"mainly" nige's puffer

[ditchman]

Still waiting for a bit of antler for dead eye alan's knife wot i have got...............

so i thought i would start on Whitebridges Mercury S .22..........took it apart and it was not in good condition.....it was missing the buffer washer (shocker absorber) twixt the piston and ram.also full of grit and grease..to put it on you have to assemble the items together and put them in a press ...squeeze them until the hole lines up and then drift the pin in............the piston had deformed that much i broke 2 punches trying to get the pin out.........so as you can see i had to cut the damn thing off..........the ram is deburred and polished and the barrel is sanded and polished...

decieded i would make a set of tools up which included an abore to chamfer the port out with and buffing and sanding tools to do the barrel (compression chamber) with...........

i shall be stripping ...staining ...and oiling the walnut stock....fitting sling hooks to the butt and the barrel....my mate the butcher will make the simple leather sling with nice smooth brass buckles....nige has bought and delivered a new smaller scope for it...the same as he has on his Stutzen.......

so im wainting for a couple of parts now and i will progress.............

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well done Mate, we were wondering what you were doing to keep you out of mischief!

[Walker570]

Tidy job as always but never boring.

[washerboy]

The gun I always wanted, I had an airsporter and hated it. 

[Whitebridges]

Ditchy, i'm so sorry it's turned out to be such a cow's **** on the inside ! 

Thanks for posting the pictures, makes one wonder how anything ever left the barrel in the state it was in.  

You're working miracles. I'll get you booked in for a hand wash at Ludham Lucy's. 

  

[Whitebridges]

On 19/03/2019 at 17:36, washerboy said:

The gun I always wanted, I had an airsporter and hated it. 

I'm the same. I used one for a while years ago and loved it. Near on two years ago Ditchy and I talked about the Mercury "S" and we both said we would try and source one each. He's got the .177 version and it's a stunner. It was a bit of a wreck but he's made it.... eh superb. I only managed to get the one he's working on recently. I looked a so many abused ones. As it turns out this rifle is hardly sound inside. 

Our view on the good ol' Mercury S is that if the Birmingham factory had done the quality control properly and finished the gun to a high standard they would still be making guns and would have kept the German makers out of the market ( largely Weihrauch and Feinwerkbau ). Simon tells me that the design of the Merc S is superb and the only reason they went down the toilet is QA and not price. Sickening isn't it? A British manufacturer gone **** up for not paying due care and attention.           

[rovercoupe]

Those piston cylinders are super hard so if the buffer is gone it must have been a rough shot cycle. 

Just spent two days on a airsporter going the whole nine yards on it in terms of a longer stroke and parachute seal and it shoots much nicer but refuses to make anything over 10.5 ftlbs. Need to have a go on the merc sometime and take out the o ring head and do it properly.

[ditchman]

40 minutes ago, rovercoupe said:

Those piston cylinders are super hard so if the buffer is gone it must have been a rough shot cycle. 

Just spent two days on a airsporter going the whole nine yards on it in terms of a longer stroke and parachute seal and it shoots much nicer but refuses to make anything over 10.5 ftlbs. Need to have a go on the merc sometime and take out the o ring head and do it properly.

the "buffer" was never put in by the last person to fiddle with it..........proberly didnt have the press/cramp to squeeze it together...........im putting in a new uprated spring in it   and am using the weakest ox-spring a #1...it is 2.5cm longer than the standard merc spring ...so it should bring it up to close 12ft/lbs..........11.8ft/lbs is what they are known to operate at nicely.........when i did mine i put in (recomended) titian XS spring........the ft/lb'age went insane and the accuracy was total rubbish...........

Edited March 19, 2019 by ditchman

[washerboy]

1 hour ago, Whitebridges said:

I'm the same. I used one for a while years ago and loved it. Near on two years ago Ditchy and I talked about the Mercury "S" and we both said we would try and source one each. He's got the .177 version and it's a stunner. It was a bit of a wreck but he's made it.... eh superb. I only managed to get the one he's working on recently. I looked a so many abused ones. As it turns out this rifle is hardly sound inside. 

Our view on the good ol' Mercury S is that if the Birmingham factory had done the quality control properly and finished the gun to a high standard they would still be making guns and would have kept the German makers out of the market ( largely Weihrauch and Feinwerkbau ). Simon tells me that the design of the Merc S is superb and the only reason they went down the toilet is QA and not price. Sickening isn't it? A British manufacturer gone t*ts up for not paying due care and attention.           

Suppose its the same with a lot of British firms, I've shot a few gamo made guns are they aren't as bad as a lot of folks think . Bsa triggers were never the best anyway or Webley so nothing has changed since both fled abroad 

Edited March 19, 2019 by washerboy

[Stonepark]

25 minutes ago, ditchman said:

the "buffer" was never put in by the last person to fiddle with it..........proberly didnt have the press/cramp to squeeze it together...........im putting in a new uprated spring in it   and am using the weakest ox-spring a #1...it is 2.5cm longer than the standard merc spring ...so it should bring it up to close 12ft/lbs..........11.8ft/lbs is what they are known to operate at nicely.........when i did mine i put in (recomended) titian XS spring........the ft/lb'age went insane and the accuracy was total rubbish...........

Last airsporter I did, instead of the No1 Titan, I put a No10 instead and it made a very nice cycling gun.

[rovercoupe]

2 hours ago, ditchman said:

the "buffer" was never put in by the last person to fiddle with it..........proberly didnt have the press/cramp to squeeze it together...........im putting in a new uprated spring in it   and am using the weakest ox-spring a #1...it is 2.5cm longer than the standard merc spring ...so it should bring it up to close 12ft/lbs..........11.8ft/lbs is what they are known to operate at nicely.........when i did mine i put in (recomended) titian XS spring........the ft/lb'age went insane and the accuracy was total rubbish...........

Are you going for a o ring head? Someone mentioned to me about a "export head" which was like the ally one but shallower and steel for a bit of extra piston weight. Never seen one in the flesh but would like to do one in phosphor bronze if it wasn't so expensive! 

I have a airsporter with a Diana parachute conversion and it's really nice to shoot but just in the tens on power so thought a bit more volume would bring the project one up a bit but no matter what Spring went in, a std as, ox, and cut down ss one it would not go any further on power it just got worse to shoot so left the cut one in for now. 

I like the internal polishing, is there a de burring stage to get the nibs off the cocking slot? Had one cut the o ring up badly before.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, rovercoupe said:

Are you going for a o ring head? Someone mentioned to me about a "export head" which was like the ally one but shallower and steel for a bit of extra piston weight. Never seen one in the flesh but would like to do one in phosphor bronze if it wasn't so expensive! 

I have a airsporter with a Diana parachute conversion and it's really nice to shoot but just in the tens on power so thought a bit more volume would bring the project one up a bit but no matter what Spring went in, a std as, ox, and cut down ss one it would not go any further on power it just got worse to shoot so left the cut one in for now. 

I like the internal polishing, is there a de burring stage to get the nibs off the cocking slot? Had one cut the o ring up badly before.

it will have the "o" ring...and i will burnish it inside with a mix of moly and graphite powder....then a little dab around the "O" ring.....the cocking slot is deburred...damn they are all wicked sharp and i have used a small dremel to chamfer the internal where  the cylinder meets the o ring as it slides in......i end up redrilling with titanium drills everything and also deburr...every operation the factory has carried out........the worst is the detante lock.........the drilling out and smoothing are bloody abysmal....the factory couldnt even be bothered to take the swarfe out of the detante hole............anhd my merc was excactly the same and a few years between them...............

[Whitebridges]

13 hours ago, ditchman said:

it will have the "o" ring...and i will burnish it inside with a mix of moly and graphite powder....then a little dab around the "O" ring.....the cocking slot is deburred...damn they are all wicked sharp and i have used a small dremel to chamfer the internal where  the cylinder meets the o ring as it slides in......i end up redrilling with titanium drills everything and also deburr...every operation the factory has carried out........the worst is the detante lock.........the drilling out and smoothing are bloody abysmal....the factory couldnt even be bothered to take the swarfe out of the detante hole............anhd my merc was excactly the same and a few years between them...............

Very disappointing to read the lack of care during manufacture and assembly. In terms of looks with all the curves in the right places , the Mercury S has to be the best looker of the lot.

[ditchman]

26 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

Very disappointing to read the lack of care during manufacture and assembly. In terms of looks with all the curves in the right places , the Mercury S has to be the best looker of the lot.

its a good design.......it shoots very straight.......handles nicely..........BSA had it excactly right in every detail..............but their manufacturing .....well the owner of BSA and the shop floor manager and the foreman.........should have been sacked............if they had done it right...used sharp tools...good milling cutters..lined the barrel up..put the correct ammout of shims in.....and then all the bits to go in a rack to be handled and de-burred....finished correctly before blueing..............oh and the blueing is soooo thin...they must have thrown it in for 5 mins...................

then QA'ed....assembled...........they would have had a right cracker....like the webley Mk3...........

[rovercoupe]

Is this not the problem with weihrauch now? **** quality control resulting in poor finishing.

now the o rings, how do you size them to the cylinder? The last one I did just chucked one of the three in the pack and got on with it, should it be a tight fit in the cylinder or does a more loose fit and less friction work better? 

[ditchman]

the new o rings i got ...all micrometer measured all the same...3.247mm.....i have used 4 different lubricants.........and using the right one is critical..........it needs to slide nice not too much force ...but nice and tight..........

i do know air rifle fettlers that will thin an o ring out ...until the right amount of weight on the ram pushes it down

[Mice!]

9 hours ago, ditchman said:

its a good design.......it shoots very straight.......handles nicely..........BSA had it excactly right in every detail..............but their manufacturing .....well the owner of BSA and the shop floor manager and the foreman.........should have been sacked............if they had done it right...used sharp tools...good milling cutters..lined the barrel up..put the correct ammout of shims in.....and then all the bits to go in a rack to be handled and de-burred....finished correctly before blueing..............oh and the blueing is soooo thin...they must have thrown it in for 5 mins...................

then QA'ed....assembled...........they would have had a right cracker....like the webley Mk3...........

wouldn't surprise me if the guys on the machines were supposed to debur the parts, the guys on the bench having been got rid of in a cost cutting exercise? Or semi skilled folk assembling with no care for the finished product.

its amazing how often people on machines will carry using cutters and tools that are goosed, especially if there are big tolerances, and what your describing certainly sounds like poor production, lack of pride in your work, really really annoys me. 

 

[ditchman]

10 hours ago, rovercoupe said:

Is this not the problem with weihrauch now? **** quality control resulting in poor finishing.

now the o rings, how do you size them to the cylinder? The last one I did just chucked one of the three in the pack and got on with it, should it be a tight fit in the cylinder or does a more loose fit and less friction work better? 

my old hw77...is built like a tank......but there is not a single fault i can find with it.......no sharp edges...nice and smooth to cock..........its just very heavy..........

[Whitebridges]

19 hours ago, Mice! said:

wouldn't surprise me if the guys on the machines were supposed to debur the parts, the guys on the bench having been got rid of in a cost cutting exercise? Or semi skilled folk assembling with no care for the finished product.

its amazing how often people on machines will carry using cutters and tools that are goosed, especially if there are big tolerances, and what your describing certainly sounds like poor production, lack of pride in your work, really really annoys me. 

 

A very good post Mice. What we are talking about here is the difference between success and failure. You can make it but if you can't finish it to a high standard, don't bother making it in the first place!   

10 hours ago, ditchman said:

my old hw77...is built like a tank......but there is not a single fault i can find with it.......no sharp edges...nice and smooth to cock..........its just very heavy..........

Ze Germans very good ya at ze brick *****haus but no so smart on design in the hand vis a vis Messerschmitt v Spitfire.   

[washerboy]

My old hw95 was awful, it's inner workings where as rough as a badgers ****. I had it venom tuned(well just after they dropped that name or went separate ways). 

[Mice!]

53 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

A very good post Mice. What we are talking about here is the difference between success and failure. You can make it but if you can't finish it to a high standard, don't bother making it in the first place!   

part of the reason i fancy a pro sport, they look great and I've only ever read good things about them, yet to fondle one though 😉 

[washerboy]

I wish Air arms would produce a break barrel air rifle, internals simalar to the tx300. They did pro elite but it wasn't good at non fac power 

[old man]

On 19/03/2019 at 18:31, Whitebridges said:

I'm the same. I used one for a while years ago and loved it. Near on two years ago Ditchy and I talked about the Mercury "S" and we both said we would try and source one each. He's got the .177 version and it's a stunner. It was a bit of a wreck but he's made it.... eh superb. I only managed to get the one he's working on recently. I looked a so many abused ones. As it turns out this rifle is hardly sound inside. 

Our view on the good ol' Mercury S is that if the Birmingham factory had done the quality control properly and finished the gun to a high standard they would still be making guns and would have kept the German makers out of the market ( largely Weihrauch and Feinwerkbau ). Simon tells me that the design of the Merc S is superb and the only reason they went down the toilet is QA and not price. Sickening isn't it? A British manufacturer gone **** up for not paying due care and attention.           

I detested mine, uselessly erratic groups. Now I know why?

On 19/03/2019 at 18:31, Whitebridges said:

I'm the same. I used one for a while years ago and loved it. Near on two years ago Ditchy and I talked about the Mercury "S" and we both said we would try and source one each. He's got the .177 version and it's a stunner. It was a bit of a wreck but he's made it.... eh superb. I only managed to get the one he's working on recently. I looked a so many abused ones. As it turns out this rifle is hardly sound inside. 

Our view on the good ol' Mercury S is that if the Birmingham factory had done the quality control properly and finished the gun to a high standard they would still be making guns and would have kept the German makers out of the market ( largely Weihrauch and Feinwerkbau ). Simon tells me that the design of the Merc S is superb and the only reason they went down the toilet is QA and not price. Sickening isn't it? A British manufacturer gone **** up for not paying due care and attention.           

They were perhaps the forerunners of the present system where the customer is the quality control?

[old man]

On 20/03/2019 at 13:59, ditchman said:

its a good design.......it shoots very straight.......handles nicely..........BSA had it excactly right in every detail..............but their manufacturing .....well the owner of BSA and the shop floor manager and the foreman.........should have been sacked............if they had done it right...used sharp tools...good milling cutters..lined the barrel up..put the correct ammout of shims in.....and then all the bits to go in a rack to be handled and de-burred....finished correctly before blueing..............oh and the blueing is soooo thin...they must have thrown it in for 5 mins...................

then QA'ed....assembled...........they would have had a right cracker....like the webley Mk3...........

I had the misfortune to be involved in QC in this era fro a while. Brand new factory, all newly equipped and staffed. Mega money spent. A second factory built ready for expansion.

My QC teams were all over, everywhere in the process with stuff pulled for rework/scrap 100% inspection. We could not seem to get the USA distributors complaints down no matter what we did. Eventually it came to light that the works manager went round at shift end and put most of the rejects back through the system when our QC had finished for the day.

As you might guess it didn't end well, out of the blue the owner blew a fuse for some reason and pulled the plug one night 1100 people were jobless. Hey Ho!

 

[Whitebridges]

8 hours ago, old man said:

I had the misfortune to be involved in QC in this era fro a while. Brand new factory, all newly equipped and staffed. Mega money spent. A second factory built ready for expansion.

My QC teams were all over, everywhere in the process with stuff pulled for rework/scrap 100% inspection. We could not seem to get the USA distributors complaints down no matter what we did. Eventually it came to light that the works manager went round at shift end and put most of the rejects back through the system when our QC had finished for the day.

As you might guess it didn't end well, out of the blue the owner blew a fuse for some reason and pulled the plug one night 1100 people were jobless. Hey Ho!

 

Thanks for your insight, so were you involved in gun manufacturing? Or something else?

I suspect the works manager was targeted to deliver a certain number of units per day irrespective of the quality of them.