mick miller Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Not sure if everyone has seen the Fieldsports Britain interview with Mark Avery, but it was enlightening. I don't understand what is to fear from trying to meet the 'other side' and, publicly, counter some of their arguments? Charlie may be, or may not be your cup of tea (I quite like the guy), but you struggle to argue against the principle of exposing the lies, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 45 minutes ago, mick miller said: Not sure if everyone has seen the Fieldsports Britain interview with Mark Avery, but it was enlightening. I don't understand what is to fear from trying to meet the 'other side' and, publicly, counter some of their arguments? Charlie may be, or may not be your cup of tea (I quite like the guy), but you struggle to argue against the principle of exposing the lies, surely? Exactly Mick!!! Nothing!! Shame! Big opportunity missed! Thanks for posting! NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Whilst I would have enjoyed watching these idiots trying to defend their allegation on camera (and hopefully later on social media) being questioned by people who know more about conservation and the wildlife in our countryside, than these three put together.....the flip side is someone physically assaulting one (or all) of them at the gamefair....these protectionists would undoubtedly try to provoke such a response and have a camera operator handy to film it!.....that would be a massive own goal for shooting! So on balance, I think their non-appearance, is probably the best option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 Photo opportunity for them is all. provoke some people, get it on camera and claim the moral high ground, more air time =more money for crowd funding. There needs to be a few banners about the area proclaiming the the good work in moor management by shooting and conservation orgs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 If the likes of GWCT, BASC and the CA are afraid to confront the likes of Avery, Packham and Tiernan as CJ states, then we've lost. A golden opportunity, lost. Unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 My thoughts exactly, sunlight is the best disinfectant in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 24, 2019 Report Share Posted July 24, 2019 All the time in the world for Charlie. What a loss for shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Scully said: If the likes of GWCT, BASC and the CA are afraid to confront the likes of Avery, Packham and Tiernan as CJ states, then we've lost. A golden opportunity, lost. Unbelievable. Shooting is lost, unless we can prove them wrong. they hold most of the aces as far as the general public is concerned, If/when they get their way the biggest looser will be the very nature the profess to care about.. without shooting many landowners will not have the desire to plant agri-environment crops, cover crops, trees, wetland creation. set aside, etc etc. goodbye songbirds. Moors will be re-wild-----fires. goodbye waders... I actually despair for the future of the countryside if these eco-vandals get their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Think it's worth remembering with Packham trying to take the moral high ground on this decision that he refused to have a basc representative alongside hin when he did his GMTV interview. He doesn't do balanced debates when it suits him, so he can't moan when the boots on the other foot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Novice said: Think it's worth remembering with Packham trying to take the moral high ground on this decision that he refused to have a basc representative alongside hin when he did his GMTV interview. He doesn't do balanced debates when it suits him, so he can't moan when the boots on the other foot... I don’t think he was moaning, but think of the next time he, Avery or the other is interviewed. Piers Morgan: ‘ I hear you were banned from the CLA by the CA, BASC and the GWCT Mr ( name of applicable person) can you tell us why?’ Relevant person, with a little smirk. ‘Because they’re running scared Piers.They know they can’t justify what they do, and are terrified of being shown up for what they are in the eyes of the general public.’ Massive own goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Well, Chris is now all over social media declaring that the shooting community is too afraiid to discuss the issues. Winning more support. Well done on a massive own goal as predicted. This is what you get when you use your bum for a hat. Edited July 25, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Charlie Jacoby, of Fieldsports TV, has said he believes that Chris Packham is involved in a Panorama programme called something like ‘Slaughter on the Grouse Moors’. To that end, it’s safe to assume Packham was coming to the Game Fair for propaganda purposes, not for balanced debate. People should perhaps ask themselves why Packham and his agent stopped BASC taking part in a recent debate within the controlled confines of the Good Morning Britain TV studios but was willing to march into the Game Fair arena this weekend. Conor O'Gorman Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Why not continue with the interview off site in that instance then? A more controlled environment where the same questions can be asked and the answers recorded, but without the 'exposure' by attending the Fair and any attendant security or publicity risks? The only way to counter these individuals is to expose their agendas with questioning, as Chris himself has demonstrated with his little rant about the corruption in the Maltese government, you do not have to poke him very much to expose the thread by which the whole lot can be easily, and publicly, unravelled. Charlie has already conducted a great interview with Mark Avery, something (yet again) BASC is on the back foot with it seems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 55 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Charlie Jacoby, of Fieldsports TV, has said he believes that Chris Packham is involved in a Panorama programme called something like ‘Slaughter on the Grouse Moors’. To that end, it’s safe to assume Packham was coming to the Game Fair for propaganda purposes, not for balanced debate. People should perhaps ask themselves why Packham and his agent stopped BASC taking part in a recent debate within the controlled confines of the Good Morning Britain TV studios but was willing to march into the Game Fair arena this weekend. Conor O'Gorman Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC Thats fair enough then Conor! So if it does go out i guess it will be another one sided publicity stunt in there favour with no representation from shooting? Unless you know different? Do you BASC etc think charlie/fieldsports channel was wrong to do interview/debate with Avery and Tiernan? A lot in shooting thought it was good and balanced debate with both! Would like to see someone tackle/ debate with Packham tho don't think he can and had no intention of actually going through with it as like you say he hasn't any other time! Where his people/panorama intending to film it also? Wasn't there another panorama prog made on game shooting a while back that never got aired? NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 hours ago, mick miller said: Well, Chris is now all over social media declaring that the shooting community is too afraiid to discuss the issues. Winning more support. Well done on a massive own goal as predicted. This is what you get when you use your bum for a hat. What did i say? It's not rocket science is it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Charlie Jacoby, of Fieldsports TV, has said he believes that Chris Packham is involved in a Panorama programme called something like ‘Slaughter on the Grouse Moors’. To that end, it’s safe to assume Packham was coming to the Game Fair for propaganda purposes, not for balanced debate. People should perhaps ask themselves why Packham and his agent stopped BASC taking part in a recent debate within the controlled confines of the Good Morning Britain TV studios but was willing to march into the Game Fair arena this weekend. Conor O'Gorman Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC Seriously? Of course it was for propaganda! The antis thrive on propaganda, that's what its all about. Are we to believe that BASC etal are afraid to confront Packham, Avery and whats face because of the chance they will use it as propaganda? What about the massive propaganda boost they have just been handed by being effectively banned from the CLA by two of our biggest shooting ( nearly put 'representatives'....what was I thinking! ) organisations. What about the massive missed opportunity to play them at their own game and meet propaganda with facts? Is it me? Further, I did ask ITV why Packham stopped BASC taking part in a recent debate with GMB, and posted the emailed reply on this forum. There was never any mention of Packhams agent in that reply, so if you know different then why isn't it in the public domain? Just what exactly is that 'media' facility of yours used for? Edited July 25, 2019 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Quote Just what exactly is that 'media' facility of yours used for? I think they store the branded clothing in there. Edited July 25, 2019 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just now, mick miller said: I think they store the branded clothing in there. Thanks, I did wonder. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: People should perhaps ask themselves why Packham and his agent stopped BASC taking part in a recent debate within the controlled confines of the Good Morning Britain TV studios AS a long time subscriber to BASC, rather than us asking ourselves Conor, can we ask you? As in, what official response did you give, and what your plans are for addressing this growing MSN and Social Media carbuncle? Because, if BASC haven't got an effective battle plan, then what's the point of my yearly subscription? I can assure you, I'm not trying to be provocative for the sake of it. I'm genuinely concerned when a group of appointed professionals can be publicly thrashed by a few flower pot men👎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Charlie Jacoby, of Fieldsports TV, has said he believes that Chris Packham is involved in a Panorama programme called something like ‘Slaughter on the Grouse Moors’. To that end, it’s safe to assume Packham was coming to the Game Fair for propaganda purposes, not for balanced debate. People should perhaps ask themselves why Packham and his agent stopped BASC taking part in a recent debate within the controlled confines of the Good Morning Britain TV studios but was willing to march into the Game Fair arena this weekend. Conor O'Gorman Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC I agree that packham definitely did pull this so that BASC did not get a look in, I've worked closely with BASC over the last few years. I see the good, and I also see why people may be a little hacked off with what looks like a lack of action over the GL etc. Would BASC appear on fieldsports Britain with Charlie and Mr Packham maybe, to have the discussion. Although this and indeed the game fair would just be preaching to the converted. Unless we get it on mainstream media, all these discussions are just inward facing at a group already Pro shooting. This needs to be taken to the general public. I know packham is out to stop shooting, I know he will use any tactic possible, including his podium that is the BBC. Half the people in the office I work in probably don't give two hoots about it, and just pop to tesco for a vac pac chicken... Get the public onside, win the argument. Let packham carry on, lose it all????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylag Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 .They thought of Packham and his other directors of WJ having a discussion with shooting organisations on a filmed stage just does not compute.The knowledge that our organisations can bring to the table would blow them out of the water,it would never happen.Why do you think he refused to discuss the general licences with Dan Reynolds the BASC director for England on the breakfast programme.,afraid of loosing the argument in the public domain.The discussions at the Game Fair would have been very interesting .We will never know if he could hold it together long enough in such a heated environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Here you go: https://markavery.info/2019/07/24/game-shooting-industry-sinks-deeper-and-deeper/ Played right into the hands of the antis; Packham, Avery etc must be laughing their heads off. Gordon Bennett! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Why don't our representative organisations publicly challenge him to a recorded and filmed debate, in order to defend/substantiate his allegations? Could not the challenge be heavily publicised on social media, through adverts in newspapers, press releases and through every media available to us....with the undertaking that unedited copies of the debate would be provided to both sides? If he declines, what is he afraid of? If he agrees, surely we have plenty of advocates who could destroy him and discredit his claims, inferences and allegations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reidler Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Why don't our representative organisations publicly challenge him to a recorded and filmed debate, in order to defend/substantiate his allegations? Could not the challenge be heavily publicised on social media, through adverts in newspapers, press releases and through every media available to us....with the undertaking that unedited copies of the debate would be provided to both sides? If he declines, what is he afraid of? If he agrees, surely we have plenty of advocates who could destroy him and discredit his claims, inferences and allegations? This. The game fair debate would've turned into a farce, probably have projectiles aimed at him from the crowd and he'd of been a victim, furthering his cause. A open debate, on neutral ground broadcast live on social media would be the best bet in my opinion with experts from our organisations representing the shooting community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: Why don't our representative organisations publicly challenge him to a recorded and filmed debate, in order to defend/substantiate his allegations? Could not the challenge be heavily publicised on social media, through adverts in newspapers, press releases and through every media available to us....with the undertaking that unedited copies of the debate would be provided to both sides? If he declines, what is he afraid of? If he agrees, surely we have plenty of advocates who could destroy him and discredit his claims, inferences and allegations? Seemingly not. 29 minutes ago, reidler said: This. The game fair debate would've turned into a farce, probably have projectiles aimed at him from the crowd and he'd of been a victim, furthering his cause. A open debate, on neutral ground broadcast live on social media would be the best bet in my opinion with experts from our organisations representing the shooting community. I doubt it. Think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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