985 pigeons in a day

[mossy835]

same as me they all know at work i shoot, only about 3 in my street know i have guns.best way to keep it.

[kitchrat]

17 hours ago, motty said:

Gun owners may be in the minority, but the majority of the general public don't oppose shooting. For instance, I am the only gun owner on my street (as far as I am aware). Most people on my street know that I shoot live quarry and have no problem with it. Same with the people I work with.

The "Urban Majority" have no idea about anything outside their tiny, social-media-led lives. They see no need to own guns (why would you need a Perazzi in London?)  and can be easily led to oppose them, fuelled by pictures of shooters "boasting" about a heap of dead "poor little birds" (just like those on my bird table), "slaughtered for fun" over a stubble field where they were "doing no harm".

We know the truth but Packham and his followers have no interest in the truth.

It's the same with electric cars. "Why would you need a vehicle with a range of more than 50 miles? Work is just round the corner. A pick up truck?? In the city?? OK for taking 500 semi-rotten dead birds to the butcher.

We are treading a tricky path and should take care what ammunition we put out there.

[kitchrat]

7 minutes ago, kitchrat said:

The "Urban Majority" have no idea about anything outside their tiny, social-media-led lives. They see no need to own guns (why would you need a Perazzi in London?)  and can be easily led to oppose them, fuelled by pictures of shooters "boasting" about a heap of dead "poor little birds" (just like those on my bird table), "slaughtered for fun" over a stubble field where they were "doing no harm".

We know the truth but Packham and his followers have no interest in the truth.

It's the same with electric cars. "Why would you need a vehicle with a range of more than 50 miles? Work is just round the corner. A pick up truck?? In the city?? OK for taking 500 semi-rotten dead birds to the butcher.

We are treading a tricky path and should take care what ammunition we put out there.

This is an example of what I mean - straight out of todays Daily Telegraph. I have no idea of the truth behind the story, in common with 99.99% of other readers, but it doesn't look good....

I like puffins, they are nice little chaps!

[Harnser]

I remember a few years back driving past the north London clay shooting grounds . Their big sign at the entrance was daubed with graffiti, “stop this cruel sport “  

harnser

[yickdaz]

1 hour ago, kitchrat said:

The "Urban Majority" have no idea about anything outside their tiny, social-media-led lives. They see no need to own guns (why would you need a Perazzi in London?)  and can be easily led to oppose them, fuelled by pictures of shooters "boasting" about a heap of dead "poor little birds" (just like those on my bird table), "slaughtered for fun" over a stubble field where they were "doing no harm".

We know the truth but Packham and his followers have no interest in the truth.

It's the same with electric cars. "Why would you need a vehicle with a range of more than 50 miles? Work is just round the corner. A pick up truck?? In the city?? OK for taking 500 semi-rotten dead birds to the butcher.

We are treading a tricky path and should take care what ammunition we put out there.

thing is its not boasting we are sharing pictures of our days out on a shooting forum, if you go on fishing forums people do exactly the same they share pictures of their catch, or car forums pictures of cars etc if we cant put pictures up on a shooting forum, all it becomes is debates and words 

[Westley]

I would disagree with the misconception that the 'General Public' are opposed to shooting. I am never shy about informing people that I go clay pigeon shooting and the general reply is "I've always wanted to do that".  I then give them all of the information they need and the details of the local shooting ground. I have also personally taken some to the ground and introduced them to the sport, using my gun (and cartridges !). It is unusual for me to go to that ground on a Sunday and not see someone that I introduced to shooting. So, they are out there, they just need guiding in the right direction.

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

I would disagree with the misconception that the 'General Public' are opposed to shooting. I am never shy about informing people that I go clay pigeon shooting and the general reply is "I've always wanted to do that".  I then give them all of the information they need and the details of the local shooting ground. I have also personally taken some to the ground and introduced them to the sport, using my gun (and cartridges !). It is unusual for me to go to that ground on a Sunday and not see someone that I introduced to shooting. So, they are out there, they just need guiding in the right direction.

This ^^^^*^^^

i do the same always offer to take them or arrange a have a go session 

they may or may not take up the sport of shooting but they have a more informative view imo 

its refreshing when they do take it up I also offer to take them beating and or picking up with me even standing with me on a formal driven day (appropriately dressed) 

I find giving a more in-depth insight into our sport is the best way 

honestly don’t think anyone I’ve ever taken  has had a bad day or not had a good time 

[kitchrat]

4 hours ago, yickdaz said:

thing is its not boasting we are sharing pictures of our days out on a shooting forum, if you go on fishing forums people do exactly the same they share pictures of their catch, or car forums pictures of cars etc if we cant put pictures up on a shooting forum, all it becomes is debates and words 

How you see things all depends on which side of the fence you are on

[kitchrat]

2 hours ago, Westley said:

I would disagree with the misconception that the 'General Public' are opposed to shooting. I am never shy about informing people that I go clay pigeon shooting and the general reply is "I've always wanted to do that".  I then give them all of the information they need and the details of the local shooting ground. I have also personally taken some to the ground and introduced them to the sport, using my gun (and cartridges !). It is unusual for me to go to that ground on a Sunday and not see someone that I introduced to shooting. So, they are out there, they just need guiding in the right direction.

But no furry/fluffy/feathered things get shot and killed at the clay ground, so it's "OK" (PC) to enjoy that. Take some townies to a 250-bird day and let them see Guns cutting down bird after bird or a game cart full of 250 little partridges and you might get a very different reaction. We need to be careful!!

[Old farrier]

24 minutes ago, kitchrat said:

But no furry/fluffy/feathered things get shot and killed at the clay ground, so it's "OK" (PC) to enjoy that. Take some townies to a 250-bird day and let them see Guns cutting down bird after bird or a game cart full of 250 little partridges and you might get a very different reaction. We need to be careful!!

That’s 30 birds to each gun 5 birds to each drive on a day 

have you ever shot a 250 bird day? And or taken anyone with you to gauge their reaction? 

I have and none have gone away from the day with anything negative to say 

we don’t need to be careful we need to get more people educated!!!

 

[Westley]

16 hours ago, kitchrat said:

But no furry/fluffy/feathered things get shot and killed at the clay ground, so it's "OK" (PC) to enjoy that. Take some townies to a 250-bird day and let them see Guns cutting down bird after bird or a game cart full of 250 little partridges and you might get a very different reaction. We need to be careful!!

I quite agree, BUT their perception alters, IF,  they have fired a gun at clay targets first.

I have introduced and taught several people from day 1 of their shooting careers, they have now gone on to enjoy game or wildfowl shooting of one form or another.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Westley

[kitchrat]

18 hours ago, Old farrier said:

That’s 30 birds to each gun 5 birds to each drive on a day 

have you ever shot a 250 bird day? And or taken anyone with you to gauge their reaction? 

I have and none have gone away from the day with anything negative to say 

we don’t need to be careful we need to get more people educated!!!

 

Yes, I've done a "big" day, 225 I think, but the bag was filled in 4 drives, not the 6 you calculate. Not a big difference but it meant that a greedy gun on a hot peg could shoot, say, 20+ birds on 1 drive. Sheer greed, not sport.

Anyway, I found there were so many birds that it was just like a simulated game clay shoot and quite honestly I didn't enjoy it much. Each to his own.

By the way, I have been shooting, on and off, for 50 years, rabbits, pigeons, game, wildfowl and clays so I'm not an anti, just warning that I think we are in danger of giving the Packham crowd ammunition to use in persuading the uninitiated to join them.

I do agree that clays are a good way to introduce shooters to our sport but it is very different in the eyes of outsiders.

[Old farrier]

2 minutes ago, kitchrat said:

Yes, I've done a "big" day, 225 I think, but the bag was filled in 4 drives, not the 6 you calculate. Not a big difference but it meant that a greedy gun on a hot peg could shoot, say, 20+ birds on 1 drive. Sheer greed, not sport.

Anyway, I found there were so many birds that it was just like a simulated game clay shoot and quite honestly I didn't enjoy it much. Each to his own.

By the way, I have been shooting, on and off, for 50 years, rabbits, pigeons, game, wildfowl and clays so I'm not an anti, just warning that I think we are in danger of giving the Packham crowd ammunition to use in persuading the uninitiated to join them.

I do agree that clays are a good way to introduce shooters to our sport but it is very different in the eyes of outsiders.

Thanks for your reply 

sadly your experience wasn’t a good one and a greedy gun spoiled it and the day for you 

i tend to shoot with like minded sportsmen and in the event of a greedy gun or unsportsmanlike behaviour they get sent home 

this is why I take people and stand with novice game shots to try and help them understand how it works and how to behave with respect for the game 

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Thanks for your reply 

sadly your experience wasn’t a good one and a greedy gun spoiled it and the day for you 

i tend to shoot with like minded sportsmen and in the event of a greedy gun or unsportsmanlike behaviour they get sent home 

this is why I take people and stand with novice game shots to try and help them understand how it works and how to behave with respect for the game 

EXACTLY  !

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Thanks for your reply 

sadly your experience wasn’t a good one and a greedy gun spoiled it and the day for you 

i tend to shoot with like minded sportsmen and in the event of a greedy gun or unsportsmanlike behaviour they get sent home 

this is why I take people and stand with novice game shots to try and help them understand how it works and how to behave with respect for the game 

I can see and hear what Kitchrat is saying , I have been lucky to attend, big , medium and small game shooting days over a period of 50 + years , I was once a guest gun on a 200 / 250 bird day , the game were put over the guns in a decent manner , then they done a so called duck drive , to an outsider I think this would have put them off shooting for life , there were 100s of duck that didn't want to leave where they were brought up , after a few shots and shouts some of them started to take off , all they done was circle round and losing a few of there number each time they circled round , then they started to head back to the lake and alas more were shot , this was all about numbers and very little respect were shown towards the duck , Needless to say I never did return .

On the other end of the scale , I go on another shoot where everyone muck in to make the day a day to remember , the guns are social to everyone , drinks and lunch are spent together , and the only birds shot are what the guns are happy to take on , all the low and lazy flyers are left for another day , the days bag hover around 100 head over six drives , if they have had a good morning they will only do one drive after dinner and again leave the birds well alone till another day , all the game is taken on the day and everyone go home happy .

So it's good to show new people to the sport to see what game shooting is all about , as long as the shoot is about traditions and not about shooting big numbers with no respect to the quarry . 

[motty]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

I can see and hear what Kitchrat is saying , I have been lucky to attend, big , medium and small game shooting days over a period of 50 + years , I was once a guest gun on a 200 / 250 bird day , the game were put over the guns in a decent manner , then they done a so called duck drive , to an outsider I think this would have put them off shooting for life , there were 100s of duck that didn't want to leave where they were brought up , after a few shots and shouts some of them started to take off , all they done was circle round and losing a few of there number each time they circled round , then they started to head back to the lake and alas more were shot , this was all about numbers and very little respect were shown towards the duck , Needless to say I never did return .

On the other end of the scale , I go on another shoot where everyone muck in to make the day a day to remember , the guns are social to everyone , drinks and lunch are spent together , and the only birds shot are what the guns are happy to take on , all the low and lazy flyers are left for another day , the days bag hover around 100 head over six drives , if they have had a good morning they will only do one drive after dinner and again leave the birds well alone till another day , all the game is taken on the day and everyone go home happy .

So it's good to show new people to the sport to see what game shooting is all about , as long as the shoot is about traditions and not about shooting big numbers with no respect to the quarry . 

I get what you are saying, but I think in most kinds of shooting, numbers play a big part. If they didn't, why bother having a 100 bird day?

You could easily pack up after each gun had shot a single pheasant.

I am not sure I follow the whole "respect" thing.  A team of guns on a 300 bird day could respect the quarry far more than a different team on a 100 bird day. Bigger numbers doesn't automatically mean less respect.

 

[marsh man]

10 hours ago, motty said:

I get what you are saying, but I think in most kinds of shooting, numbers play a big part. If they didn't, why bother having a 100 bird day?

You could easily pack up after each gun had shot a single pheasant.

I am not sure I follow the whole "respect" thing.  A team of guns on a 300 bird day could respect the quarry far more than a different team on a 100 bird day. Bigger numbers doesn't automatically mean less respect.

 

By having a well organised 100 bird day, most if not all the guns should get some shooting and at the end of the day they should have remembered what they have shot throughout of the day . whereas on a 300 bird day you would need to put a huge number of birds over the guns and the greedy guns will cut down every thing that present a shot and I have known many a time where a gun don't know how many they have shot on a drive let alone remember the good ones they have shot  , agreed there are teams who know what shooting is all about and will pick and choose what they shoot at , but I have seen more bad big days when it comes to respect, not only the game but there fellow guns as well than I have on so called small days where each member is part of a team . 

Don't get me wrong , there are some very good large scale shoots that can produce excellent days for both guns and sport ( Sandringham and Holkham ) near you are both first class shoots , but I think the days of really big bags of game shooting, with the recent problems of game dealers been paid to dispose of the large bags and the rumours of game being dumped are going to be clamped down on before it get's out of hand  .

[JDog]

Some of these posts are taking the thread off track. This is a pity as the original subject is an important one for pigeon shooters and the general public to understand.

[Old farrier]

10 minutes ago, JDog said:

Some of these posts are taking the thread off track. This is a pity as the original subject is an important one for pigeon shooters and the general public to understand.

Agree totally 

too shoot the large quantities of pigeon requires the farmers to have a serious pest problem 

to get in the place to do the necessary controls takes a lot of time effort and skill

 

[zipdog]

3 hours ago, marsh man said:

clamped down on before it get's out of hand  .

Who's going to do the clamping? Any government legislation will likely be knee jerk and, if anything like most laws, affect the little guys the most.

[kitchrat]

On ‎27‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 09:52, yickdaz said:

thing is its not boasting we are sharing pictures of our days out on a shooting forum, if you go on fishing forums people do exactly the same they share pictures of their catch, or car forums pictures of cars etc if we cant put pictures up on a shooting forum, all it becomes is debates and words 

 

One big difference here is that most fishermen practise "catch and release". Shoot and release doesn't really work!

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 09:57, Old farrier said:

Thanks for your reply 

sadly your experience wasn’t a good one and a greedy gun spoiled it and the day for you 

i tend to shoot with like minded sportsmen and in the event of a greedy gun or unsportsmanlike behaviour they get sent home 

this is why I take people and stand with novice game shots to try and help them understand how it works and how to behave with respect for the game 

Absolutely right. The shoots I enjoy most are farm shoots, 8 friends shoot maybe 80 birds over 6 or 7 drives, the Guns and the beaters take them all home, then the Guns go out for a dinner. Very sporting, no mass slaughter and a fantastic day for all.

[kitchrat]

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 13:26, marsh man said:

I can see and hear what Kitchrat is saying , I have been lucky to attend, big , medium and small game shooting days over a period of 50 + years , I was once a guest gun on a 200 / 250 bird day , the game were put over the guns in a decent manner , then they done a so called duck drive , to an outsider I think this would have put them off shooting for life , there were 100s of duck that didn't want to leave where they were brought up , after a few shots and shouts some of them started to take off , all they done was circle round and losing a few of there number each time they circled round , then they started to head back to the lake and alas more were shot , this was all about numbers and very little respect were shown towards the duck , Needless to say I never did return .

On the other end of the scale , I go on another shoot where everyone muck in to make the day a day to remember , the guns are social to everyone , drinks and lunch are spent together , and the only birds shot are what the guns are happy to take on , all the low and lazy flyers are left for another day , the days bag hover around 100 head over six drives , if they have had a good morning they will only do one drive after dinner and again leave the birds well alone till another day , all the game is taken on the day and everyone go home happy .

So it's good to show new people to the sport to see what game shooting is all about , as long as the shoot is about traditions and not about shooting big numbers with no respect to the quarry . 

100% agree. Some of these duck "drives" are an insult to the word "SPORT" and are just bag-fillers for the greedy, poor shots from the city. Many of these "Guns" don't even take a brace of oven ready birds home from a 200+ day. They are just there to take a photo of a full game cart and send it to their 1100 "friends" on Facebook.

Just what Packham could use against us...

Edited July 29, 2019 by kitchrat
spelling mistake!

[kitchrat]

11 hours ago, JDog said:

Some of these posts are taking the thread off track. This is a pity as the original subject is an important one for pigeon shooters and the general public to understand.

Sorry, my fault! However, I do think that both we and game shooters shoot for sport really (although we can justify our "sport" by using the crop protection argument) and this is where the problem lies. We enjoy shooting live birds and many of the general, urban public find this, or can be led to find it, abhorrent.

The lower we keep our profile, the longer we will be able to carry on.

[yickdaz]

1 hour ago, kitchrat said:

 

One big difference here is that most fishermen practise "catch and release". Shoot and release doesn't really work!

 

I know that, but the principle is the same they take a pic of what they catch we take a pic of what we shoot 

[motty]

2 hours ago, kitchrat said:

Sorry, my fault! However, I do think that both we and game shooters shoot for sport really (although we can justify our "sport" by using the crop protection argument) and this is where the problem lies. We enjoy shooting live birds and many of the general, urban public find this, or can be led to find it, abhorrent.

The lower we keep our profile, the longer we will be able to carry on.

Best we all stop posting on shooting sites, then!