Stuck bolt

[Benthejockey]

Went to check zero on the 243 after missing a Fox the other day. First shot at 50yds bang on. 2 and 3 out at 100 were 2 inches high. Strange but I adjusted and tried number 4. Funny bang, very smoky, a load of **** blew back in my face and I duly missed. Went to lift the bolt and it was stuck right down. Managed to get it to lift with a bit of a whack with my palm but couldn’t get it to slide or eject. So firstly how do I get the bolt to slide and eject? And secondly what do we summise has gone wrong? Yes it was a reload but it’s a tried and tested recipe. I use the Lee loader kit including the dipper which I know a lot of people don’t like but up until this round I’ve been happy with it. 34.3gr (2.5cc dipper charge weighed every 5th one) H4895, fiocchi primers and Winchester brass having its first or second reload. 62gr Barnes varmint grenade. The charge is very conservative but it’s been adequate and very accurate to date. OAL is 2.6 I think. I haven’t changed anything so I’m confused. 

[Walker570]

Way above max load it sounds to me. DO NOT USE A DIPPER FOR LOADING RIFLE OR PISTOL CARTRIDGES,   buy a set of scales, a good set your life may depend on them.  If your load is max in the book then it does not take much to go over.  Used to load 38 Special for training purposes at Aston way back in the late 70s/early 80s and blew the backstrap up into the ceiling, fortunately no injuries, loading with a dipper and on that occasion double loaded. I think you have been very fortunate too Ben.   Bite the bullet...... intended pun....visit a gunsmith, as you may have wrecked the rifle.

Reading your description the previous shot HAD gone down range ?????? so nothing left in the barrel.  A blockage could cause similar.

2 inches is a bit high at 100 but I always have all of mine 1 1/2inches high and then no calculations out to in the region of 250 to 270.    1 1/2 high at 100 and the fox wil not notice the difference.

VERY pleased you survived the experience to share on here and let us know what the gusmith finds.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Walker570

[Benthejockey]

My first reaction would be that it’s an over charge but 34.3 is a very conservative load and I weigh every 5th one. I looked back through my records and there’s an average difference of +-0.4 grains. And when I first started reloading I weighed every charge so it’s a very calculated average. I know the dipper isn’t the most accurate thing ever made but I do it the same way each time to a satisfactory level of accuracy especially when working with this load. I’ve shot the thick end of 400 of this recipe up to today. So I don’t think it’s a heavy charge. Definitely no blockage before hand, the bullet left the barrel and I saw the cloud of dust in the backstop behind the target after the strike. If you were closer Neville I’d nip round to yours and let you have a look. 

[Dougy]

Whatever the cause Ben I would certainly not use the dibbers, the price of a decent balance scale around £50 2nd hand is a no brainer.

It could have been caused by any number of things, we can all summise and chuck in our 10pence worth. 

[Benthejockey]

I’ll get it to the gunsmiths and see what they say. 

[oowee]

That's pretty scary stuff. Good you are OK. I understand what people are saying re the scales and I certainly use a balance, and a digital as a set up sense check but there are thousands of rounds loaded with dippers. It sounds like you had a fairly careful regime in place so it should be good. What do you do to avoid a double load? 

[Harnser]

You might try pushing a cleaning rod down the barrel from the muzzle end and gently tapping the rod to push bolt back and eject the empty . I all ways used to weigh all myrifle loads with out exception .

harnser

 

[Walker570]

Doubtful you would get a double load in a 243, pistol cases it is possible as I said.  Things like this hopefully make us all, experienced or just beginners step back a pace and think. Next time your loading be double consistent and careful...I even tell my wife not to disturb me when I am loading ammo and turn off my phone.  I look forward to seeing that case when it comes out.

I even weigh individual powder fills with my 410 loads, takes a touch longer but I have the time fortunately.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Walker570

[Good shot?]

Strange the same happened to me today using Hornady Sp 50 gr in my cz 222.

At end of a quiet day I decided to put a few shots out to 250 yards.Used last few of a box and no problem. Then used first five of a new  box (same batch no.) and  last two or three seemed to fire high and need no hold over (I zero at 1.5” high at 100 yards) and had difficulty lifting bolt and hard to withdraw and eject .

I reloaded spent cases and lifting and withdrawal was very tight.

packed up then but suspect I have a hot batch.

I would also very much appreciate any suggestions.

PS. No noticeable difference when firing other than firing higher than expected.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Good shot?
Ps

[rem708]

I would look at the two cases from the two shots that hit high. Look at the primers! Compare to others. I suspect they are going to be very flat with metal flow around the firing pin divot.

If flat then you have some over pressure event. 100 such reasons for this and as has been suggested over charging is a prime reason. I've heard of some powders - vihtavuori - not being temperature stable although its not been exactly hot these past weeks. I've had powder, again vihtavuori, go off on me! and would stick in the powder flask! thus candidate for under and overcharging.

What ever the cause get the rifle to a gunsmith for checking and maybe re-proofing (mind you sounds like you have already done that 😄 )

[Good shot?]

Thanks for that Rem708.

I can understand your suggestion of reproofing after this event, however my concern at this point is with regard to the ammunition I now have (all the same batch number) ,would you return it to the supplier for exchange?

[snow white]

How do you clean your cases if using Mede or some other material you might have had a bit left in case which would take up some space that would lead to that happening I use Mede and one of my cases would not take all the powder I emptied it out and there was some Mede left in I now double check every case.

[Benthejockey]

Now Rem708 you might be into something there. The tub has been open for a good while. Probably 18 months or more. Obviously with the lid on. 

[John_R]

If stored in the right conditions the powder shouldn't have gone off even if open. 

Is there any chance you had a charge that was under the minimum?  That's also dangerous.

Whatever happens it's good that you weren't hurt and I hope you get it all sorted out. 

[activeviii]

Possibly a split case. It's stuck because the side of case has blown all the crud down the sides of the case and wedged it tight.

 

Can be a few reason but without looking no one will really know, just best guess

[Benthejockey]

I finally got chance to have a look at the poor old girl this afternoon. Took the scope off and with more room to manoeuvre a bit of a whack with my palm and I managed to get it to slide the bolt back. Got the case out and as we are all in agreement of there had been a pressure spike. The primer had flowed, flattened and cratered, the primer pocket had stretched and the case head was indented from the ejectors. All signs of an over pressure incident. BUT I am certain I didn’t over charge it. For starters it’s a conservative load albeit listed by Lee but if you compare it to the hogdon data it’s very conservative. And secondly I doubt I’d get 68.6gr of powder into the case - I’d have to check but I doubt it. Which led me to do a bit of thinking and research. And thankfully our American friends do a good line in trying to blow themselves up regularly and like to document it. The one bloke carries a dead blow hammer with him in his range bag just in case!!! What I think has happened is I’ve had a flash fire which has caused a pressure spike and jammed the bolt up. For anyone reading this in several years time because they’ve filled their pants because of an incident like this; normally the primer is ignited and the fire travels from back to front at a set speed which causes pressure to force the bullet up and out of the barrel. What I’m calling a flash fire is when the primer sets fire to the powered but instead of a controlled burn the whole surface area is ignited and instead of a controlled burn it all goes off together which spikes the pressure, in my case jams the bolt and in the worst cases takes your head off. Now this is a ****** because 34.3g - a 2.5cc dipper of H4895 has been very disagreeable to a huge number of foxes, crows and pigeons. I was shooting bottle tops at 100yds with this load. It’s also not good because I had only last week loaded 100 cartridges with this load that I’m now going to have to sit and pull apart. Also it’s going to cost me to get the gun given a service and once over by the gunsmith. But I’ve still got all my fingers and my good looks so it’s not all bad. Once it’s been looked at I will at the least be using a set of digital scales, I will probably upgrade to a bench mounted reloading set rather than the Lee loader and I’ll try a new and improved load that isn’t going to blow me or my favourite gun up. She’s only an old bsa but I do love the old girl. 

[John_R]

I remain of the opinion your powder charge was too low, indeed a quick peek in the Lee book suggests as much, also some old Hodgson data says starting load is 38 grains.

[Walker570]

4 hours ago, Benthejockey said:

I finally got chance to have a look at the poor old girl this afternoon. Took the scope off and with more room to manoeuvre a bit of a whack with my palm and I managed to get it to slide the bolt back. Got the case out and as we are all in agreement of there had been a pressure spike. The primer had flowed, flattened and cratered, the primer pocket had stretched and the case head was indented from the ejectors. All signs of an over pressure incident. BUT I am certain I didn’t over charge it. For starters it’s a conservative load albeit listed by Lee but if you compare it to the hogdon data it’s very conservative. And secondly I doubt I’d get 68.6gr of powder into the case - I’d have to check but I doubt it. Which led me to do a bit of thinking and research. And thankfully our American friends do a good line in trying to blow themselves up regularly and like to document it. The one bloke carries a dead blow hammer with him in his range bag just in case!!! What I think has happened is I’ve had a flash fire which has caused a pressure spike and jammed the bolt up. For anyone reading this in several years time because they’ve filled their pants because of an incident like this; normally the primer is ignited and the fire travels from back to front at a set speed which causes pressure to force the bullet up and out of the barrel. What I’m calling a flash fire is when the primer sets fire to the powered but instead of a controlled burn the whole surface area is ignited and instead of a controlled burn it all goes off together which spikes the pressure, in my case jams the bolt and in the worst cases takes your head off. Now this is a ****** because 34.3g - a 2.5cc dipper of H4895 has been very disagreeable to a huge number of foxes, crows and pigeons. I was shooting bottle tops at 100yds with this load. It’s also not good because I had only last week loaded 100 cartridges with this load that I’m now going to have to sit and pull apart. Also it’s going to cost me to get the gun given a service and once over by the gunsmith. But I’ve still got all my fingers and my good looks so it’s not all bad. Once it’s been looked at I will at the least be using a set of digital scales, I will probably upgrade to a bench mounted reloading set rather than the Lee loader and I’ll try a new and improved load that isn’t going to blow me or my favourite gun up. She’s only an old bsa but I do love the old girl. 

I'm not so sure about the good looks but my wife was impressed ....." Nice polite young man that "  she said when you left, no mention of 'looks'

Have you changed the primers?  Do you use standard or magnum primers ?  Do you use different primers for different calibres/cartridges?    A near max or max load plus a hot primer can also cause a serious rise in pressure.    A friend of mine had a new box of Sako factory cartridges and he experienced primers popping loose and enlargement of the primer pocket. Sent them back to the importer and never got a reply.  So even the factory can make mistakes.  Pleased you survived the incident unhurt Ben and hope the rifle is undamaged.

Nah!!  I'm kidding he aint a bad looking lad really.

[Robertt]

I used 75g bullets in a 243 with H4895.

My load was 1/2 g less than listed max.

Using different cases and or primers did not display any pressure spikes.

Are you 100 % certain a diffent power was not involved.

I only know of one incident similar to yours and that was caused by the wrong powder and unfortunately it led to fingers being lost and injury to a third party.

 

[matone]

Would agree with prior posts about weighing every charge when using the Lee Loaders.Always did this using them to load .222,.22/250 and .243 over last 30 yrs and never had a problem.

I`ve seen a rifle wrecked  by an overpressure  factory load and your symptoms sound like a slightly milder result of the same .

[snow white]

I asked you the other day how do you clean your cases if using Mede of any discrpsion I think you have had a piece left in case take up volume you would not notice it when putting powder in.

A lad named spud on a reloading forum had it happen to him that’s why I all ways check every case before I start to reload 

[John_R]