Lloyd90 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Whatmuff said: Ha, agreed. I think they should be made to pay full rates regardless and if the threaten to move then are no longer allowed to trade whatsoever in the U.K. Without the customers they wouldn't be earning. Massive corporations and famous folk continue to find loopholes to reduce their tax, meanwhile the rest of us fork out full rates. Makes my blood boil. Not to mention individuals like Gary Barlow tax avoiding (legally) and then trying to get public cash for his charity work! Yes mate exactly the same as the big coffee chains - so what if they leave? We can all just buy our high street coffee from the small time cafe owners - be better off putting money back into the community!! The UK needs to seriously look at the tax code and make some big changes. Too many people getting too much money to let that happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Everyone I talk to in my field (Carpentry/construction) are super busy. Is it everyone doing stuff to their house etc before something happens? I don’t know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 44 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: I don’t believe I said that at all ... although feel free to quote the post that I did. What I actually said was - if your parents need care then they can go to a nice home where they’re treated better - not the cheapest horrible one providing the bare essentials. What’s the alternative? Should we throw her out onto the street in her old age to die? “Sorry luv, but you didn’t save any money for your old age!” We’d all be on here ranting and raving about what a disgrace it is to let an old woman be treated like that if they actually did 😂 Truthfully she’s a lazy old **** that should be. Apparently sick for 50 years . if you don’t put in you don’t take out in my view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 48 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Taxes and the care home fees similar in that those who earn very little pay no tax. Those who have no money don’t pay their care home fees. When you earn loads of money and you pay 40% tax you get the same benefits as the person who pays 0% tax. You both get to use the roads, the infrastructure, the NHS etc. What would your alternative be? People who’ve spent their money should just be left to die because they can’t afdord care? Maybe they should be - at least then they’d take some responsibility over planning for the future. The big thing with this is similar to taxation - people who earn plenty of money complain about paying taxes and benefit scrounges having everything for nothing, but when it comes down to it, would you want to swap lives with them? Would you want to live on a council estate and live off your “free” £40 a week spending money etc. I think you need to read my posts again. I stated that state funded care should be provided to ALL (regardless of wealth), if it's provided to one. And you kind of missed my point with Taxes. Taxes are non discriminatory, where as what is suggested with care is. And as I said about people who pay absolutely no Tax, that's a whole other discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, winnie&bezza said: Everyone I talk to in my field (Carpentry/construction) are super busy. Is it everyone doing stuff to their house etc before something happens? I don’t know. Down to 2 months for us which is weird. It’s slowing up I think Nath . We have bits in jan but gaps in December of a few days which is unusual for us. word on the street is the big suppliers are noticing it slowing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirokuMK70 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 The current system is blatently unfair. My grandad is currently paying £1000 a week(!) for his care from the savings that he has carefully accumulated throughout his life. Others in the home that have pi$$ed everything they had up the wall all their lives get the same for buckshee. How is that fair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted October 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, miroku mk70 said: The current system is blatently unfair. My grandad is currently paying £1000 a week(!) for his care from the savings that he has carefully accumulated throughout his life. Others in the home that have pi$$ed everything they had up the wall all their lives get the same for buckshee. How is that fair? Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, team tractor said: Down to 2 months for us which is weird. It’s slowing up I think Nath . We have bits in jan but gaps in December of a few days which is unusual for us. word on the street is the big suppliers are noticing it slowing up. Oh bloody hell, doesn’t sound good. 😰 I might of picked the wrong time to go self employed. Liked to have had a go at it for at least a few years but oh well 😔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 37 minutes ago, miroku mk70 said: The current system is blatently unfair. My grandad is currently paying £1000 a week(!) for his care from the savings that he has carefully accumulated throughout his life. Others in the home that have pi$$ed everything they had up the wall all their lives get the same for buckshee. How is that fair? Some would argue he is the foolish one. What was he saving it for? Everyday I see very elderly people with tens if not hundreds of thousands in the bank, let alone their houses. We tell them they need care to go home but they refuse to pay for it, so are “stranded” in hospital. What do they think they’re saving it for? If they want to give it away they could do, but they don’t, they just keep it in the bank. I see it everyday even with people who have no kids and no relatives to leave it to. I honestly think some people get into a mindset similar to hoarding - refusing to spend it. Often we go and see people living in terrible conditions but have loads of money, yet they won’t soend any to make the house liveable etc. I try to tell them, spend it whilst you still can and have some amazing retirement years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: I think you need to read my posts again. I stated that state funded care should be provided to ALL (regardless of wealth), if it's provided to one. And you kind of missed my point with Taxes. Taxes are non discriminatory, where as what is suggested with care is. And as I said about people who pay absolutely no Tax, that's a whole other discussion. Unfortunately local councils are in a terrible position as it is. If they also had to find people with huge amounts of personal wealth they’d definitely be bankrupt. Judt look at when Theresa May tried to change it to introduce more funds for adult social care for desperate councils. She went from being told the tories would have a landslide victory and win loads of labour seats, to almost losing the election and being forced to make a deal with the DUP just to keep her head above water. Its such a controversial issue, but several councils are already going bankrupt and if someone doesn’t change more will follow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 Quote The 'same' state funded care should be provided to all, if you want better care then you should have to fund that yourself. Exactly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted October 12, 2018 Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Whatmuff said: I get this however, how is it that Amazon only paid 15m tax on 19.8bn on european revenues? Once again the rich and powerful coming out on top. I’ve been to the pub so picking this up late, hence the delayed reply. I agree that Amazon’s corporate taxes are wrong, i could give you some other state sponsored examples too, but my thumbs are a bit too squiffy just now. Amazon have a very large fulfilment centre near me and I have done much work with Amazon previously in my corporate life worth 7 figures per annum and they do actially introduce a huge amount of income into the local economy, despite their central taxation burden, but it’s still wrong. A fairly pointless post really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted October 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, grrclark said: I’ve been to the pub so picking this up late, hence the delayed reply. I agree that Amazon’s corporate taxes are wrong, i could give you some other state sponsored examples too, but my thumbs are a bit too squiffy just now. Amazon have a very large fulfilment centre near me and I have done much work with Amazon previously in my corporate life worth 7 figures per annum and they do actially introduce a huge amount of income into the local economy, despite their central taxation burden, but it’s still wrong. A fairly pointless post really! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 There should be a minimum standard for final care but it still has to be paid for. we have an ageing population so the cost is going to rest on the youngsters. Now they say that life expectancy is dropping so fewer young people to care/pay tax to care for the elderly. A perfect storm situation? Keep cutting council budgets and we may return to a "workhouse" situation for the poor and vulnerable. Anyone think that's unlikely? In the last few years I've already seen a couple married for 65 years put in different homes 7 miles apart and only allowed 1 visit per fortnight for 2 hours. It killed them both within 4 months. Whatever our old people suffer now will come back to bite us even worse I reckon. Our society is going backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: You want to swear at me and call me a communist? 1) communists normally think everyone should be reliant on the state - that’s the opposite of what I’m proposing - your idea seems to be closer to communism’s ideals than mine ... & 2) you seem to be more concerned about how much money you get left rather than that money be spent to ensure those old people have high quality care in their final years. I guess you won’t mind when the council put your relatives into the cheapest possible care home they can. No problem as long as you don’t have to give up a penny of their hard earned money I suppose. Shame your not as concerns as having your parents in a good home in their final years. You do realise their is no difference between if you pay or not. My granny was paying £2500 a month until we proved her illness. She then got it for free . the people next to her hadn’t worked a day in their lives. Same place but for free . their isn’t some glorified home/hotel for them . They all sit in front of a tv in the day room dribbling and drinking tea. ive experienced both my granny’s in homes paid and unpaid as my grandma hadn’t a penny . She saved for her funeral so we wouldn’t have to pay for it as she cared. My grandad was in the pits from 13 until he was 65 he earnt it for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, team tractor said: You do realise their is no difference between if you pay or not. My granny was paying £2500 a month until we proved her illness. She then got it for free . the people next to her hadn’t worked a day in their lives. Same place but for free . their isn’t some glorified home/hotel for them . They all sit in front of a tv in the day room dribbling and drinking tea. ive experienced both my granny’s in homes paid and unpaid as my grandma hadn’t a penny . She saved for her funeral so we wouldn’t have to pay for it as she cared. My grandad was in the pits from 13 until he was 65 he earnt it for her. It’s my job mate - setting up packages of care for people to return home from Hospital, and if they can’t go home helping them to find a Care home that can meet their needs and arranging the funding. Probably have 2-3 people into care homes every week. I work with lots of self funders, some of them are very focused on getting their loved ones into high quality homes. There are absolutely better homes out there that the council simply won’t fund but self funders go to all the time. There are also self funders who’s family still put them in cheap homes on the home that they croak and there’ll be a load left over. Unfortunately it’s a post code lottery like lots of things - if you live in an area that’s generally very poor, it’s probably unlikely to have many high end homes. Its also a postcode lottery trying to get CHC funded care - which it sounds like you got in the end (well done on that btw - absolutely loads of people should get that but have a nightmare fighting for it!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: It’s my job mate - setting up packages of care for people to return home from Hospital, and if they can’t go home helping them to find a Care home that can meet their needs and arranging the funding. Probably have 2-3 people into care homes every week. I work with lots of self funders, some of them are very focused on getting their loved ones into high quality homes. There are absolutely better homes out there that the council simply won’t fund but self funders go to all the time. There are also self funders who’s family still put them in cheap homes on the home that they croak and there’ll be a load left over. Unfortunately it’s a post code lottery like lots of things - if you live in an area that’s generally very poor, it’s probably unlikely to have many high end homes. Its also a postcode lottery trying to get CHC funded care - which it sounds like you got in the end (well done on that btw - absolutely loads of people should get that but have a nightmare fighting for it!). I am with you all the way on this Lloyd if you have the money you should pay. I presume if i have no money I get the cheapest deal. If i have a few £100k in the bank (or house value) can I choose a better standard of home and will the council contribute towards the cost? If I can and the money runs out what happens then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, oowee said: I am with you all the way on this Lloyd if you have the money you should pay. I presume if i have no money I get the cheapest deal. If i have a few £100k in the bank (or house value) can I choose a better standard of home and will the council contribute towards the cost? If I can and the money runs out what happens then? Then you will most likely get shipped out down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) If a person has a recognised illness such as dementia the NHS is obliged to pay for their care home and its not means tested, its called CHC. (Continuing Health Care). Very often NHS staff routinely deny the existence of CHC and tell families their relative is not entitled to have their care funded when they are. They try to palm them off onto the Council. However, if you employ the services of a specialist solicitor such as Compass to fight your case, suddenly all the problems may magically disappear and the NHS coughs up, assuming the case is valid. www.continuing-healthcare.co.uk Edited October 13, 2018 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, oowee said: I am with you all the way on this Lloyd if you have the money you should pay. I presume if i have no money I get the cheapest deal. If i have a few £100k in the bank (or house value) can I choose a better standard of home and will the council contribute towards the cost? If I can and the money runs out what happens then? If you have a few £100k, you can choose whatever home you can afford and has a place for you, but the local authority will contribute nothing until you have less than £23k, apart from funding 12 week's care to enable you to realise your assets. They can also lend you the care costs (charging interest) against the sale of (say) your house or shares, but that loan has to be repaid. When the money runs out, it depends whether or not the local authority will fund you at that particular home (probably not), then you are shipped out to a local authority funded sink-hole home. If, of course, you require nursing care then the NHS will pay the cost, but the qualification rules on that are pretty tight. See Vince's comments above. Edited October 13, 2018 by amateur clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, amateur said: If you have a few £100k, you can choose whatever home you can afford and has a place for you, but the local authority will contribute nothing until you have less than £23k. When the money runs out, it depends whether or not the local authority will fund you at that particular home (probably not), then you are shipped out to a local authority funded sink-hole home. If, of course, you require nursing care then the NHS will pay the cost, but the qualification rules on that are pretty tight. See Vince's comments above. I believe it to be the case that if the person has been in the home for two years when their money runs out the council can't ship them out ( Human Rights, the home has become their abode). Although a lot of Councils will no doubt try it on. We are just coming to that stage with a 101 year old great aunt, it will be interesting to see how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Vince Green said: I believe it to be the case that if the person has been in the home for two years when their money runs out the council can't ship them out ( Human Rights, the home has become their abode). Although a lot of Councils will no doubt try it on. We are just coming to that stage with a 101 year old great aunt, it will be interesting to see how it turns out. Please post the results on that - it may apply with us too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 8 hours ago, oowee said: I am with you all the way on this Lloyd if you have the money you should pay. I presume if i have no money I get the cheapest deal. If i have a few £100k in the bank (or house value) can I choose a better standard of home and will the council contribute towards the cost? If I can and the money runs out what happens then? Depends how much you have, and what type of home you need. If there’s a nursing element (funded nursing care) then that is paid for by the NHS even if your a self funder. Re when the money runs out - that depends on how long you’ve lived there, and how much the placement costs. If youve self funded several years and very much consider the place your home, then you could argue that the council should fund you to stay there until your end. This is something that regularly happens. However as said it depends on the cost - most self funders pick a nice home with good staff but one that isn’t ridiculous. They often manage to get funding from the council to stay there when their money runs out. If the place costs ridiculous money though then normally you’d be asked to look at other options, as they money could be used to fund several peoples placements not just yours unfortunately. It’s kind of there to avoid people who are barely above the threshold sticking themselves in £5,000 a week super luxury placements and then demanding the tax payer pick up the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Vince Green said: If a person has a recognised illness such as dementia the NHS is obliged to pay for their care home and its not means tested, its called CHC. (Continuing Health Care). Very often NHS staff routinely deny the existence of CHC and tell families their relative is not entitled to have their care funded when they are. They try to palm them off onto the Council. However, if you employ the services of a specialist solicitor such as Compass to fight your case, suddenly all the problems may magically disappear and the NHS coughs up, assuming the case is valid. www.continuing-healthcare.co.uk Unfortunately Vince it’s not quite as simple as just having dementia or another illness and your funded - there are many criteria to be met such as complexity, intensity etc etc. Many people have dementia but manage to live for many years at home without support and are quite happy doing so. There is a serious problem however that lots of people do appear to have solely health related needs and are frequently declined CHC funded care. It’s a constant battle. Certainly worth looking into for anyone in that situation - I believe panorama did a special show about it not that’s long ago saying how no one ever meets the criteria for funded care. Once again though it’s a post code lottery - in one area they can give it to almost novody whilst just down the road into anther county their CHC May be much fairer and a few people get it when they meet the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: Unfortunately Vince it’s not quite as simple as just having dementia or another illness and your funded - there are many criteria to be met such as complexity, intensity etc etc. Many people have dementia but manage to live for many years at home without support and are quite happy doing so. There is a serious problem however that lots of people do appear to have solely health related needs and are frequently declined CHC funded care. It’s a constant battle. Certainly worth looking into for anyone in that situation - I believe panorama did a special show about it not that’s long ago saying how no one ever meets the criteria for funded care. Once again though it’s a post code lottery - in one area they can give it to almost novody whilst just down the road into anther county their CHC May be much fairer and a few people get it when they meet the criteria. This is why getting a specialist solicitor on the case is so important, and so effective. Look at the financial pros and cons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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