Side by Side Club

[JJsDad]

Salvaged from the Skip.

About 5 years ago I had a phone call from a relative who works in the central heating trade, who asked if I wanted half a gun !!!   Daft question, of course I want it; it might just be half of a Purdey for heavens sake.

It transpired he had been in the loft of a house undergoing refurbishment and while clearing accumulated cardboard boxes and other junk he had found what he thought was a piece of an old gun and if I didnt want it, it was destined for the skip. He subsequently dropped off a carrier bag with the sorry remains of an old under lever hammer gun. I say sorry, because the barrels & fore-end were missing and the stock had been snapped off at the hand. After a bit of cleaning of years of grime and light rust it turned out not to be a Purdey but a bar action hammer gun by `Charles Smith`. The action itself was in a pretty poor state, but I wanted the locks off with the intention of at least salvaging the `V` springs. The single screw retaining the locks refused to move and I ended up drilling out the head before the locks would come off.

To my surprise, the inside of the locks were virtually pristine and other than a light coating of grease I doubt if they had been removed since the gun was made.Being the better grade 4 pin locks and made in Wolverhampton by J Stanton & Co I decided to retain them, rather than remove the springs and bin the rest. They are re-bounding pattern locks so the gun post dates Stantons invention in 1867 of the re-bounding lock. What I found particularly interesting is the internal quality; all the screws are minutely centre pop marked below the head to their respective threaded holes, they all also all line up front to rear and retain their original heat treatment colours. The LH lock plate as well as bearing Stantons name & Pattern No: have the name `W Mansfield` minutely engraved. Was he the highly skilled guy who made these ? If so, his work and name have been hidden for something around 130 odd years.

They were just to nice to get stuck in a drawer; so after a good clean and light oil I mounted them in a box photo frame that hangs on the spare bedroom (gun room) wall. Creates a little talking point and at least shows to `W Mansfield` if he is looking down, that somebody appreciates his work.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by JJsDad

[JohnfromUK]

18 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Salvaged from the Skip.

As I'm sure you know, Stanton were a Wolverhampton lockmaker who made for many of the 'best' guns.  My Maleham (see picture on page 6 of this thread) has Stanton locks.  Other notable makers were Brazier and Chilton.  It may not be a Purdey, but Stanton locks are as good as any, and may well have been used by Purdey. 

[Feltwad]

21 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Salvaged from the Skip.

About 5 years ago I had a phone call from a relative who works in the central heating trade, who asked if I wanted half a gun !!!   Daft question, of course I want it; it might just be half of a Purdey for heavens sake.

It transpired he had been in the loft of a house undergoing refurbishment and while clearing accumulated cardboard boxes and other junk he had found what he thought was a piece of an old gun and if I didnt want it, it was destined for the skip. He subsequently dropped off a carrier bag with the sorry remains of an old under lever hammer gun. I say sorry, because the barrels & fore-end were missing and the stock had been snapped off at the hand. After a bit of cleaning of years of grime and light rust it turned out not to be a Purdey but a bar action hammer gun by `Charles Smith`. The action itself was in a pretty poor state, but I wanted the locks off with the intention of at least salvaging the `V` springs. The single screw retaining the locks refused to move and I ended up drilling out the head before the locks would come off.

To my surprise, the inside of the locks were virtually pristine and other than a light coating of grease I doubt if they had been removed since the gun was made.Being the better grade 4 pin locks and made in Wolverhampton by J Stanton & Co I decided to retain them, rather than remove the springs and bin the rest. They are re-bounding pattern locks so the gun post dates Stantons invention in 1867 of the re-bounding lock. What I found particularly interesting is the internal quality; all the screws are minutely centre pop marked below the head to their respective threaded holes, they all also all line up front to rear and retain their original heat treatment colours. The LH lock plate as well as bearing Stantons name & Pattern No: have the name `W Mansfield` minutely engraved. Was he the highly skilled guy who made these ? If so, his work and name have been hidden for something around 130 odd years.

They were just to nice to get stuck in a drawer; so after a good clean and light oil I mounted them in a box photo frame that hangs on the spare bedroom (gun room) wall. Creates a little talking point and at least shows to `W Mansfield` if he is looking down, that somebody appreciates his work.

 

How many times have I heard this story it must have happened many times , I remember some years ago I was given two very good s/b muzzle loaders that were destined for the skip by a old  chap who was down sizing because he was moving into a bungalow .

Feltwad

[AYA117]

2 hours ago, JJsDad said:

I mounted them in a box photo frame that hangs on the spare bedroom

And very nice they look too, a lucky find indeed.

[Old farrier]

They look very nice in the case 

did you make the case or is there any chance you can say where you purchased it as I have some lock plates and have been wondering what to do with them 

[wymberley]

Well, here we are, well and truly up and running. We've had the pictures and the rhetoric; all of the former have been delightful and the latter, most  interesting.

So, what are we going to do with them?

This by it's nature will be a 'by and large' post.

For many years I've used a SbS for game and increasingly a wrong 'un in the pigeon hide except when on occasion the fancy took me and I grabbed the little AyA. The wrong un's load was 1&1/8 oz of 6&1/2s. Age has now got hold of me and I've decided to drop down to a metric ounce of 7s. Unfortunately, this has coincided with a reduction in the availability of this shot size in game loads and also in the availability of that size in fibre for clays. I would imagine (well, can be pretty damned sure I suppose) that most of our SbSs will be fixed choke. I don't expect everyone to agree - each to their own - but I go along with the BASC (and our own BRL) on the required pellet strike rate to ensure a clean kill. I do differ a tad and accept a 90% probability figure as opposed to the BASC's 95%. My game is/was all walked up and I've also now stopped that and all my shooting witll be pigeon and corvid from a hide. Consequently, the canons have been replaced by a wrong 'un which weighs just an ounce more than the AyA and as the latter was game bored, I've picked up another SbS which weighs the same as the new wrong 'un; their spec's being identical apart from the barrel configuration. Also going to use the wrong 'un on the occasional clays where the cartridge choice is extensive so the fixed choke is not a problem. What I have found is that trying to get a 28g No 7 in fibre is hard enough, but one that patterns anywhere near which gives the sufficient strike rate at the maximum range you'd expect for a cartridge in 7 shot is nigh on impossible. I have managed it, but have found that c1/2 by cFull is necessary with the cartridge performing very close to that nominal boring and even then, because the actual cartridge pellet count is a little higher that the 7 shot specification.

So far I've found two cartridges which suit a 45 yard capability;  namely, Both Gamebore and 28g - Super Game High Bird  and the Blue Diamond in their clay range. Can anyone add to that somewhat meagre list? IE, which No 7 in 28g and fibre is renowned for a tight pattern?

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello wymberly, i just bought some romag 6 shot  fibre 70mm 28 g very light on the shoulder note just carts put them at 6s but 7.5 on box

Edited May 1, 2018 by oldypigeonpopper

[AYA117]

If the RC Hyperfast 28g loads are as good as the 35g then they are very tight patterning, they are available in 6 as that is Italian 6 it should be English 6 1/2. Their Red Shot 30g is worth a look it is only 2g more and they are sweet shooting!

Also Hull Cartridge Imperial Game  28g 7s, I have used them on clays and they work well.

Edited May 1, 2018 by AYA117

[wymberley]

7 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello wymberly, i just bought some romag 6 shot  fibre 70mm 28 g very light on the shoulder

Cheers.

Obviously, we're only talking my gun here. Perusal of the Eley Diary will give you an idea. The Super Game High Bird shoot 17" at 20 yards, the Blue Diamond 17.6" and the Romagnola 20.5"

2 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

If the RC Hyperfast 28g loads are as good as the 35g then they are very tight patterning, they are available in 6 as that is Italian 6 it should be English 6 1/2. Their Red Shot 30g is worth a look it is only 2g more and they are sweet shooting!

Cheers.

I think I may have access to those.

[browning123]

8 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

If the RC Hyperfast 28g loads are as good as the 35g then they are very tight patterning, they are available in 6 as that is Italian 6 it should be English 6 1/2. Their Red Shot 30g is worth a look it is only 2g more and they are sweet shooting!

Also Hull Cartridge Imperial Game  28g 7s, I have used them on clays and they work well.

I believe a Italian 6 is an English 5 1/2.

[AYA117]

3 minutes ago, browning123 said:

I believe a Italian 6 is an English 5 1/2.

You are quite right, stupid me it's nock a 1/2 off not add it on     oooops!

In my defence it has been a very long day 

Edited May 1, 2018 by AYA117

[browning123]

Just now, AYA117 said:

You are quite right, stupid me it's nock a 1/2 off not add it on     oooops!

No problem ?

[wymberley]

20 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

If the RC Hyperfast 28g loads are as good as the 35g then they are very tight patterning, they are available in 6 as that is Italian 6 it should be English 6 1/2. Their Red Shot 30g is worth a look it is only 2g more and they are sweet shooting!

Also Hull Cartridge Imperial Game  28g 7s, I have used them on clays and they work well.

Sadly, a lovely game cartridge but far too open in my gun for pigeon - or clays for that matter. I won't even give you the 20 yard spread figure.

I'm still crying over the loss of the High Pheasant in 7s.

[AYA117]

15 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Sadly, a lovely game cartridge but far too open in my gun for pigeon - or clays for that matter. I won't even give you the 20 yard spread figure.

Have you tried any of their clay loads? A very good friend of mine shoots competitive clays at the top level and swears by Sovereign Fibre ( available in 7 ) I have seen him shoot some very long clays with them.

[wymberley]

34 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Have you tried any of their clay loads? A very good friend of mine shoots competitive clays at the top level and swears by Sovereign Fibre ( available in 7 ) I have seen him shoot some very long clays with them.

Yep, early on as soon as I got the new wrong 'un. This is now Teagued 3/8 and 7/8 fixed and I get 1/4 by 3/4 actual. I can't recall precisely what the Hull clay loads did, but suffice to say I binned the 'no hope' pattern records. I've stocked up on the two good ones I've mentioned so have a cushion. The High Bird were for the AyA specifically as this is 2&1/2" chamber. No problem now as the Webley and Scott is 2&3/4".

[kevin55]

5 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Salvaged from the Skip.

About 5 years ago I had a phone call from a relative who works in the central heating trade, who asked if I wanted half a gun !!!   Daft question, of course I want it; it might just be half of a Purdey for heavens sake.

It transpired he had been in the loft of a house undergoing refurbishment and while clearing accumulated cardboard boxes and other junk he had found what he thought was a piece of an old gun and if I didnt want it, it was destined for the skip. He subsequently dropped off a carrier bag with the sorry remains of an old under lever hammer gun. I say sorry, because the barrels & fore-end were missing and the stock had been snapped off at the hand. After a bit of cleaning of years of grime and light rust it turned out not to be a Purdey but a bar action hammer gun by `Charles Smith`. The action itself was in a pretty poor state, but I wanted the locks off with the intention of at least salvaging the `V` springs. The single screw retaining the locks refused to move and I ended up drilling out the head before the locks would come off.

To my surprise, the inside of the locks were virtually pristine and other than a light coating of grease I doubt if they had been removed since the gun was made.Being the better grade 4 pin locks and made in Wolverhampton by J Stanton & Co I decided to retain them, rather than remove the springs and bin the rest. They are re-bounding pattern locks so the gun post dates Stantons invention in 1867 of the re-bounding lock. What I found particularly interesting is the internal quality; all the screws are minutely centre pop marked below the head to their respective threaded holes, they all also all line up front to rear and retain their original heat treatment colours. The LH lock plate as well as bearing Stantons name & Pattern No: have the name `W Mansfield` minutely engraved. Was he the highly skilled guy who made these ? If so, his work and name have been hidden for something around 130 odd years.

They were just to nice to get stuck in a drawer; so after a good clean and light oil I mounted them in a box photo frame that hangs on the spare bedroom (gun room) wall. Creates a little talking point and at least shows to `W Mansfield` if he is looking down, that somebody appreciates his work.

 

Information

Trade: Gun lock maker

Dates: 1875-1896

Notes:

William Mansfield (Jnr) was the son of William Mansfield (b.1807) of Darlaston Road, Wednesbury. He was born in 1843 and recorded in the 1851 and 1861 censuses living with his family in Darlaston Road.

He appears to have established his own business in 1875 in Cornhill, Wolverhampton. In 1877 he moved to Lord Street West.

He became a friend of Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey and in 1887 patented "The Gallwey Brazier Improved Game Scorer" a game counter which could be fitted into the fore...

From the Internet Gun Club

KM

 

 

 

[dipper]

patterned some hull high pheasant 1 .1/16oz felt wad with 1/2 choke.no6 slightly under size shot pattern just over full choke.Very nice pattern .Dipper

[JJsDad]

3 hours ago, Old farrier said:

did you make the case or is there any chance you can say where you purchased

Hi Old Farrier.

I was going to make one, but decided to search ebay to see what there was on offer. Pretty sure they called it a deep box picture or photo frame. Various sizes & depth of the box. It had a piece of mirror glass stuck onto the rear inner back of the box that I removed and then covered with some green beize. Cant recall price, but it wasnt dear (£6 to £7) & hardly worth the effort of making one. Trust this helps. Cheers

JJsDad

Edited May 1, 2018 by JJsDad

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, kevin55 said:

William Mansfield (Jnr) was the son of William Mansfield (b.1807) of Darlaston Road, Wednesbury. He was born in 1843 and recorded in the 1851 and 1861 censuses living with his family in Darlaston Road.

Thanks kevin 55. Thats very interesting. I took a bit of a guess that was the case & it was a way of the individual signing his work because both lock plates are stamped with the company, Stanton & Co plus the pattern number; so its nice to have it confirmed. I typed up a label which is stuck to the rear of the box giving the details I had at the time, so now you have kindly given me more information I will amend that to reflect what you have come up with. Very much obliged, it may in years to come interest someone else when it comes time to hang my clogs up.

[Old farrier]

Many thanks jj 

ill give the net a look clean up the lock plates and post the story of them 

when ive got them in a display case 

[JJsDad]

10 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

ill give the net a look

Hi Old farrier, yep; deep picture box on the bay. Just had a look, these 2 for £8. These are pine, but pages & pages of ads.

[JJsDad]

Change of search function on Guntrader

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the armpits of the Guntrader IT reps.

They seem to have changed the search facility (again) and now I cannot find a bl***y thing. Why cant people who make these changes remember the old adage: `If it aint broke; dont fix it`

Rant over.

[AYA117]

12 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

They seem to have changed the search facility (again) and now I cannot find a bl***y thing. Why cant people who make these changes remember the old adage: `If it aint broke; dont fix it`

Why, quite simply why! It was much better the old way.

[Velocette]

4 hours ago, wymberley said:

Sadly, a lovely game cartridge but far too open in my gun for pigeon - or clays for that matter. I won't even give you the 20 yard spread figure.

I'm still crying over the loss of the High Pheasant in 7s.

Have you tried the 30g no.7 that Henry Krank offers? I think that they are made by Eley

[Old Boggy]

9 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Hi Old farrier, yep; deep picture box on the bay. Just had a look, these 2 for £8. These are pine, but pages & pages of ads.

Thanks from me also JJsDad. I am looking for something similar to display my old Dad's WW11 war medals.

Those Stanton locks look great displayed like that.

OB

On 30 April 2018 at 19:13, matone said:

Think it was more the 80`s when Lord Lichfield was in that adverts tbh.

 

I think that you're probably right there Matone. 

My memory's not too good sometimes.