panoma1 Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: A muppet I work with has failed to get himself registered at either doctor or dentist for at least 7 years now. When he turned up at one of the walk in centres late last year he was told to go away and register rather than waste their time. Why would he register with a GP when he can get free, quicker, more specialist care, with instant admission if required!.....Via the local hospital A&E? 😡It's selfish queue jumping, exactly what health tourists are doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 20 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: I often wonder if all those who are wrongly waiting in A+E would be there if they had to pay a proportion of the cost, maybe £35 as a starting point. Even £5 would solve it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 21 hours ago, Jaymo said: Do you honestly think that solving the health tourist issue, will solve the rest of the NHS demand issues, then your seriously deluded. Yes, there should be a charge, nothing excessive and certainly not the true costs of the procedure ( when I was working for the NHS way way back, a CABG ‘Coronary Artery Bypass Graft’ was £11k, just for the procedure and not the aftercare). You might say why not, but think on this - say it’s a young child who is on holiday in the UK who subsequently suffers an aneurysm. Would you tell the parents it’s “save your child but it’s going to cost you £30k” or are you thinking of having an ‘allowable’ set circumstances in which payment isn’t required? Hey, we could go full apartheid if you wish? Perhaps all tourists should have arranged travel / health insurance bfore boarding a flight here? Or crossing the Channel? Outside of Europe, "free health care is scarce, and often very expensive. When I travel to the USA, I always make sure my insurances are up to date, and capable of handling emergencies. If I can do it, why not others? I believe we should make it a requirement of getting a visa here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 Most visas for extended stays in the UK (over 6 months) now carry an NHS surcharge that must be paid before the visa is applied for. Its about £200 per year the visa is valid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lord v said: Most visas for extended stays in the UK (over 6 months) now carry an NHS surcharge that must be paid before the visa is applied for. Its about £200 per year the visa is valid for. £200 for unlimited medical treatment seems good value for money to me.....could a U.K. Citizen opt out of paying the NHS part of the mandatory National Insurance contribution and pay the £200pa instead? 🤕 The answer has surely got to be, no foreign national enters the UK without adequate medical insurance, if they have an existing medical condition that they have not declared and their insurance company refuses to cover it, then why should the UK NHS? Illegals and those without insurance get emergency treatment only...........and deportation after! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, panoma1 said: £200 for unlimited medical treatment seems good value for money to me.....could a U.K. Citizen opt out of paying the NHS part of the mandatory National Insurance contribution and pay the £200pa instead? 🤕 The answer has surely got to be, no foreign national enters the UK without adequate medical insurance, if they have an existing medical condition that they have not declared and their insurance company refuses to cover it, then why should the UK NHS? Illegals and those without insurance get emergency treatment only...........and deportation after! ? £200 for unlimited treatment is good value but that is not what they are paying for. It's £200 as insurance just in cas then it does not sound such good value compared to what you can get on the high street. How would we check tourists had insurance? How would we know if it was adequate? Maybe we could get them screened 🙂 Don't get me wrong I agree in principle with the concept the question is how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, oowee said: ? £200 for unlimited treatment is good value but that is not what they are paying for. It's £200 as insurance just in cas then it does not sound such good value compared to what you can get on the high street. How would we check tourists had insurance? How would we know if it was adequate? Maybe we could get them screened 🙂 Don't get me wrong I agree in principle with the concept the question is how. I only suggested what could be done.......how to do it is above my pay grade! 🤔 18 minutes ago, oowee said: How would we check tourists had insurance? How would we know if it was adequate? On reflection......Cover note? X number of £ of personal cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 22 minutes ago, panoma1 said: I only suggested what could be done.......how to do it is above my pay grade! 🤔 On reflection......Cover note? X number of £ of personal cover? I like your earlier suggestion it's emergency cover only. After that you are out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 Do what they do in Spain or most of the EU or infact world do... emergency and life saving treatment given, now if you want to stay there are a few options....so you have an EHIC card you say..... well done we will give you an itemised bill when you leave so you can claim it back when you get home, for now it’s credit card or insurance details please. Doesn’t seem that hard for a majority of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, oowee said: I like your earlier suggestion it's emergency cover only. After that you are out the door. That emergency NHS treatment only, applies to foreign nationals that are uninsured and/or are here illegally.....I'd even suggest the illegals are made to pay for their ticket (deportation) back to their country of origin! That might deter them from taking the **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted January 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 26/01/2019 at 12:07, Old Boggy said: My wife has just received a letter from the NHS regarding a future appointment and attached was this letter. It would appear that we could well be treating a good percentage of the world ...... Free OB As a rider to my original post, my wife worked for the NHS for 35 years before retiring and worked with some wonderful foreign doctors and consultants. I would add here that the NHS would crumble if it weren`t for such dedicated people from other countries. However, in her latter time working, she did witness the doctors and consultants bringing many of their foreign living relatives (and friends) over here for treatment on the basis that they (the doctors) agreed to pay for the treatment. Treatment was duly received but payment was not, neither was any serious attempt made by the NHS to recoup the lost revenue. Not sure what the current situation is, so cannot comment further, only say what she saw first hand at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) On 26/01/2019 at 18:59, panoma1 said: If the NHS/government could sort the health tourists out, and make them pay the full cost of their treatment up front!............ They sorted out my mate. Sixty nine or seventy years old, but hadn't lived in the UK for a long time. He got sick over here in Saudi but basically had nobody to take care of him when he was discharged (his leg was stuffed and he couldn't get around) So he got a flight back to the UK where he had family, and while recuperating, he had a relapse. He went to the local hospital and when he told them that he was on sick leave from Saudi.they basically told him to p**** off Literally put him out on the street. He flew back here again a couple of days later to get treatment but on the flight he lost blood circulation to his gammy leg. He was taken straight into hospital but there were complications and he died two days later. He'd paid into the UK system for the best part of 20 years, and was as English as could be but that made no difference. - legally a non-resident so no treatment. He was a good man. Had some great stories - told me once that when he was social secretary at Kings College in London back in '69 or whenever, he got censured by the NUS committee for booking unknown bands...the band in question being a young Led Zeppelin! My father worked for the NHS for 40 years and like my friend I also paid UK taxes as a single man for more than 20, but they'd treat me the same way. To hell with them. Edited January 27, 2019 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 43 minutes ago, Retsdon said: They sorted out my mate. Sixty nine or seventy years old, but hadn't lived in the UK for a long time. He got sick over here in Saudi but basically had nobody to take care of him when he was discharged (his leg was stuffed and he couldn't get around) So he got a flight back to the UK where he had family, and while recuperating, he had a relapse. He went to the local hospital and when he told them that he was on sick leave from Saudi.they basically told him to p**** off Literally put him out on the street. He flew back here again a couple of days later to get treatment but on the flight he lost blood circulation to his gammy leg. He was taken straight into hospital but there were complications and he died two days later. He'd paid into the UK system for the best part of 20 years, and was as English as could be but that made no difference. - legally a non-resident so no treatment. He was a good man. Had some great stories - told me once that when he was social secretary at Kings College in London back in '69 or whenever, he got censured by the NUS committee for booking unknown bands...the band in question being a young Led Zeppelin! My father worked for the NHS for 40 years and like my friend I also paid UK taxes as a single man for more than 20, but they'd treat me the same way. To hell with them. That's shocking! Did he get advice and appeal the decision? Did he get healthcare in Saudi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 The NHS is an amazing institution, full of faults desperately overstretched and underfunded, but still the envy of virtually the whole world. As evidenced by the vast number of tourists using the system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 hours ago, ph5172 said: Do what they do in Spain or most of the EU or infact world do... emergency and life saving treatment given, now if you want to stay there are a few options....so you have an EHIC card you say..... well done we will give you an itemised bill when you leave so you can claim it back when you get home, for now it’s credit card or insurance details please. Doesn’t seem that hard for a majority of the world. But for some unfathomable reason that seems beyond the comprehension of our masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dekers said: The NHS is an amazing institution, full of faults desperately overstretched and underfunded, but still the envy of virtually the whole world. As evidenced by the vast number of tourists using the system! The NHS was merely an experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Did he get advice and appeal the decision? Did he get healthcare in Saudi? He wasn't really in a position to wait around - that's why he flew back to Saudi. Yes, he got healthcare here - free through work (although he'd been sick he was still employed as a teacher at the university). As I said, he'd already been treated here but had gone to the UK when he came out of hospital to recuperate with his family. But by the time he got back, as I say, his leg had gone gangrenous and I don't think by that point he had much will to live. It was only a couple of days after he got back he died. You're right. Pretty depressing chain of events. I might add, he always wore a poppy on Remembrance Day too. Nobody much does here, because they're impossible to find, but he had one he'd pin on every year. We swapped father stories once, and his father had been with Slim fighting the Japanese. Edited January 27, 2019 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 28 minutes ago, old man said: The NHS was merely an experiment. No it wasn't. As I said above, my father worked for the NHS for virtually all his professional life. I asked him once why he didn't do private practice, because he would almost certainly have made more money. His reply was that private practice was fine if you had an acute condition, or you needed a one-off operation like a hip replacement or something, but the problem with it was that if you were old or chronically sick the insurance companies didn't want to know you. There's no doubt that for my father and other doctors who signed up for the NHS at its inception, it was never meant to be an experiment. They really believed that decent health care should be universally available and not dependent on the depth of ones pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 On 26/01/2019 at 12:07, Old Boggy said: My wife has just received a letter from the NHS regarding a future appointment and attached was this letter. It would appear that we could well be treating a good percentage of the world ...... Free OB Forgive my ignorance but where does it say we are treating a good percentage of the world for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, henry d said: Forgive my ignorance but where does it say we are treating a good percentage of the world for free? Department for health said the bill for 2015 - 2016 for EEC Nationals was 340 million with a maximum of 240million recoverable due to the current arrangements that doesn’t include the rest of the world that is estimated at 114 million but upto 300 million if you include dentistry and gp care the estimated cost of deliberate health tourism is between 100-280 million a year (a lot being those British nationals who live abroad permanently they travel back) it’s apparently difficult to actually estimate due to some services being completely free (gp consultancy) and those arriving with ‘deliberate acute illness’ that report direct to casualty according to Channel 4 and uk independent fact checking Edited January 27, 2019 by ph5172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, ph5172 said: a lot being those British nationals who live abroad permanently they travel back How many of those paid taxes for most of their lives in the UK before they left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 What I don't get is why those that have alternative arrangements do not get tax relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Retsdon said: How many of those paid taxes for most of their lives in the UK before they left? Probably quite a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, oowee said: What I don't get is why those that have alternative arrangements do not get tax relief. The financial burden of the NHS is shared pro rata based on what an individual earns, everyone is entitled to access the NHS equally, if someone is fortunate to earn enough to get private treatment or afford private health insurance......they buy a service which enables them to get the benefit of faster treatment and jump the queue ahead of others in need! That is their choice....But should they fall on hard times or decide to use the NHS its there for them, that's their choice too! Regardless of if an individual accesses it it or not, now or in the future, it still has to financed and be there for everyone! We don't pay for the NH Service as much as we pay for it to be there, when and if we need it! The NHS cannot and should not be financed solely by those that can't afford private medical care, which is what you seem to be suggesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, ph5172 said: Department for health said the bill for 2015 - 2016 for EEC Nationals was 340 million with a maximum of 240million recoverable due to the current arrangements that doesn’t include the rest of the world that is estimated at 114 million but upto 300 million if you include dentistry and gp care the estimated cost of deliberate health tourism is between 100-280 million a year (a lot being those British nationals who live abroad permanently they travel back) it’s apparently difficult to actually estimate due to some services being completely free (gp consultancy) and those arriving with ‘deliberate acute illness’ that report direct to casualty according to Channel 4 and uk independent fact checking Interesting figures. If we take the top of that range case, so £280m, that covers the cost of running NHS England for about 16 hours. Or to put it another way, if deliberate health tourism was eliminated it would save 0.002% of NHS England budget. I would suggest there are bigger things to get worked up about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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