here all the time. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

I will let you figure that out as you seem to have all the answers. 

All the answers? 

I don't have any answers, what I do know is their answers are highly suspect. 

If it looks like BS,  smells like BS, but they tell you it's chocolate, don't swallow it. 

[ordnance]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

All the answers? 

I don't have any answers, what I do know is their answers are highly suspect. 

If it looks like BS,  smells like BS, but they tell you it's chocolate, don't swallow it. 

Yeah the Russians wouldn't BS. Until i know any different i will take the UK governments assessment of the situation over a foreign countries (Russia), you believe who you want.     

[oowee]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

Yeah the Russians wouldn't BS. Until i know any different i will take the UK governments assessment of the situation over a foreign countries (Russia), you believe who you want.     

Me too. What do we do next?

[Mungler]

Litvenenko was rubbed out on Putin’s instruction? Can we agree on that?

There, a very unique and state sponsored method of assignation was used - polonium. That took 3 weeks to kill him and he was able to give the police a full statement, they in turn checked the details and names against travel logs and accurately piece everything together.

So, they’ve done it before?

I see there’s a few still seeing the walrus on the hippo. 

[oowee]

Together with Gareth Williams, Scott Young, Boris Berezovsky, Yuri Golubev, Badri Patarkatsishvili and Alexander Perepilichnyy.

[Mungler]

It’s a good bit of bait for the tinfoil hat brigade to come up with their far fetched conspiracies though

 

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It’s a good bit of bait for the tinfoil hat brigade to come up with their far fetched conspiracies though

 

[panoma1]

Come on gents we, the general public are lied to, mislead and misdirected all the time! By everyone with an agenda! You never know who's telling the truth, so speculate all you want........you'll only ever hear what those imparting the information want you to.

We the general public are treated like mushrooms........kept in the dark and fed excreta.